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Didn't want to derail the 40 S&W thread  With some mention of the 357 Sig in the other thread, I figured it should have it's own discussion. So looking at ballistic charts, a +p 9mm will push 124's ~1250 fps and 147's ~1100 fps. The 357 Sig will push 124's ~1450 fps and 147's ~1250 fps. I'm curious how the added velocity fixes any of the 9mm's short comings?
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I thought i have seen it written that a steady diet of +p ammo is supposed to be hard on some platforms. Where has the 357 is designed to work in a 40 cal platform. Just sayin.
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Campfire Ranger
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I'm curious how the added velocity fixes any of the 9mm's short comings?
Better barrier penetration, performance in tissue isn't tremendously different. I personally see it as a solution to a non-existent problem.
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Campfire Ranger
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My preference for practice loads is to back off a few tenths to a 1/2 gr from a max std pressure charge so using +p for carry isn't an issue on the life of the platform.
Seems like a rifle is a better option for barrier penetration. Not to mention with the Sig's short neck, it seems like it's really designed for the 124's, not the 147's. which negates the barrier penetration argument.
Last edited by 458 Lott; 11/24/15.
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Campfire Tracker
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I have a question. If you all feel like this on the 357 Sig. then how do you fell about the 9X25 Dillon? Flame material on!! Cheers NC
don't judge until you have walked a mile in other persons' moccasins'
SUM QUOD SUM........HOMINEM TE ESSE MEMENTO
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Campfire Ranger
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I wouldn't mind and plan on sometime to get a 357 barrel for my G27. But I might go with the 4 inch model barrel.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I’m not a competitive handgun shooter so I don’t need to jack up a 9X19 or come up with some new round to meet some arbitrary power level. For my use and my thinking the 9X19 with 124’s at ~1200 fps achieve everything I want from an autoloading pistol. The plus is plentiful and cheap brass as well as lots of excellent pistols and that can be achieved with lots of different powders.
If I want more performance from a 35 handgun then it’s the 357 magnum with 180 or 200 gr cast at 1300 fps. I don’t see that happening in an autoloading handgun unless it’s chambered for the 357 and then it’s some sort of Dessert Eagle behemoth.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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I'm about to pull the trigger on one, well at least getting a barrel for my Glock 23. I figure it's a cheap way to try one out.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Campfire Outfitter
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My daily carry gun now is a Glock 32 and I couldn't be happier with it or the .357 Sig. Its powerful, has plenty of capacity, and is small enough to carry easily but still shoot well.
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Campfire Ranger
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At one point the .357 mag revolver load, with a 125 JHP at 1450 fps, was considered (or maybe hyped is a better word) as the ultimate manstopping load for a handgun. When it first came out the .357 Sig was supposed to match that specs, and work in a 9mm framed autoloader. I think just about everyone thought it met that goal pretty well, and several large agencies adopted it. Of course, the .38 Super and the 9x23 are also hard on its heels, but few agencies adopted them. Since then the .357 mag is loaded down, and bullets in the 9x19 have gotten better. A 9mm +P also works very well, costs less, kicks less, and fits more rounds in the magazine. Never loaded the .357 Sig, but did work with its big brother the .400 Corbon. Be careful loading those pistol cartridges with extra short necks - it can be hard to keep bullets from setting back in feeding, which could cause a Kb. If I was convinced I need more velocity from a 9mm pistol I'd go with a Super or a 9x23. Or even a 9x25 
Last edited by tex_n_cal; 11/24/15. Reason: add info
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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yes, you can buy hot 9mm ammo that pushes it way up there, at a cost. I have some that says 20% or 30% over saami spec something like that. So you are pushing the pistol at its upper limits at 9mm. Or you buy the sig, where is, was designed to operate.
one big difference i think, is with the sig round, you don't worry much about holdover at distance you point it, it goes there.
barrier penetration is another thing, and some believe speed kills.
the bullet is slightly different than a 9mm designed projectile too. Which one would take account of in reloading.
I think personally of the .357sig as being in some ways similar to a .38super.
I bought a barsto barrel years ago as a drop in for a glock 23, and have shot the snot out of it.
the .357sig does mimic the 125grain .357 magnum load, but smaller cartridge, lot more mag capacity, and can fit in smaller guns. My glock in .357, the baby glock, is like have better than two cylinders full of 357magnum. If i put a 17round mag in it, thats like a full .357mag revolver and two speed loaders.
