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Joined: Nov 2011
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
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Thanks, smokepole, for the suggestion. I checked that. What I would like is a formula. I think quadratics are a little bit beyond your capabilities. Use a ballistics app.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
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antelope_sniper, I think quadratics are a little bit beyond your capabilities. But someone post a name "Jeff Hoffman" and I googled it. There is a formula !You are correct, I think. I never heard of quadratics before. But then one time a guy at work told me I was using algebra to solve for some unknowns. I din't know what I was doing was called algebra. I just knew it worked. Maybe quadratics is something in the formula.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
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This is one of the reasons MOA has an edge over Mils. Basic wind formula for 10 mph is Range/200. Example: .243 Win/105gr VLD/3075fps Western hunting. 7000 ft 30 degrees. G1 BC 0.54 @ 3075 fps. 500 yds 10 mph crosswind: 500/200= 2.5 MOA of drift 1000 yds 10 mph crosswind: 1000/200 = 5 MOA of drift Off the basic we get to simple modifiers. My .264 Win is just as simple for a 10 mph. Range / 200 and then minus 1 MOA 500 yd 10 crosswind: 500/200-1= 1.5 MOA 1000 yd 10 mph crosswind: 1000/200-1 = 4 MOA I could go on but the MOA subtension is better matched for shooting than the Mil. Just one of the advantages to MOA reticles.
John Burns
I have all the sources. They can't stop the signal.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about! Go John!
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927 |
Speed/direction seems a bigger trick than the physics. Piles of 75 Amax doesn't hurt either.
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Joined: May 2003
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2003
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I looked at hondo's suggestion and at 10 mph from 3 or 9 there is about .1 mil correction per 100 yards with every cartridge I use from .243 to .300, almost.
Wind brackets are generally good out to 600-700 yards. The better ballistics that you have the farther out it good for. Having said that, it takes a 7mm Berger 180gr at 3,200fps to match a 10mph wind bracket at SAC. Most "normal" hunting rounds with good bullets will be between a 4 to 7 mph wind bracket. Yep. 6 mph gives me .1 mil per 100 out to 600 with my 6.5x47's favorite load. John
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,263 Likes: 7
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,263 Likes: 7 |
Unless you can figure out exactly what the wind is doing at the muzzle, at the target, and several increments in between it's just an educated guess, no matter who you are, and often enough they do not.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
THATS WHAT I''M TALKING ABOUT!!!
The spray tan bizzzz sun!
Clark
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,959 Likes: 3 |
This is one of the reasons MOA has an edge over Mils. Basic wind formula for 10 mph is Range/200. Example: .243 Win/105gr VLD/3075fps Western hunting. 7000 ft 30 degrees. G1 BC 0.54 @ 3075 fps. 500 yds 10 mph crosswind: 500/200= 2.5 MOA of drift 1000 yds 10 mph crosswind: 1000/200 = 5 MOA of drift Off the basic we get to simple modifiers. My .264 Win is just as simple for a 10 mph. Range / 200 and then minus 1 MOA 500 yd 10 crosswind: 500/200-1= 1.5 MOA 1000 yd 10 mph crosswind: 1000/200-1 = 4 MOA I could go on but the MOA subtension is better matched for shooting than the Mil. Just one of the advantages to MOA reticles. I see no advantage of MOA over MIL one tenth of a Mil is extremely close to 1/3 MOA. 3 tenths extremely close to 1 MOA. Certainly close enough.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Jul 2009
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2009
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This is one of the reasons MOA has an edge over Mils. Basic wind formula for 10 mph is Range/200. Example: .243 Win/105gr VLD/3075fps Western hunting. 7000 ft 30 degrees. G1 BC 0.54 @ 3075 fps. 500 yds 10 mph crosswind: 500/200= 2.5 MOA of drift 1000 yds 10 mph crosswind: 1000/200 = 5 MOA of drift Off the basic we get to simple modifiers. My .264 Win is just as simple for a 10 mph. Range / 200 and then minus 1 MOA 500 yd 10 crosswind: 500/200-1= 1.5 MOA 1000 yd 10 mph crosswind: 1000/200-1 = 4 MOA I could go on but the MOA subtension is better matched for shooting than the Mil. Just one of the advantages to MOA reticles. So you memorize your drop numbers and calculate drift in your head? Are you spinning turrets or using the reticle?
