After taking a caribou with the 405 Winchester this summer I have decided to take a Lever on this years Bison hunt here in the Yukon. Need to make 2800 ft pounds for legal use and the 348 will hit that. Torture tested some bullets today and the most obvious choice is the 250 Woodleigh. The cup and core 200's look good for caribou and the Hornady FP, maybe for moose but for big stuff a bonded core 250 grain is the way to go. Also it shoots to a similar point of impact as the 200 Silvertip load.
Good choice. Might I also recommend the 250gr Barnes Original as well.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
Good choice. Might I also recommend the 250gr Barnes Original as well.
The 250 Barnes up here are the same price as the Woodleighs. Seeing as the Woodleighs are bonded and shoot so well I might standardize on them as my heavyweight choice.
I'll try some Swifts too. Tried the 220 Barnes Originals today. They core separated but penetrated well. Also compared the 348 and 405 on hard catalogues. Not sure which to take Bison hunting next month?
For bison, I'd go with the 405. I have a real good load for the 300r barnes TSX. Guarantee it will shoot and penetrate like no other.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
Listen to jorge. He has a good load and gives good advice. Leave the 348 at home and take the 405. Better yet, carry a 45-70 loaded with some 540 grain Garrett Hammerheads. I have taken six bison and seen over a dozen others taken, and the 45 caliber rifles are the way to go on these animals. What you are looking for is a double lung hit with a complete pass through and a good exit wound. Otherwise you can be in for a very long afternoon.
I have played around with a 450 Marlin and hard cast bullets and have never been impressed with wound channels. I could loads the Barnes X bullet but I really like these Woodleighs! Meat hunting so unlikely to go for the biggest animal in the herd.
There were a lot of bison killed with 500 grain lead bullets pushed by black powder at 1200 to 1300 fps out of 45 caliber rifles in the 1870's. A couple of million, give or take. The 450 Marlin, 405 and 348, not so much. Hitting a bison at 2200 fps doesn't always impress them.
On the one bison I have ever killed I used a .35 Remington, a peep sighted early Marlin 336A, with Remington factory 200 grain ammunition.
It was on a ranch and the meat was going to be used for our Fireman's picnic. Range was only 40 yards. I shot the medium sized bull right where I was directed, basically behind the ear. It was a bang flop.
My long belabored point is the same one we have all heard at least 10 million times. Hit them in the right spot and they die quickly. Which is why Bell (which we've all heard the same 10 million times) was so successful with the 7X57 and the .318 when he hunted elephants.
It's wonderful to have all kinds of power, but I'm still amazed how quickly that bison died. And you're right he wasn't a big herd bull.
So, let's all get .22s and shot everything behind the ear...
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
JorgeI that could probably be done with a bison if you were close enough; again Bells success with elephants. I was just surprised by the posts of those who felt the caliber and premium bullets that were needed to kill a bison.
Heck, use a .577 Tyrannosaur or a .700 Nitro Express and I will truly be more than happy for you. I was just sharing my one experience.
I was curious and looked up Boddington's bison hunt with the 348. He admitted that he'd aimed for a brain shot and shot low, missing the brain. The animal shook it's head and took off in high gear. Under those circumstances it's going to be difficult to stop such an animal with any rifle when it's pumping adrenaline. Three follow up shots to the chest from the 348 (250 gr Barnes) eventually pulled it up.
I would suggest that the result would have been similar had he used a 45/70 or 405 and missed the brain on the first shot.
JorgeI that could probably be done with a bison if you were close enough; again Bells success with elephants. I was just surprised by the posts of those who felt the caliber and premium bullets that were needed to kill a bison.
Heck, use a .577 Tyrannosaur or a .700 Nitro Express and I will truly be more than happy for you. I was just sharing my one experience.
