Home Forums Birds & Dogs Shotguns I need a new shotgun tax returns around the bend

I have just recently taken the plunge into trying my hand at a little bit of upland hunting. I don't exactly have a shotgun suited to upland shooting though. I have an 870 12 and an 1100 12 already. But those are both full choked guns used for predator calling. I'm in Kentucky so quail and grouse with the occasional pheasant are what is on the menu.

I really don't want to spend a whole lot. Especially for the amount of time I'll be pursuing birds. So let's say under 1,000. Not really into pumps but I could be persuaded. So what is out there that you bird guys would reccomend to a guy just starting out?

I have been looking at the franchi 48 20 or the 28.

My personal favorite auto is the Benelli M1. It's light, indestructible, runs great no matter the weather. I like them better than the M2 because I don't like the forearm on the M2. A very good condition M1 can be had for 800 or 900 bucks. The barrels are chrome lined and the action is the easiest on the planet to break down and clean. I'm looking at buying a second so I have a matching pair to travel with.

Why not just buy a barrel that accepts choke tubes for one or both of your Remington's? You could buy a couple of choke tube ready barrels for half the amount you mentioned. Then you could use the guns you are familiar with while you get your feet wet in the uplands.

Just got my 2nd Franchi 48 20ga. Love it, will never be without another one..

20 gauge for sure. Semi autos are nice.

Very important that it fits you, not just what visual appeals to you or what other people like. Any chance you can shoot some clay targets with a friends gun to see if it performs well for you?

Yes, the Benelli guns are great machines and designed for many thousands (and thousands!) of rounds. Few people will wear them out.

If you are just going to shoot a couple boxes of shells a season there are many guns that will suit your needs.

But be advised that lots of people are looking for 'good' used 20 gauges.

And yes, the Franchi 20 gauge is nice.

That is a thought GC, but dang those 1100s are heavy. Not to mention that a barrel for the 1100 is 250-270 new. That's a quarter of a new gun. We all like having a gun for each little thing we do right? That and the fact that I really want one of the smaller gauges. Lightweight is crucial

There is no better upland gun that the Franchi...none.

Mwn- isn't that the truth. I have missed out on 2 1100 lightweights in the last 2 weeks.

As for the friend thing. The only guy I know that bird hunts at the present moment shoots a SXS.

Yes, I just sold a Remington 1100 LW 20 gauge right here on 24-Hour. Took about 20 minutes!

I too like the Franchi 48 but it's a 2 3/4" chambered gun and if nontoxic is implemented across the board a 3"chamber will be a plus especially in 20ga or you will be forced to buy that 3 or 4 dollar a shot heavier than lead nontoxic shot.

KY

You want a Franchi 48 or a Benelli Montefeltro, M1 or 2 if weight is a factor.
I found my used 20 ga. Montefeltro for 750.
PMed you a link on a camo M1.

Good luck, Dennis

20 ga for sure. Benelli Montefeltro or if it might see bad weather and water the M1 or M2. For a little less money the Franchi Affinity is made on the same assembly line as the M2, it just doesn't have the comfortech stock or slug barrels yet. I would get a 3" chamber.

Some seem to like the Stoeger inertia guns but they aren't Italian like the Benelli and Franchi. I haven't yet warmed to Turkish made guns.

If weight is an issue Benelli also makes the ultra light

Browning BPS 16ga or an Ithaca M37 16ga.

all very valid points and good responses guys I appreciate all the information. I'm pretty dimwitted in most subjects but when it comes to shotguns I'm just plain dumb...haven't been around them a whole lot so I know next to nothing.

Clark- just based on what I have read I don't think I could warm up to the turkey guns either. They may be great idk, but I just don't want to spend my $ on one.

I'm gonna hit one of the bigger gunshops down here this weekend and see if I can handle some of the above guns mentioned to see what fits best to me and go from there. I'm also talking with a member here about a possible sell. might be able to save a little coin if I can get used

I like the inertia semi guns. You can't beat them for simplicity and durability, however Beretta makes some good gas guns too and the Winchester SX3 is a good gas gun. The gas guns will shoot a little softer but I've never had recoil be much of a consideration,which is why I prefer the inertia guns.


One good thing about the Benelli and Franchi guns is that they come with adjustment plates to change drop at heel and cast, so it's easier to fit one than a SXS or O/U.