Last edited by RoninPhx; 11/24/15.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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If I want more performance from a 35 handgun then it’s the 357 magnum with 180 or 200 gr cast at 1300 fps. I don’t see that happening in an autoloading handgun unless it’s chambered for the 357 and then it’s some sort of Dessert Eagle behemoth.
A 10mm fills that role perfectly.
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Campfire Ranger
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The agency I worked for adopted the 357 Sig in glock 31 pistols as a duty firearm about my two years before I left
The 125 grain Gold dot is a great round.
A couple of incidents I remember were both critters, but two different circumstances.
The first involved a horse struck by a tractor trailer, the animal laid almost in the center of the road, and With houses and rubberneckers I decided not to risk a ricochet by shooting the animal in the head, so I fired a double tap through the ribs right behind the shoulder.
Upon rolling the animal over to remove it from the roadway we found both slugs exited the off side and embedded into the blacktop
The second was a road hit whitetail, that was thrashing about in a marshy area, and I wasn't wading out to shoot it.
I used the hood of my Tahoe as a rest and made and head shot at and bout 70 yards.dispatching the deer.
That shot was taken with a Sig P226
I'd like to see the 9mm boys do that.
Our Game commission switched to the 357 Sig from Smith 586 revolvers, every one I talk to says they are having great results on Black bear with it
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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My daily carry gun now is a Glock 32 and I couldn't be happier with it or the .357 Sig. Its powerful, has plenty of capacity, and is small enough to carry easily but still shoot well. Me too. I love my Glock 32 in 357 sig caliber.
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston
Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Campfire Kahuna
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I'd like to try one too. Not much of a pistol shooter but wife and I are currently taking some training courses. Learning alot. Shooting the Super for the course. ![[Linked Image]](http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z371/Weather223/38Super004_zps4d6c5b20.jpg)
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An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
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I really like my Glock 32. Hasn't kaboomed with reloads yet, guess I'll keep living dangerously!
It's my only CCW and I feel comfortable with it. I'd feel comfortable with a 9mm as well but I like the idea of a little more velocity. I'm a believer in the idea of more hydrostatic shock.
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Campfire Outfitter
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So, a handgun round that will plow through a horse and keep going is a good thing? Maybe not if you are on the other side of the horse.
Let's Go Brandon! FJB
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Campfire Outfitter
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Not if you want to shoot the horse and the guy on the other side of the horse.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I carry a 31 on most days or a Khar CW-45.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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So, a handgun round that will plow through a horse and keep going is a good thing? Maybe not if you are on the other side of the horse.
in some reading i seem to remember when they were working up the .45acp round as basically a replacement to the .45colt, one of the thoughts was it had to be capable of stopping a horse. Still in the days of the calvary. And there isn't a lot of difference between a 230grain .45acp, and the old 250grain .45colt military round, both at similar velocities. My baby glock in 357sig was used to pop a deer. A woman shot a mulie as i was watching from a distance. Basically shot it in the butt deer goes down laying there and her family congradulating her for getting the deer. a6mm rifle by the way. I walked over, looked at the deer and said you know that deer ain't dead. didn't want to lite off a rifle round at point blank range, so the baby glock was used. Not much of a test, right behind the ear it did go through, instant lites out.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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Campfire Ranger
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Not if you want to shoot the horse and the guy on the other side of the horse. actually that is kind of important in a way to me. I like the capability to penetrate a car/truck door. Somebody took a shot years ago at me in my s10blazer, bullet impacted right above the driver side door latch, and inch or two down from the window. Did not penetrate the door. A few inches higher and it would have got me. It was good the guy wasn't using the right gun or round.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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Campfire Ranger
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Two of the reasons we switched to the Sig over the 45 was barrier penetration, and flatter trajectory.
Our area was very rural, and the chances were just as good about us having to engage someone at longer distances that the typical 7-10 feet.
I've talked to people from several agencies who issue the Sig round and none of them are unhappy with it, usually most really like it, and none have complained of the supposed issues it has that Kevin Gibson keeps bringing up,
IE: increased muzzle flash/blast, increased recoil
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Campfire Ranger
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a DPS Trooper told me a few years ago that barrier penetration was a factor in their choice.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Why would anyone shoot at person more than 10 feet away? You could just run away...
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Campfire Outfitter
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Why would anyone shoot at person more than 10 feet away? You could just run away... Hmm? If they are pointing a gun at you , then you likely will not outrun the bullets, unless of course you are Superman, but then why would you run?
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Campfire Outfitter
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Now we're talking! 
