Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only Re-boring to 404 Jeff

I've had the hankering for a 404 Jeff, but every time I price one out, I get scared.

Is is possible for JES to re-bore a .375 H&H to .404 Jeff and tweak the feeding, or am I asking for trouble? That would save close to a grand if possible.

Chris

This is my suggestion, a N.H. Classic M-70 in .375 H&H, available on the used gun market for $800 or so. At least my experience.

The 24" barrel is already too heavy, drilling to .423" would lighten it.

The bolt face/extractor would need to be opened for the bigger .404J rim.

You'd need a RUM mag box and work done on the feeding ramp.

Here's what was done to a M-70 .300 RUM feed ramp, rebarreled to .404J.

Check out the "windows" in the RUM mag box, needed for the fatter .404J rounds.

DF

That's an option. I was planning to start with a CZ 550 most likely, but I'll keep an eye on a win classic as well.

Is the amount of work necessary the same for either action, or is one easier (cheaper) to convert than the other?

If found, could a 300 RUM be bored out as easily as a .375, or would that need a complete re-barrel?

Also, I'm not familiar with win actions. What is specific about the NH version you suggest? Is that the only version I want, or will others work?

I think you can do the NH M-70 conversion cheaper than a 550. And, for those who like the three position safety, you got it. And the NH trigger, you got it. No extra work.

And, I say the NH Classic because of the heavy .375 barrel, same contour for .458 and 416. The newer .375's have slimmer barrels, IIRC. The NH Classic is perfect for this conversion, IMO.

The problem with boring out a .300 RUM, the barrel is gonna be pretty thin and the gun may end up too light. I chose to rebarrel my .300 RUM for that reason, used a Walther. You can re-bore for half the cost of a new tube.

IME, having built one, you don't want an overly light ,404J...

That round has a good rep for being a killer without abusing the shooter. But, too much of a good thing can bite you.

DF

Link to my .404J build.

Not a rebore, but lots of info, pictures, etc.

You may pick up a few ideas.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/7846376/1

DF

Thank you sir. I'll check it out.

DF,

I noticed you said you were $1200 into it in the beginning with wood. I know it was a couple years ago, but I'm having trouble getting there in my head. Barrel is $500-$600 min, donor would be $600-$800 and that puts you at $1200 w/o stock or any smith work. Or the williams metal

Trying to remember...

Seems I sold parts off the $700 .300 RUM donor, getting the action cost down to less than $300. The Williams bottom metal was around $150 or so, wholesale from Brownells, the Walther around $300 and smith work around that much. That adds up to $1,150. Now, adding the $600 Legend blew that budget...

After rotator cuff surgery, I decided my .375 H&H was all the big gun I needed and traded the .404J for a 7x57 CZ 550 FS, the trading value of the .404J figured at around $1,700, so there was cash received.

The secret is getting the donor at the right price. This one had a scope and enough stuff to sell, ending up with a really low cost in the action. That's the beauty of those RUM's. People buy those things, shoot them a few times, buy ammo and then they're ready to sell or trade...

DF

Good deal. I'll just stay open to either a .375 Win, RUM Win donor, or a CZ 550 and see what comes up.

Are there any key models/times for a RUM donor I need to watch out for?

also, when you say N.H., you're referring to New Haven, CT stamped, right?

New Haven, right.

IMO, a RUM is a RUM as far as actions are concerned.

I'd stay away from Remington, just me. But, I guess you could open the bolt face and install a M-16/Sako type extractor.

DG/big boomers, CRF is considered cool, PF, not so much. CRF resale will be better than PF.

I still say a NH M-70 Classic .375 H&H, bored to .423" would be about the slickest, least expensive option for a solid, using .404J. Around $300+ to re-bore and a couple hundred for action work should about do it. You really don't need to buy a RUM mag box, just cut windows in the std. mag. box.

DF

Thanks again for all of your input. This project is a few down the list, but I just wanted to know what to keep an eye out for in case a unicorn pops up.

What kind of stocks do the NH 375's come with?

Any smiths top of the list for the re-bore job?

I also agree. I'm only considering a win 70 CRF or a CZ 550 for the action.

Tupperware/SS and walnut/blue steel.

Here's a link showing a photo of my NH SS Classic .375 H&H I cut to 21", because the 24" factory tube was way too heavy, handled like a club. MUCH better handling at 21".

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/9588885

Opening the bore to .423" will remove a good bit of that weight. If it's still too heavy, then bob to 23", 22", etc. I just don't think you'll need to.

DF


Edited to discuss smiths. I'd call around and see who would do this project. JES has a great reputation. Find out who is set up to do the .404J. And, if that smith can also open the bolt face/extractor for .404J, alter the feeding ramp, cut windows in the box mag, tweak the action for optimal feeding.

I made up some dummy rounds with the hardest to feed bullets I could find, thinking if they got those feeding, everything else would be a breeze.

Dave at ID&T barreled my .404J on the RUM donor. You may have to use two smiths if the rebore shop can't or won't do the action work. A few phone calls should answer those questions.