I prefer O/Us for upland birds and clay shooting (also used one for waterfowl). Look at the Franchi Instinct L to see if it fits you well. Years ago when I was looking for a light O/U for upland hunting that fit me, I bought a Franchi Alcione. It's not designed to shoot high volume of shells at clays but it's been a great hunting shotgun for me. Over the years I've taken a whole bunch of birds with it as it just points where I'm looking. I've never had a problem with it and it's a real favorite of mine. You should be able to find an Instinct L for real close to you what you want to spend.

Smart man right there..

"turkey" guns? (I know you meant "Turkish", just hadda do it, because)...

Bird season is over and you have almost a year to shoot a bunch of different shotguns to find out what you like. Go to a club and shoot some skeet or sporting clays a dozen times over the summer and you will find out on your own what you like. Many clubs have loaners you can try. Or you could have a bunch of us on the internet tell you what we think you should like.

I recommend an old 870 Wingmaster for a starter for what it is worth.

battue, has the right idea.. pick up a used 870, and go from there.. I always handle them til I find one with a stock that fits my style.. Most guns are too low for me.. When I put it to my shoulder, I want to be looking right down the barrel..

One thing with the 870, should you move on to another style it is a great backup gun.. Buying used, you wont loose much $.. I have had all the styles, pumps, autos, singles, side/sides and o/u's.. I like the pump action best..

My favorite upland gun is a 20 gauge Ithaca 37. The gun is light and points better than anything else I have shouldered. Not to mention that I am left handed and it loads and ejects from the bottom.

If it isn't too tiring try reading the original posting along with the next several comment posts and the OP's follow up reply.

Not tiring at all and I missed it that he has an 870.

However they do make them in the smaller gauges and he mentioned that he could be persuaded to stick with a pump.

Still say that before he buys what someone else likes, to try others-as in actually shoot them more than a little-and discover what he likes. Simple really, but this stuff is only as hard as you want to make it. Campfire consensus is usually all over the board as has already been shown.

I like the Kimber Montana, but I bought one because it works for me, not because of what someone else thinks. Nothing wrong with asking, but using gives answers where others opinions may fall short.

We are in a great era of shotgunning with the availability of both older and new guns to choose from. Battue has the right idea in shooting a few before making a purchase. That said, I would be taking a look at the Ithica 37, Franchi AL 48, Beretta 391, or maybe a Winchester model 12. You really have a lot of good options. Good luck and have fun looking.

There haven't been any bad answers in this thread I don't think. And I appreciate them all....


Like I said in my OP. I do not have to have an auto... Fact is I can't get back in target any faster with an auto than I can with a pump. I should look at the Ithaca 37. It really seems to be getting good remarks.

A guy I know local has a Browning upland Special in a 20
He would be willing to sell. It's kind of an interesting piece. 22" barrel with an English style stock...not sure if that is a gun worth looking at or not.

I know these queations get beat to death, but UPS makes sure I earn my $$$ lol. I hate to waste it on junk. So while I don't need to be told which exact model to buy I do like knowing what models get high praises. That way I can narrow it down to 3-4 and start there

You could make a worse choice than a 22in upland special for an all around shotgun, but I don't know what it would be.

He stated in his OP that he is interested in an upland gun for quail, grouse and an occasional pheasant not an all around shotgun. Personally, I prefer longer barrels than 22 inches but if he handles this used shotgun and if it fits him well, it could be a good upland shotgun as the name "Upland Special" would imply it was intended to be. I'm just not clear as to whether he is talking about the BPS Upland Special or the Citori Upland Special.

Sorry bout that. It's the BPS pump gun.....

I'm not sure how I feel about a 22"
Barrel. But at the same time. I thought it may be handy in the grouse woods

Perhaps if every opportunity was a snap shot. Facts are they are not.
That particular shotgun has almost no built in follow thru character. Easy to start and just as easy to stop.

You are not sure, well another reason to shoot a different variety of offerings.

Extra short barrels are also not much of an advantage in the Grouse woods. There are pure crossers, there are Birds that are out a bit, there are Birds that are up high, coming and going; some extra barrel that aids in keeping the gun moving is faaaaarr from a bad thing. They all don't jump up at your feet. Neither do Pheasants or Quail.

You asked, I told you and I ain't wrong.

Wouldn't be my first choice. Or second ... or third......... or thirty third.