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Campfire Ranger
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I keep threatening to do it, and one of these days, I'm going to buy a 357 Sig barrel for my G35.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Why would anyone shoot at person more than 10 feet away? You could just run away... Hmm? If they are pointing a gun at you , then you likely will not outrun the bullets, unless of course you are Superman, but then why would you run? But so many on the Campfire say cops shouldn't shoot people that are out of arms reach.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Campfire Ranger
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Not all bad guys are 140 and skinny as a rail. One might have punch through heavy clothing and a foot of fat.
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Campfire Ranger
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The agency I worked for adopted the 357 Sig in glock 31 pistols as a duty firearm about my two years before I left
The 125 grain Gold dot is a great round.
A couple of incidents I remember were both critters, but two different circumstances.
The first involved a horse struck by a tractor trailer, the animal laid almost in the center of the road, and With houses and rubberneckers I decided not to risk a ricochet by shooting the animal in the head, so I fired a double tap through the ribs right behind the shoulder.
Upon rolling the animal over to remove it from the roadway we found both slugs exited the off side and embedded into the blacktop
The second was a road hit whitetail, that was thrashing about in a marshy area, and I wasn't wading out to shoot it.
I used the hood of my Tahoe as a rest and made and head shot at and bout 70 yards.dispatching the deer.
That shot was taken with a Sig P226
I'd like to see the 9mm boys do that.
Our Game commission switched to the 357 Sig from Smith 586 revolvers, every one I talk to says they are having great results on Black bear with it
I'm a civilian and haven't taken any game with the 357 Sig but can crunch melon sized snow clumps at a hundred yards with my P226 after a sighter or two with very little hold-over it seems. This is with the 124-gr loads. That's pretty flat for a low recoiling semi-auto cartridge.
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Campfire Ranger
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George coming from carrying a 45 with 230 Grain Gold Dots, it's a freaking laser beam
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Campfire Ranger
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Not all bad guys are 140 and skinny as a rail. One might have punch through heavy clothing and a foot of fat. number of years ago they use to show this training video where some state trooper stops a really big fat guy in the south. trooper dumped a cylinder full of .357mag in the guy, but not putting him down. black guy fires i think a .25acp hitting trooper in the carotid artery in the neck, he died.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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Campfire Tracker
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....The 357 Sig will push 124's ~1450 fps and 147's ~1250 fps.
The 1450 is pretty ambitious as most chronograph tests I've seen show top MV at about 1350 fps for the 124s in the 357 SIG case. Very good velocity from the +/- 4" barrels the 357 SIG is usually shot from for LE or SD purposes. To get to 1450 fps - duplicating the 4" 125 gn. 357 Mag load - it takes a 9x23 class cartridge, usually in a 5" pistol at factory spec pressure, about 55K psi. We may be splitting hairs as the SIG is a very capable round that provides very significant penetration and consistently adequate wounding capability. I don't carry the 357 SIG but know at least one LEO who carries it off-duty and having seem him shoot his G-23, it is a very effective choice.
Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty of give me death! P. Henry
Deus vult!
Rhodesians all now
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I've had a 40 S&W BHP rebarreled to 357 SIG. Just got it back from the gunsmith. Haven't shot it yet.
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I, too, need to get a .357 bbl for my G35, but awhile back bought a G32 OEM bbl and dropped it into my ol' issued G27 (which I bought when we switched to 23s).Packs easily and shoots to point of aim at 15 yards. [img:left] ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/elrata/image_zps562e1da2.jpg) [/img]
�When in doubt, I whip it out.� Uncle Ted ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/elrata/imagejpg1_zps585f4bbf.jpg)
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Campfire Ranger
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....The 357 Sig will push 124's ~1450 fps and 147's ~1250 fps.
The 1450 is pretty ambitious as most chronograph tests I've seen show top MV at about 1350 fps for the 124s in the 357 SIG case. Very good velocity from the +/- 4" barrels the 357 SIG is usually shot from for LE or SD purposes. To get to 1450 fps - duplicating the 4" 125 gn. 357 Mag load - it takes a 9x23 class cartridge, usually in a 5" pistol at factory spec pressure, about 55K psi. We may be splitting hairs as the SIG is a very capable round that provides very significant penetration and consistently adequate wounding capability. I don't carry the 357 SIG but know at least one LEO who carries it off-duty and having seem him shoot his G-23, it is a very effective choice. The Buff Bore Hvy 357 Sig 125-grain is listed at 1450 fps. I haven't shot then through the lie-detector yet to see if this is truth in advertisement or wishful thinking.
