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Swampman1;

Diameter has nothing to do with consistent bullet performance. That is completely a function of the bullet design and manufacturing consistencies.

Mind addressing the math/physics part of the question?

Just means you are using the wrong bullet for that application , has absolutely NOTHING to do with diameter.

"What is so MAGIC about the .308 diameter ?"

The US Government spent milloins of dollars perfecting it. It works like it's supposed to. It's more accurate. There are no good bullets for deer sized game below the .308 mark. The are like AP or they blow up. OK for lung, brain, or spine shots. They won't break both front shoulders. Down here we don't want them to run off. It's too thick to find them without a dog.

Frankly, you are so full of schit on that one, it's just ridiculous.

Nope, the Nosler Partitions in .24 to 28 caliber don't work at all.

Neither do the Barnes X or TSX.

Or the TBBCs.

That was one of the dumbest, most factually incorrect, and just ridiculous posts I've ever seen.

Now, please discount the laws of physics and ballistics as stated above.

You know, I can't quite figure you out yet.

Just exactly WHEN did the US government spend $millions perfecting a HUNTING bullet ????????????

Am thinking he means they "perfected" the .30 caliber, as a caliber.

Funny... I thought the Europeans gave us the first military .30 (Krag).

And, funny, but the .30 caliber loses in almost all competitions now, except those specifically designed for it, to the 6.5s and 7s... and even as a long-range sniping tool to the .338s and .50s.

Still waiting on the refutation of ballistics and physics, though.

"Still waiting on the refutation of ballistics and physics, though."

I answered that already.

I put 3 7mm Noslers right through the heart lung area of a small PA whitetail. I may as well have been shooting AP. It didn't even flinch. I had to shoot it in the head to kill it. No more 7mms for me thank you. I like humane kills, and the .308+ calibers do that well.

No, you didn't.

You had one experience with a 7mm, on a small PA deer (running, too, right?), and you're now an expert on what does/does not work as far as calibers.

Now, how exactly is that .30-30 more powerful and better for hunting than the 7mm Rem. Mag, which you have not used on deer, when the .30-30 delivers less than 60% of the energy, via a 5 grain lighter bullet, of far lower sectional density?

I've used the 7RM. It sucked too. The .30-30 kills them in their tracks. The 7mms and the .270s just don't. If they run off in these woods, the coyotes will have eaten them completely up in a few hours.

[quote... There are no good bullets for deer sized game below the .308 mark. The are like AP or they blow up. OK for lung, brain, or spine shots. They won't break both front shoulders....[/quote]

If anyone doubted you're nuts, I'm sure they are no longer wondering.

A good sub-.30 bullet will easily break both shoulders of a deer. Or even an elk - I know because I've done it.

Had an X pencil through, but never had anything but a varmint bullet blow up. Took me over 20 years to recover a 160g Grand Slam from my 7mm Mag, but never had to track the animals I shot.

I think I've figured you out, finally.

Either you are so completely full of schit that you can't see through it to the truth, or you're the most stubborn, convinced of yourself, ignorant fool seen 'round here in a LONG time.

The .30-30 is a 100% DRT deer killer, but the 7RM, 7-08, and .270 suck so bad that they are only good for varmints?

Priceless....

If you've convinced yourself of that... right along with the Handi's superiority over any other single-shot, well, you've got one helluva world you're living in.

Trying to have an intelligent conversation with you, is like trying to talk dirty to a nun...

You've got good taste in wheelguns, and knives, but frankly, you don't know schit about ballistics or hunting rounds, and you simply refuse to even attempt to learn.

Sad, really...

Fellas, let's just stop feeding this f'kin' troll.

Either he's baiting us, or he's a complete idiot; one or the other, and neither is worth dealing with any longer.

I simply refuse to use sub-.308 cartridges. My reasons are good enough for me. I'm biased against them based on my personal experience. I've been studying balistics for 44 years. When I see people using them hot rod needle guns, I realize they are young and inexperienced. They'll figure it out, or quit hunting most likely

No, you're just a fool.

Jack O'Connor was certainly young and inexperienced, as is everyone else who hunts with anything under .30 caliber. Pretty damned sure of yourself aren't you? The fact that literally MILLIONS of game animals fall to sub .30 caliber rounds yearly must not count either, huh?

Anyone who takes and defends a position such as the one that you've staked out for yourself, in stark defiance of laws of physics and ballistics, and incontrovertible evidence is not rational, nor are they intelligent enough to admit to themselves that they might be wrong. A pity...

If you understood anything about ballistics, you'd know you were wrong, on many points.

BTW - from the pics you put up, you aren't much older than 44. Damn impressive if you've been hunting and studying ballistics since literally in diapers.

Then again, you do whatever you think best; 'cause you're obviously too f'kin' hard-headed, stubborn, and ignorant to learn.

Damn shame...

You just won the honor of being right there with WETIBBE of being the only members on my ignore list. He got it by being and azzhole; you, by being ignorant. Quite an accomplishment and one that, somehow, twistedly, I am sure you'll be proud of...

Jack O'Connor was on Winchester's payroll. He was a great salesman. I have been reading gun rags since I could read.

Must have just recently completed the "hooked on phonics" program.........

2MG;

DFTFT....

Actually, in this case, it may be DFTDSMFT...

Somehow I understood that completely.............

Figured you might............... Likely a pun there, or two....... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Sorry guys, I gotta go with what I've seen with my own eyes.