Battue
GC.

when companies do stuff like this it just makes me wonder...." Who is behind it"?

I'm not a bird hunter at all .....yet anyways and I didn't think that a 22" barrel sounded very wise.... So whe you guys obviously In the know have very valid reasons as to why it's not a wise choice. I cannot seem to understand why they can't figure out that hey. This isn't what an upland gun should be. Seems like a lot of companies have specialty models that really are not suited to what they say they are at all.

Marketing is behind it. They already have the basic action and want to find another way to sell it. So they chop the barrel, add a straight stock and call it an "Upland Special". Sounds nice and looks kinda cool.

Years ago some upland outdoor writers wrote articles where they said extra short barrels are the cat's azz for the uplands. Entitled to their opinion, but they happen to be wrong and most accomplished upland shotgunners know it. However, it caught on more than a little with the masses. On top of that most American made shotguns are designed on the heavy side from the frame size in the beginning. For the barrels to fit flush with the frame they have to start out thick. Then they don't taper them down right and you end up with a pig on a fork balance, along with a heavier shotgun. How do we fix that? The easy way is to chop them off. You could taper them, as they did with the Rem 1100 LT Wt barrels which was a great idea but most don't go that route. Think pre 64 Model 70 Standard barrel weight vs the FWT contour. Makes a big difference in how that rifle carries and handles.

Choping them off for the most part is the wrong answer, but many American buyers have bought into the idea that short barrels are upland utopia, so they cut them short. Thinking of it that way they are giving us what we want.

Over in some of the European countries where they take their shotgunning seriously, longer and leaner is what the shooters use.

The newer sem-auto small gauges from the likes of Beretta, Benelli and Franchi are dang good shotguns. They are LW, well balanced with longer barrels and reliable. Nothing classic about their looks, but they handle better than most of the American Classics.

You guys need to listen to battue, he's spot on. A 26 inch tube is a sound choice for an all arounder. 22 inch tube is a mistake, period.

I'm not always right when it comes to this stuff and certainly not the best shotgunner on the campfire. However, I've probably spent enough trying to learn, it would allow a slow child to eventually get thru Harvard.

And truthfully the best advice I could give the OP is to use the shotguns he now has and spend the money for a new one on lessons from someone who knows how to shoot shotguns. Get that down first, then you will rather quickly arrive at what is best for a given type of shotgunning.

And I ain't wrong about that either.

Pm sent battue

I may have found what I need.

battue, is quite right about the 22" barreled shotgun.. I have a Rem. 12 g. upland special.. I seldom shoot it much any more except maybe at turkey.. I have gone mostly back to my old 870 12 or an 870 28" 20 ga..

Ah jeez. So much schit being spewed it's not even funny. ;-)

If your going to hunt upland, and you want a gun for under, or close to $1k, by a Miroku! You can thank me later! DO NOt by a semi-auto! No respectable upland hunter would be caught dead with a semi-auto in their hand.

You can thank me later!

http://www.gunsinternational.com/gu...uperior-grade-20-ga.cfm?gun_id=100543276

Oh... You're a Brit? Tweed, bow tie and knickers kinda guy. Have a crumpet and relax, no partridge were molested in the making of this thread.

Gay.

Get the new Remington V3, when you can. In 12 gauge of course.

Semi-Autos will never have the reliability of a double. They also don't swing as well, and you only get you one choke. I can't tell you how many times I've hunted with guys who were carrying Semi-autos and had feeding problems. I've got a beautiful Beretta 20 391 that stays there. Nice gun, but it's fussy about shells and doesn't hold a candle to a decent double. The Miroku in the link is a PHENOMINAL gun, and much better than any of the single barrel guns being suggested. I only wish Miroku wouldn't have agreed with Browning not to important their own branded guns when they started making guns for Browning. Many people will tell you the Miroku branded guns are nicer than the Brownings they also produce. There is a reason hard core upland guys carry doubles, and it's not because they wear Barbour and Dubarry.

Well, I guess here in the heart of upland and waterfowl heaven, we don't have many "hardcore guys" then.

I've only seen two doubles in the field in the past decade. Oh yeah, both were broken and unusable by the end of one day's hunting.

Oops, I also remember the really serious guy from Alabama that was up here using a Win Mod 21--that one broke also but it took 3 days.

