Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Extreme Long Range Shots?

I haven't had any of the channels that show hunting for quite some time, so I've been taking advantage of watching some during a free preview month. I've been watching pretty much anything with sheep/ibex hunting, Africa, or Western big game and across the board, seems like everyone is using a Gunwerks LR-1000 and every freaking shot is 900+ yards. I don't get it ...

Some things I am trying to figure out/understand:

1. Why does a hunter, who has drawn the bighorn sheep tag he's been coveting for 30 years, switch to a Gunwerks LR-1000 for the hunt rather than use his trusty deer rifle (or the rifle he shot all his other sheep/ibex with)?

2. Why does everyone have a LR-1000? On one show, and I get that Gunwerks is a sponsor of this particular show, every hunter in camp was shooting a LR-1000. Across two episodes, they had 3 hunters shoot bighorns with their LR-1000! Are they giving these out as a prize when you draw a bighorn tag or something?!

3. Why is everything shot at 900 yards?! What happen to the art of sneaking up on your prey?

4. I've seen tons of bighorn sheep hunts in the past couple weeks, enough that it makes it seem like tags are not as hard to get as they are. Do they film every freaking person who draws a bighorn sheep tag?

Guess it's a bit of a rant because I can't seem to understand it. I like light rifles that are easy to carry. If I drew a bighorn sheep tag and, lets say, I get called and agree to be filmed by a show. I don't care if they want me to use a rifle made by the show's sponsor, I'll shoot my own rifle, stalk as close as I can, and keep my shots under 500 yards. Seems that formula has been working for lots of hunters in the pass.

Sevens,

Some people can so they do. Different strokes for different folks.

I'm hoping my six pound thirteen ounce 6.5 wildcat will be good enough to keep five shots in a 12" circle at 1000 yards. Never-the-less my longest kill was a rock chuck at 527 yards. Life is rough for us wannabees.

Part of it is merchandising (selling Gunwerks rifles). Another part is the natural human inclination to buy better technology and put it to use. Still another is an infatuation and fascination with killing animals at great distance.

A lot of internet press is devoted to it,so it gets talked up a lot. Much of this emanates from the west,where game is more easily seen and killed due to the more open nature of the country,and the fact that deer and elk are easier to kill if they hang around in the open where they are visible.

Some folks don't see the sense in walking or stalking over "there" when they can shoot from "here". Modern scopes and bullets allow this,but it takes a new skill level and many (most) simply are not up to 900 yard shooting at BG animals. But that's not what the makers of LR rifles want us to believe.

Ohh they will tell you otherwise...but then show some 13 year old killing an elk at 900-1000 yards. Subliminal message? This is so easy a 13 year old kid can do it,and so can you if you buy our rifles and scopes. In real life, nothing could be further from the truth.

I feel bad for a lot of newbies who are led to false conclusions about western hunting,and may feel that you can't hunt in the west unless you are lethal to 1000 yards. Nothing could be further from the truth but if they spend enough time watching these shows,it's easy to feel somehow inadequate.


Used to be that we prepared for 500-600 yard shots "in case",but only because at that point the wheels had fallen off, the "hunt" was botched and desperate measures were called for.

Today, to read on here and see on TV,such distances are considered "normal" by some. But, as John Burns once said...500 yards on BG animals is still "long" among honest men. The honest LR BG hunters I have spoken with say the same things.

Personally I am not opposed to LR shooting of BG animals if the shooter is truly capable. But I am skeptical of anyone trying it whose annual round count in practice or competition isn't approaching several thousand rounds a year under conditions.

As well put as could be Bob. Pushing product is what so many shows are geared towards. For the extreme long range shots on those shows the scenario where things go wrong are never shown. When the time of flight is long (and in hunting 1 1/2 seconds is long enough) an animal can easily take a step and everything changes regardless of how well you've doped the wind, the distance, etc.

I appreciate the guys that do it well and as you say that comes largely from practice with round count in the thousands, not just dropping the cash on a long range rig and "dialing it up and letting it go"

Thank goodness for long range shooing and shooters, it helps us better all aspects of our equipment. Big difference between long range shooting and long range hunting.

I'd say most of it is merchandising. The rest is giving the audience what they want.

Why would anyone agree to be filmed and join in any circus of hunting on TV short or long range?

But I agree do it your own way. Long or short. As noted some are capable some are not. But sure is nice to know your limits and stick to them.

And get rid of all the damn hunting shows on TV.... almost all of them are advertising and worthless.

