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Just curious, what are your opinions about the best low light scopes available. Would most of you opt for something with a large objective from Zeiss, S&B or Swarovski?
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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In my night-time tests on a black-and-white chart, which I've been making for at least a decade now, several scopes have tied for the highest brightness rating of 8. The test is set up to remove objective size from the factors.
The 8's used to be limited to S&B, Leica, Swarovski and Zeiss, but in recent years Leupold VX-6's also qualified. I should also point out that not every Leica, Swarovski or Zeiss has rated an 8, just the top-end scopes. All S&B's have rated 8.
Might also mention that a scope's optical brightness is far from the only factor in the ability to aim in dim light. The reticle's perhaps more important.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Ranger
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Don't forget how important headlights are in the equation...
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Campfire Tracker
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In my night-time tests on a black-and-white chart, which I've been making for at least a decade now, several scopes have tied for the highest brightness rating of 8. The test is set up to remove objective size from the factors.
How do you eliminate objective size from the factors affecting brightness? I can see equalizing the objective size where possible, but removal? Some of those Zeiss monsters are for all intents and purposes a spotting scope with an included reticle.
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Campfire Tracker
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I have or have owned most alpha glass scopes; but I have a fixed Swarovski PF8x56 that is the best low light scope I have looked through.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Slidellkid,
My favorite two low light scopes are a Swarovski z5 5-25X52 BT; which is for sale. The other is a VX-6 5-24X52; which is not for sale.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Campfire Outfitter
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In my night-time tests on a black-and-white chart, which I've been making for at least a decade now, several scopes have tied for the highest brightness rating of 8. The test is set up to remove objective size from the factors.
How do you eliminate objective size from the factors affecting brightness? I can see equalizing the objective size where possible, but removal? Some of those Zeiss monsters are for all intents and purposes a spotting scope with an included reticle. I can't speak for MILES58; but, I speculate, to be fair, one has to equalize the criteria by utilization of identical exit pupils. Thus a 50mm objective at 10 power (exit pupil of 5) could be fairly evaluated agains a 40mm objective at 8 power (exit pupil of 5). This is just my speculation as to what is meant by removal of objective size from the factors. I may be wrong. If you don't believe me, just ask the homunculus from Alaska.
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“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Miles,
I set them all on 6x, and since it's rare to find a variable that doesn't include 6x with less than 36mm objective. Setting the scopes on 6x results in an exit pupil of at least 6mm, and usually larger. Supposedly the "average" human eye's pupil expands to 7mm in darkness, but I've found 6mm more like it in any sort of hunting light, so a 6mm exit pupil provides all the light our eye can use.
Magnification also affects perceived brightness, essentially due to placing the object closer to the shooter, but I designed the test to be as close as possible to a pure comparison of optical quality.
The black and white chart also eliminates color from the equation, making the test just for brightness and sharpness. Individual perception of color varies, often considerably, and can make a specific scope appear brighter to one person than another.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Tracker
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JB,
Can you post up any prior threads about your scope testing and which scopes recieved an "8".
How do the Meopta's compare to the Alpha scopes?
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Might also mention that a scope's optical brightness is far from the only factor in the ability to aim in dim light. The reticle's perhaps more important.
Amen from the back row.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Campfire Tracker
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Might also mention that a scope's optical brightness is far from the only factor in the ability to aim in dim light. The reticle's perhaps more important.
Amen from the back row. I agree with that as well. Most of my shooting is about 15 minutes before pitch black and almost always in brush on a black target (pig). I'm still trying to decide if I like the heavy duplex on my 1.5-5 VX3, but I will say that an illuminated dot on its lowest setting seems to work very, very well. As do headlights, as Shrapnel says. 
"An archer sees how far he can be from a target and still hit it, a bowhunter sees how close he can get before he shoots." It is certainly easy to use that same line of thinking with firearms. -- Unknown
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I shot many a hog well after legal shooting light for native game animals using a Trijicon 2.5x10x56 w/ the amber dot. It worked better than anything tried by myself or the guys I hunted with except for night vision. Heavy and clunky, forced a higher mounting height.
David
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Campfire Ranger
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It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Campfire Tracker
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I have a VXR 3-9 with Firedot 4 on a MRC 7x57. On the lowest setting, that little red dot is the ticket. I haven't looked through a VX6...I'm afraid if I did I'd have to have one.
"An archer sees how far he can be from a target and still hit it, a bowhunter sees how close he can get before he shoots." It is certainly easy to use that same line of thinking with firearms. -- Unknown
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Campfire Regular
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Miles,
I set them all on 6x, and since it's rare to find a variable that doesn't include 6x with less than 36mm objective. Setting the scopes on 6x results in an exit pupil of at least 6mm, and usually larger. Supposedly the "average" human eye's pupil expands to 7mm in darkness, but I've found 6mm more like it in any sort of hunting light, so a 6mm exit pupil provides all the light our eye can use.
Magnification also affects perceived brightness, essentially due to placing the object closer to the shooter, but I designed the test to be as close as possible to a pure comparison of optical quality.
The black and white chart also eliminates color from the equation, making the test just for brightness and sharpness. Individual perception of color varies, often considerably, and can make a specific scope appear brighter to one person than another. Hi JB What actual parameters are you testing? "Sharpness" I'm guessing is resolving lines, or something similar, is that right? What about "brightness"? How do you measure that? Have you done any ranking of scopes measured at the maximum magnification they can reach? Or the maximum at which they still have at least 6mm exit pupil? It'd be interesting to have some objective data showing not only how how various scopes compare with each other at 6x, but also how they compare with, say 4x scopes, 8x and variables.
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Campfire Regular
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Friendly suggestion MD.
Try placing a rack of antlers under a tree in the shadows and then check them as the sun goes down. Brown antlers in the shadows are the issue that really matters, at least where and what I hunt, and is a slightly different issue of perception than black and white resolution. Would be interesting to see if there is any difference between that and the B&W chart.
Also, your Gack book is very enjoyable. Lots of interesting tidbits. Well named, and well done.
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Campfire Outfitter
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I have a S&B Klassic 3-12x42. It is truly a good low light scope. Have never owned a high $ Zeiss or Swarovski. I'm not a scope snob but would like to challenge every one to save and buy at least 1 alpha glass in their lifetime. The younger you do it...the better. powdr
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Campfire Tracker
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John,
It makes sense to objectify the tests i that manner. But... it leaves out so much.
The B/W only can make a large difference in what sense your brain makes of what your eyes provide. Alone, that would be of necessity quite subjective just due to eye differences in people.
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Campfire Tracker
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I have or have owned most alpha glass scopes; but I have a fixed Swarovski PF8x56 that is the best low light scope I have looked through. John, My presumption is that this fixed power scope performs well in low light is the fact that; in addition to it being a quality product, it has fewer elements than a variable. Would this be a valid observation? Thanks
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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powdr I have a S&B Klassic 3-12x42. It is truly a good low light scope. Have never owned a high $ Zeiss or Swarovski. I'm not a scope snob but would like to challenge every one to save and buy at least 1 alpha glass in their lifetime. The younger you do it...the better. powdr Would you consider the VX-6 or the Nightforce NXS as alpha glass?
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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