I guess you don't...... When we were in SD this year, not only were all of the guys shooting doubles, most of the doubles were 100+ years old. I'm betting those guns have worked perfectly for each of those 100 years as well. If you ever get a chance to hunt wild quail on one of the really nice plantations in the South, don't bring your single barrel gun unless it's a break action, since they don't allow guns that aren't break action.

Consensus on the campfire is as likely as 12 women agreeing on laundry detergent. Your best bet is to try as many guns as you can get your hands on, that still appeal to you. Make your decision on what you like personally and you will be surprised at how well something will work that someone told you wouldn't....

I'm wondering if Jetjockey's brother is a doctor in Utah...

I'm about as hard core as it gets when it comes to upland hunting, and bird dogs. I expect my dogs, and my guns to work perfectly every time I hit the field. It's why my dogs go to summer camp every year, why they get trailed in the offseason, and why I stress over the little things in shotgunning. I don't put up with guns that jam and can't shoot light loads, heavy loads, and everything in between. When guns are marketed as "reliable", you know they aren't that reliable. It's why I dumped a Beretta 391 12 ga that kept jamming for my 20ga O/U when bird hunting in SA this year after the second or third flock of Egyptians came into our blind. Supposidely the 20 isnt enough for Egyptians, but our PH changed his mind that night after we started dropping passing geese at 40-50 yards. The Miroku I gave the link to is a far superior shotgun and will be much more reliable than any semi-auto. Pumps can be very reliable, and I still love my 870 Wingmaster, but it doesn't get hunted anymore. It's too big and clunky and doesn't should or swing anywhere close to a decent double. But opinions very!

I don't consider 3-5 shots during a mid-morning hour of walking behind pointing dogs on a private pheasant farm only to return to the cleaning comforts of a lodge in the middle of October to be much of a test of any shotgun. Though it is an enjoyable time.

Try August 15-January 4, stored on the floor of a pickup, shooting light dove lead through magnum goose steel, dragged through dry dust wheat field stubble onward to mud pit blinds and finally into snow, ice, and below-zero cold in a trapping sled, with no cleaning until season is over, THEN get ready for the abuse of spring snow goose season. The shotgun gets cleaned to bare steel once per year in the summer. Your 100-year old double wouldn't cut it. Neither will most current shotguns.

Each of us has our own hunting experiences and expectations, and ours are certainly different.

As an aside, your quote "I'm betting those guns have worked perfectly for each of those 100 years as well" is almost certainly false, by a long shot. Rather, those doubles have been maintained well for 100 years and repaired as needed to keep them running, which is enjoyable to many.

Sounds like exactly what I did with my 686 this year, with the exception of throwing it on the floor of the truck on a regular basis. You can add many rounds of trap to the equation as well. I think the final talley for the year was 12 flats of shells while hunting, and a couple more playing games. In Africa alone the gun was drug through goose blinds, duck blinds, dusty peanut fields, dry crop fields, and a bunch of other stuff in temps over 80 degrees. I think I went through 8 flats of shells in 4 days, and the gun was never cleaned. When I got back state side it was drug through the snow and sub zero temps on all day hunts in SD for late season roosters with heavy loads. On the way home it went to NE and the loads were lightened up for wild quail and pheasants. I finished up on a wild quail hunt in GA in 100% humidity and temps in the upper 70's, with light rain. I finally cleaned the gun after the GA hunt because of the water and humidity. Not only did the gun perform perfectly, I EXPECTED it to! What you describe is normal use, with the exception of throwing the gun on the floor, for me. I know my Semi autos wouldn't be able to handle that, and I'm not 100% positive my 870 could. I'm 100% confident in any of my doubles to do that, even though I don't treat the classic guns like I do my meat guns. I hunted with my FIL on most of those hunts, and his doubles perceived flawlessly as well, as should be expected.

I have friends in the dog training world who have doubles they use for training that have probably never been cleaned. They are dented, pitted, rusted, have never seen a spec of oil, and have been thrown in horse trailers, trucks, tractor, scaboards, and everything else you can think of, and they still function perfectly.

Good to know. I'll add the 686 to my list of useful shotguns.

This may need to be shared with all the dove shooters in Argentina as they don't know how problematic a Benelli shotgun really is. It seems they shoot millions of rounds a year through Benellis, not realizing how worthless they really are...

My 686 20ga 29.5" barrels is my favorite gun but my inertia guns serve just as well and I like synthetic in rough weather and around water.