Agreed. It's like a 30 minute infomercial. No thanks. That said this is my year for a bighorn tag and I'm practicing to 2,000 yards.

I know that there are shooters and rifles that are easily capable of making those shots,but I wonder (through the magic of editing) how many are wounded before the "money shot" was filmed!!!!!! That said,I would like to become proficient at 1K+ yards. However,not for shooting big game animals,they deserve more respect! memtb

David personally I like playing at 600 yards (as far as my local range goes). It's interesting to see what happens to the bullets in the wind,and far enough to show up flaws in me and the load, yadayada...

Besides, it makes 300 yards seem a whole lot easier!


If I lived out West I'd be banging away a lot further for yuks and fun.

For me it's common sense.

If I've never had a critter see me beyond a certain range in a certain terrain, it's NOT hunting...

The the number of yards vary... And it varies per type of game.

It used to be about sportsman, now for parts of the people it's how far I can shoot.

It's a valuable skill in some situations, but it's not part of hunting if it's a one sided game.

It has degenerated into a long-range, furry target shoot. I enjoy the quality rifles and the science of long-range shooting, but not necessarily as it applies to game animals.

One of the popular shows lost an elk lease in Wyoming, when the owner kept finding dead elk that they had shot at long range and not followed up. Another show had a cameraman quit because he got sick of watching the wounded animals not be recovered.

Only personal ethics will dictate what you do, as it is not illegal, but the art of getting within reasonable range of an animal and actually hunting it vs just shooting it, seems to be fading for some people. Now it is bragging rights to say they shot it at extreme range, instead of bragging about how close they got.

I talked to an outfitter in Wyoming and he actually had clients come in and say that they did not want to shoot at anything under 600 yards. Disgusting.

Just a bit more info. on this aspect of shooting.. For me 500 yards as Bob said is long.. We just came home from an elk hunt and saw elk at 500-1500 yards many times.. But it was too far for us.. The wind was horrible.. We ended up taking our game at about 200 yards.

I also enjoy long range shooting at varmints and plastic jugs. In the pasted I have shot some elk at beyond 600 yards, but in those days an elk in the freezer was important to our budget.. Fortunately we never lost an elk in long distance shooting.. Today, I generally limit my shots to 400 on elk and deer..

As for Gunworks, two of my good friends here in the area drew bighorn permits a couple years ago.. They both ended up hunting out of Cody.. Maybe with the same outfitter..
At any rate, one fellow is a hunter, but not a shooter.. His rifle is a plastic stocked .280 and he shoots factory ammo.. The other guy is a gun man.. He has several long range rifles and has made some long shoots on his own..
They both used the guides rifle for a ram at long range.. More than 700 yards.. The guide had a 6.5-284 both made successful shots.. So maybe it is something with the guides also.. Less stalking, I don't know, but to me the pleasure of hunting is using MY rifle.. But times are changing, and we must live with I guess.

Part of hunting is being undetected. I've killed WT deer from 20-30 yds that did not know that I was in the State.










Yes but what I've seen is some 'think' they can so they try. I know a guy in a deer lease where I hunted that bought a Ruger Compact 270 WSM with a SHORT barrel. He 'believed' the velocity quoted and "THOT" he could shoot at long range.
I do not know how many deer he wounded---I do know of some--- because I didn't hunt with him very much. YUK.
















Yes indeed. In 1 1/2 seconds an animal can turn from broad side to perpendicular. However some 'here' don't mind taking BUNG HOLE shots. IMO that ridiculous.

THIS is the reason I like/prefer rather fast bullets. The closer to 3100 fps, the better.


For the record I feel comfortable killing deer up to 400 yds. For some that's not long range. At an honest 400 yds a WT is NOT a large target.

IF things are NOT RIGHT I won't shoot at almost any range, and especially at long range.


Jerry

Good points, BobinNH!!

I strongly agree with your comments above, EXCEPT for the number of rounds you've cited. I don't think you need that many, and truthfully, most long-range hunting rifles won't survive an annual round count that high. You will need several thousand rounds lifetime to become truly expert, but true expertise is a rarity among hunters of any stripe IMHO. I am firmly in the camp of "shoot a lot, but shoot correctly only a few times, many times over". I've got maybe 2000 lifetime shots at 600+ yards in my lifetime, but because I have been able to shoot small numbers of rounds over many, many range sessions, I've become a lot more comfortable at those ranges than a guy who spends 3-4 weekends of 250-round-count shots prior to his first Western speedgoat hunt.