Dave
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Unless you can figure out exactly what the wind is doing at the muzzle, at the target, and several increments in between it's just an educated guess, no matter who you are, and often enough they do not. That is the problem with wind, there are no absolutes and you cant set up wind flags to the target. get a good ballistic program,use the highest B.C.bullets and get lots of practice is the best formula I can come up with. there are times when Mother Nature just wins
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,867 |
Unless you can figure out exactly what the wind is doing at the muzzle, at the target, and several increments in between it's just an educated guess, no matter who you are, and often enough they do not. I'm thinking knowing the wind at the target and even close to the target is not necessary; unless it's a gale. By the time the bullet is within about a 100 yards of the target it will not move more than a 1" in a ten mile an hour wind. Thoughts?
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
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Joined: Jun 2006
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,114 Likes: 6 |
I'm thinking knowing the wind at the target and even close to the target is not necessary; unless it's a gale. By the time the bullet is within about a 100 yards of the target it will not move more than a 1" in a ten mile an hour wind.
Thoughts? If you don't constrain the range of the shot that's incorrect on both counts in that even a good bullet will drift more than an inch in the final hundred yards with a 10 mph crosswind and the effect of wind is greater the farther you get from the muzzle. PS, with a smart phone and an app, you can demonstrate this to yourself pretty quickly for any rifle and load you shoot.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Posts: 28,867
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Posts: 28,867 |
smokepole, If you don't constrain the range of the shot that's incorrect on both counts in that even a good bullet will drift more than an inch in the final hundred yards with a 10 mph crosswind and the effect of wind is greater the farther you get from the muzzle. First let me say, I think you are making a sale here. For conversation's sake.... Without looking at a computer drift chart I have a question. Let's say there is no wind after the first 100 yards of a 1000 yard shot. Wouldn't the bullet continue on its errant path from the first 100 yards at the angle it was deflected?
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 15,861
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 15,861 |
Without looking at a computer drift chart I have a question. Let's say there is no wind after the first 100 yards of a 1000 yard shot. Wouldn't the bullet continue on its errant path from the first 100 yards at the angle it was deflected?
No. Spin Drift.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,959 Likes: 3 |
Without looking at a computer drift chart I have a question. Let's say there is no wind after the first 100 yards of a 1000 yard shot. Wouldn't the bullet continue on its errant path from the first 100 yards at the angle it was deflected?
No. Spin Drift. The bullet is pushed off course by the wind, the wind stops pushing and the bullet stops be pushed off course.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Jun 2006
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,114 Likes: 6 |
Without looking at a computer drift chart I have a question. Let's say there is no wind after the first 100 yards of a 1000 yard shot. Wouldn't the bullet continue on its errant path from the first 100 yards at the angle it was deflected?
No. Spin Drift. The bullet is pushed off course by the wind..... I've read Bryan Litz's explanation and technically, I believe it's incorrect to say the bullet is pushed off course by the wind. I believe the wind causes the bullet to alter its orientation and that's what causes the deflection. I think I've read MD say something similar, maybe he'll chime in. Ringman, I wish I could answer your question. That would mean I had a really good grasp of all this.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Exactly...
The wind doesn't push the bullet. The bullet nose points into the wind causing the bullet to drift with the wind.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Some interesting thoughts here..... Without looking at a computer drift chart I have a question. Let's say there is no wind after the first 100 yards of a 1000 yard shot. Wouldn't the bullet continue on its errant path from the first 100 yards at the angle it was deflected?
No. Spin Drift. The bullet is pushed off course by the wind, the wind stops pushing and the bullet stops be pushed off course. Ummm. Care to elaborate...?
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,078 |
Once that bullet is drifting off course from a wind influence, it will continue to drift to some degree, even if the bullet is no longer being pushed by that initial wind.
It's mass in motion. Kind of like a vehicle doesn't immediately stop if power is lost.
Now try to read and calculate multiple wind influences along the bullet path. Different directions, different speeds, updrafts, downdrafts...
The complexity of long range wind reading is no joke. There is a lot of art to it, and I don't think anyone can really master it completely.
I enjoy the difficulty. It's part of what keeps it all interesting and challenging.
Last edited by MontanaMarine; 11/26/15.
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