Just get one that fits you and that you like. Most of the semi's are easy to adjust via spacers. A double can be adjusted but it's usually a larger and more expensive task.IMHO fit trumps action as long as we are talking good well known dependable guns.

They basically shoot one load and clean their guns every night. Where semi-autos run into trouble is when you shoot a large variety of loads. The nice thing about semi-autos is the reduced recoil. For Argentina dove shooting, they aren't a bad choice at all.

Guy I know had over 100,000 thru a Beretta 686. Broke a couple ejectors and had a locking lug replaced.

Myself ran around 12-15,000 thru a Beretta A400. For end cracked. Have an extra trigger for a little over a $100 because eventually something will let loose.

So far on a Perazzi around 20,000. Firing pins are getting a little burnt on the ends and will be replaced this summer along with hammer springs. Should go another 20 plus unless a top lever spring goes down. Probably should replace it also.

However, there is no way over the long haul a semi will hang with a Beretta, Perazzi, Krieghoff, Browning etc when it comes to breaking. Advantage to the semi it will be cheaper and an easier parts swap to get it back running quickly.

As far as hard core upland hunters only using a SxS or O/U. BS+ Same with respectable BS++

I have an Ithaca 37 28a that has lost its new shine in two years. It's been snowed on rained on and laid in the dirt more than once. A couple model 12 16a's that have been thrown on the truck floor and bounced around. Who knows what they went thru before I acquired them, but the stocks have been refinished and bluing is a thing of the past. An 870 that I bought back in the late 70's. Shot a bunch of trap with it, hunted Grouse for years with it with a shorter barrel and have used it for pump gun sporting events. Used when I bought it and all the same parts are still with it.

I have some SxS and O/U I use also. I guess I'm only respectable when carrying them.






Unfortunately more BS, since I've been there and used a Semi. However, you were only allowed two shells in the shotgun. It was the owners and he often uses it also. He can use a Fabbri, but usually doesn't.

Yeah, those Benelli's are losers...

"Tom’s Old Benelli
Benelli M1 Super 90
Tom Knapp finally retired his old Benelli M1 Super 90 last year when he donated it to the Buffalo Bill Historic Center in Cody, Wyoming, where it will be put on permanent display next to the guns of other great exhibition shooters like Herb Parsons and Annie Oakley. Tom's old Benelli wasn't worn out, in fact it had never let Tom down, but it was after Tom sent his faithful Super 90 to the museum that he sat down and figured out how many rounds the gun had fired. Buffalo Bill Historical CenterWith over 140 live shows per year, the total number of rounds put through the Benelli was over half a million. Well, it's a good thing Tom retired that gun, because at that pace he would have worn it out... in another hundred years or so."

Most do not! Many don't allow 12ga guns either.

A quick look at the gallery photos of the pay to hunt plantations-and all wild Quail are few and far between there-will show that most do.

I disagree! I live here, and have hunted several of the plantations that don't allow pumps or autos. Many of the guides require them as well as they want to be able to see the gun is safe. I get to hunt one place because my father in law was the surgeon who put one of the guides feet back together after a 12ga from 2 feet that was loaded, pointed at the ground, and tried to take it off. That guide requires breech guns now as well, and will never get all the bb's out.

"SAFETY IS OUR TOP PRIORITY – only breach shotguns are permitted on hunts (12 gauge shotguns will not be permitted for quail hunting). Prices are per person. Guns and ammunition not included unless otherwise stated."

"Breach loading guns are required in the field and can be supplied at no charge."


There's plenty of wild bird plantations. The problem is getting on them, and being able to afford them. They aren't nearly as commercialized as the ones who advertise all over Covey Rise and Shooting Sportsman. They offer far fewer hunts so as not to hurt the bird numbers, and they are ridiculously expensive!

Maybe on that place, but it isn't the norm. Correction:The semi is just as safe if they only allow 2 shells when walking into the point. 2 shells in a shotgun are the same wither break action or semi. Only shoot one and you have to open either to remove the live one. Shoot two and it makes no difference. On top of that someone will be watching and know how many times you pulled the trigger. Walk back with a break action after shooting two and don't have it open and you will be told. Shot two with a semi and it will be open. Which is why they only allowed two in a semi.


Place I'm talking about, you can't pay to get on even if you wanted to. The owner doesn't need any money other than his own to keep the place running.