I have dabbled in long-range shooting and hunting in Wyoming and here in Texas. It's deceptively easy to make long shots with a good long range rifle, but doing so on living creatures is a lot different than ringing a gong over in the next township. Learning to dope the wind is the hardest part of long-range shooting, and experience can teach you a lot about doing it... but even a Carlos Hathcock would have trouble doing it every time in many parts of the West. So there's a level of uncertainty that no amount of practice can compensate for.

Most easterners aren't aware of how long shots can be out here, and how often stalking closer simply isn't practicable. I tend to prefer spot-and-stalk hunting over any other method, and I love to get close. Which is why 5 out of my last 7 speedgoat bucks were taken at ranges under 150 yards. The two I took at distance (350 and 540 yards) were taken in spots that were table-top flat, with sparse short grass and zero terrain available for putting on a sneak. Those two shots would have been unthinkable if I hadn't had the use of a really good rifle built for long-range shooting & hunting.

FWIW, I didn't have any long-range practice time with that borrowed rifle before I made those shots. However, I had done a LOT of practice that season--and for several seasons prior--at 400 and 600 yards with my 270 WSM and my tactical 308. Having a good rifle was crucial to my success, yes, but far more important was 5 years of moderately frequent long-range shooting at the range. I'm talking about a couple hundred rounds per year, over a 4-6 month period each year.

BTW, at the end of that hunt I bought that rifle from its maker, Pat Varland of Douglas, WY. I've killed 4 whitetails with it since, on my lease in TX, at ranges from 340 to 560 yards. I intend to take it on my trophy antelope hunt I have planned for September in the Red Desert of Wyoming, where it's a challenge to stalk within 600 yards of a trophy speedgoat buck, so a rifle that you can hit with at 1000 yards is a definite advantage.

But as for the TV show mentioned in the OP, phuq them. It's high-dollar advertising is all that show is. I won't waste the brain cells I'll lose by watching that kind of horseshit on TV. That sort of show has about as much about long-range hunting as watching porn teaches young men about how to make love to a woman.

This whole discussion blows my mind. I'm a true easterner and have never killed anything out side of the state of Maryland, nor have I ever killed anything over 125 yards. I've always wanted to go out west and kill a mule deer and/or a pronghorn. This makes me a little nervous, if I ever do book a hunt. Hell, Ive never even shot at a target over 150 yards. My biggest problem would be finding a place to shoot over 200, not to mention 500, 700 or even 1000 yards. Where the hell would I practice?

A 1000 yards? That's over a half a mile!

I'm used to shooting deer at point blank out to 50 yards.

Stone, If you get the chance, while ranges tend to be longer out here, with a good flat shooting rifle they are quite do able.. Like jawall, I like fast shooting calibers.. But I also like some bullet wt. at least 150 gr. When I drew my bighorn permit, I practiced shooting all summer to 500 yards.. When the time came, I needed it.. But the 150 gr. bullet dropped less than 2 feet at that distance.. This is easily achieved with quite a few calibers..

On the last trip for elk, our guide told us we would shoot at about 300 yards max.. We both got them at about 200.. For a .270 300 yards is do able with a dead on hold..

Can we all stop for a sec and calc the 1mph wind drift for our load at 900 yards? Can we pick up a 1mph change? It's surprising..

Thanks, that makes me feel a little better. If I do get out there, I'll need to find a field, maybe on the farm behind my house, and set up some targets out there. All of the ranges here are 100 yards. Hell, we aren't even allowed to use a rifle here. The only hunting rifle I own is a 30-06. I do shoot 150 gr. bullets though. I'm not sure if it will be accurate enough out to 300, much less than the operator being good enough out that far.

Stone, the old 06 with 150's shot in 3" high at 100 will be a bit low at 300, not much, but some as I remember.. A good bi pod will be a big help in open country also.. I ALWAYS have one on my rifles..
I think if you can find an accurate load for your 06, you will be surprised how you can hit at 300.. Just squeeze, and let your rifle do it..

I grew up in Eastern Pa. and also hunted Md. where a long rifle shot is still in bow range!!!
When I moved here I practiced a lot and learned to trust a good range finder. My longest shot on antelope is 615 yds. I have shot quite a few between 450 and that 615 and with practice it's not a big deal. There are lots of ways to determine , drop and such , but the practice is to figure out wind.
Wind is the big problem on long shots. And only practicing will help.