Bell's "success" with elephants (and I take it you are referring to the 7X57 or 6.5 MS) is a bit of a romanticized misnomer. He was hunting elephants who had no clue as to what a man could do with a rifle (believe me they've learned) and by his own admission, he lost MANY wounded animals and recognized the caliber's limitations. In a round about way, it's the same justification people use for the 45/70 and call it a proper DG caliber. Sure, a 45/70 will kill just about anything with proper bullet/placement (look at the number of elephants killed with the 308 for example) but it sure as hell ain't a DG caliber by any stretch.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
My son took a bison with the 348 and using the 250 woodleigh. His rifle is a browning 71 this bullet performed very well. Testing barnes original, barnes tsx , and the woodleigh. The barnes original did not perform as I was hoping and my stockpile of them were sold. The tsx did well but I could not find any available. The woodleigh did very well and were available also I have read that some of the other 250 grain bullets out there would not chamber in the browning? The recovered slug pictured was found on the for side just under the hide and weighs 244 grains. My powder of choice was h4831sc chosen for lower pressure and felt recoil (my 13 year old son at the time was pretty small) I would not hesitate to use the woodleigh bullet.
What you have done is not nearly as important as how you have done it!!! The Old Fart 2008 A.D.
JorgeI that could probably be done with a bison if you were close enough; again Bells success with elephants. I was just surprised by the posts of those who felt the caliber and premium bullets that were needed to kill a bison.
Heck, use a .577 Tyrannosaur or a .700 Nitro Express and I will truly be more than happy for you. I was just sharing my one experience.
Bell's "success" with elephants (and I take it you are referring to the 7X57 or 6.5 MS) is a bit of a romanticized misnomer. He was hunting elephants who had no clue as to what a man could do with a rifle (believe me they've learned) and by his own admission, he lost MANY wounded animals and recognized the caliber's limitations. In a round about way, it's the same justification people use for the 45/70 and call it a proper DG caliber. Sure, a 45/70 will kill just about anything with proper bullet/placement (look at the number of elephants killed with the 308 for example) but it sure as hell ain't a DG caliber by any stretch.
Exactly like the buffalo hunters of the 18 Hundred's they shot them like prairie dogs
My son took a bison with the 348 and using the 250 woodleigh. His rifle is a browning 71 this bullet performed very well. Testing barnes original, barnes tsx , and the woodleigh. The barnes original did not perform as I was hoping and my stockpile of them were sold. The tsx did well but I could not find any available. The woodleigh did very well and were available also I have read that some of the other 250 grain bullets out there would not chamber in the browning? The recovered slug pictured was found on the for side just under the hide and weighs 244 grains. My powder of choice was h4831sc chosen for lower pressure and felt recoil (my 13 year old son at the time was pretty small) I would not hesitate to use the woodleigh bullet.
Any update on the Bison hunt? Wish more Yukoner's would post here. Planning a trip up this summer just to look around, if all goes well then a permanent move is the plan in a few years. Would love to see some pics of the hunt, if your so inclined.
Interesting subject. I have homestead land North of Denali. The last bull moose taken was with a Win M-71 348 Ackley Improved using a 270 gr Hawk. The Hawk bullets hold together. Alaska Bullet Works has a bonded core 250 gr bullet which works well. The 348 Ack Improved will push a 250 gr to 2400.Very similar to the 35 Whelen...... For serious close bear or bison, recommend the 450 Alaskan. I have an original early long tang Model 71 in 450 Fuller.(Cousin of the Alaskan) It will push a bonded core 400 gr FP .458 at 2000 FPS. It is good for coastal brown bear or irritated grizzlies. Alaska has these. Canada has its share. Bullet placement is critical. That is why -with bears-its nice to have an older reliable Winchester that says on the barrel: Winchester Repeating Firearms-"repeating" might be important with an angry grizz....
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena-not the critic"-T. Roosevelt There are no atheists in fox holes or in the open doors of a para's aircraft.....
Any update on the Bison hunt? Wish more Yukoner's would post here. Planning a trip up this summer just to look around, if all goes well then a permanent move is the plan in a few years. Would love to see some pics of the hunt, if your so inclined.
No luck this time though I logged 450 Km on the snowmobile. Saw some great country and some Bison but never got close enough to score. Here is a very short video of a bit of the country and my hunting partners.