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Campfire Outfitter
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I won't speak to velocity, but here's what I KNOW based on experience:
A 125 gr. Gold Dot will shoot POA/POI through a windshield....... Various 9mm (to include +P), .40 and .45 "duty" ammo, not so much.
The same round did much better shooting into (through) vehicle panels.
The "flash" issue is bullchiit.
George
�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
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Campfire Ranger
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The same round did much better shooting into (through) vehicle panels.
That has always been a big thing to me.
Plus the windshield.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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Campfire Ranger
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I always as a joke said the true test is penetrating the car door, three fat (bleeps) and going out the other side.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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Campfire Ranger
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I had a friend of mine stop a guy years ago when everybody was packing smith model 19's. The guy stopped turned around and dumped a hi cap magazine of 9's through the windshield of the patrol car. Gordon bought a bulldog as a backup the next weekend.
I grew up in the revolver era, and still feel comfortable with them to some extent.
Having said that, I don't think anyone ever said they had too much capacity in those situations. A belt fed gun would be nice.
The other choice is something like a glock where you can put hi cap mags through it, using that .357sig. To me, it's like having the model 19 without having to go to speed loaders.
Sometimes those confrontations go down real quick.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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as to the penetration thing, friend of mine use to keep a colt 1911 10mm in the glove compartment of the patrol car. And a 375H&Hmagnum with solids in the trunk. Some of the areas patroled houses were made out of railroad ties.
People in them laughed at 9's when told to come out. Didn't take much to convince them that was not good.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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....The 357 Sig will push 124's ~1450 fps and 147's ~1250 fps.
The 1450 is pretty ambitious as most chronograph tests I've seen show top MV at about 1350 fps for the 124s in the 357 SIG case. Very good velocity from the +/- 4" barrels the 357 SIG is usually shot from for LE or SD purposes. Hodgdon data with 124s gives 1450 fps from my Glock 32...
Too close for irons, switching to scope...
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I suppose chicken shiittts like you would run. No guts to stand your ground. Just bully people on social media. Coward!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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The 357 Sig is one of my favorite round and it doesn't get any better for a self-defense round. I was going to buy a Glock 32, but the Wolf barrel in my 23 is all you can ask for and groups better than the factory Glock barrel. I also have the Sig P239 in 357 Sig
A Doe walks out of the woods today and says, that is the last time I'm going to do that for Two Bucks.
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I'm about to pull the trigger on one, well at least getting a barrel for my Glock 23. I figure it's a cheap way to try one out. I just pulled the trigger on one - went with the Sig P320c. Ammo and loading components should be here in a couple of days.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Campfire Tracker
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Davidson's Gallery of Guns / Gun Genie was the enabler - made it way too easy  A friend's been telling me how great they are and he was right - online deposit Monday night, they shipped Tuesday and I paid the balance on pickup at LGS on Thursday. The fact they were running a sale with tritium night sights for under $500 pushed me over the edge... Online rumors of ammo / brass cost had me hesitating, but five minutes of Google-fu debunked that.
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Campfire Ranger
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Scott, CDNN has Sig P226 Trade ins in 40 for 399, add a 357 SIG BBL FOR ANOTHER 100 OR SO
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
I'll just throw a new barrel on the Glock 23.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,681
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,681 |
Not all bad guys are 140 and skinny as a rail. One might have punch through heavy clothing and a foot of fat. number of years ago they use to show this training video where some state trooper stops a really big fat guy in the south. trooper dumped a cylinder full of .357mag in the guy, but not putting him down. black guy fires i think a .25acp hitting trooper in the carotid artery in the neck, he died. Trooper Mark Coates... Was attacked on a traffic stop by a suspect named Richard Blackburn. Blackburn had some marijuana in his car and was paranoid. He had a NAA .22 Magnum in his pocket. First shot fired was by Blackburn into the Troopers bullet resistant vest. They grappled, Blackburn hit the ground and Trooper Coates fired six rounds of .38 Special +P hitting Blackburn five times in the torso. Blackburn was over 300 pounds and soaked up the +P .38's while firing another .22 Magnum that struck the Trooper in the upper arm and penetrated through his upper chest taking out the top of the heart. Trooper Coates was killed and that fat POS Blackburn survived.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,188
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,188 |
A .357 sig round beats the crap out of a .38 spec +P round in penetration.
And it probably could have made the difference and saved that Troppers life!
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston
Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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