Here's a link to more .404J stuff, including photo of the Woodleigh Hydrostatically Stabilized 400 gr. Solids I loaded as dummy rounds for the smith to use, tweaking the action. If those things cycle, anything will...

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/7030594/4

DF

JES doesn't list .404J.

These folks do. http://www.cutrifle.com/reboring.html

DF


Edited: you have to go up four calibers for a rebore.

So, .375/.400/.416/.423. should be four calibers.

I guess from that and if I'm figuring right, one should be able to make a .404J from a .375 H&H.

Definitely deserves a phone call.

DF

I checked out the site. I was hoping for an email, but I'll try to give them a call and get details/their thoughts.

Although, with the added cost (over JES), it's pretty close to the cost of a re-barrel once you factor in the cost recovery from the barrel.

It's about the cost of a new barrel, but not a new barrel installed. That's usually another $300 and this project will also need action work, at least $200, either way.

Hard to figure a new barrel, installed, for much less than $600.

You won't get much recovery from a used factory barrel.

DF

Correct. $345 for the re-bore + say $100 for a barrel (about what I get for Savage tubes) gets pretty close. Either way, it will depend on what actions falls into my lap and when.

There's a NH .375 in the classifieds right now, but the sights are gone and $1k seemed a bit high.

Yeah, those have been going for around $800-850.

$1K is too much.

If they're selling for that, then I'd shop for a used RUM and rebarrel. My .300 RUM donor was $700 and it had a Nikon Buckmark scope. Not an expensive scope, but I did sell it for a few dollars.

I see RUM's for sale, probably for the reason I posted earlier...

DF

I should get my barnum and bailey 375 H&H or whatever you called it drilled to 404 Jeff.

Agree with Tarheel, if I gotta pay a premium for a .375 H&H donor, I'd just as soon find a M-70 RUM donor and stick a Walther .423 tube on it. I say Walther, there aren't that many making .423 barrels.

gunner, you might miss that Holland after it became a Jeffery.

You probably missed your .416R after it became a .505 Gibbs.

A .404J may feel a bit intimidated in your big gun safe...

DF

Found a line of a .375 win 70 wth VX3 1.5-5 for $850. We'll see if it materializes.

I checked a few makers on barrels. Seems Douglas, McGowen, and Krieger all had options or said they would make one off the top of my head.

Ask about turnaround time. Some of those may be a LONG time out...

That sounds like a great deal, scope's worth around $300, gun wouldn't be but $550.

That kinda deal may make a re-bore feasible.

And, reportedly, they shoot about as well as a new barrel.

DF

Agreed. I just hope it's still available and the guy responds. It even appears to have a decent stock, very much like the wood you had on your 404.

That 404 would be heavy medium bore heaven, it'd fit nicely next to the 400 Whelen, 416 Taylor and fill the gap on up to an old Safari Grade Browning in 458 WM, but alas you are probably right, boring my 375 H&H would then put me on the hunt for a really nice pre-64 375, that would require some serious leather slapping there.

The other option is to build a 404 on the standard , inexpensive Mauser in the exact same way that Jeffery did them in 1905.

Nice rifle Phil. I've thought about that route, but it seemed like once paid for all the tweaks on a Mauser (D&T, bend bolt, etc, etc) it didn't make financial sense. CZ 550 .375 actions can be had for $600ish.

Is there a better way I don't know of? I do like the trimmer option I think.

Chris

So Phil, you have captured my interest with the photos.
Questions:

1. No magazine box?

2. Has the action been altered to allow the bolt to extend more reward when cycling? I see a lot of metal removed from the top front of the rear bridge.

3. How much metal removed from the bottom lug of the receiver? I would love to see details in a photo or two.

Would like photos of the sights and of the stock.

Stock dimensions would be handy also: LOP, drop at heel, drop at front of comb, any cast off?

What a novel concept, wood for the magazine walls and front!

I have a box full of M98 actions and a 404 is on the to do list. I would like to make it look like an original.

Thanks!

Cabriolet, the wood forms the sides of the magazine box and this photo shows that there is a carefully inletted steel plate at the front.



The feed ramp was releived as little as possible with most of the length gained at the rear, as you can see from how slim the back of the magazine box is.

Intresting also is the fact that after 102 years the stock still has no cracks even though it lacks cross bolts.

One interesting thing is the taper of the barrel as it is not a straight taper but has a curve to it out to the front sling swivel and most of the weight is in the center of the rifle.









I don't remember the stock dimentions but as you can see it is set up for iron sights. It also weighs 8 1/2 pound even and is well balanced. It was delivered to it's owner in Jan of 1907 for an Alaskan Brown bear hunt

I was told by Jeffery that at the time they farmed out their rifles in batches of up to 10 to various local gun builders and I have seen other rifles of the same era that were obviously built by different men.

And compared with a Rigby 416 the Jeffery 404 was slimmer, lighter, cheaper and noticibly easier to carry





And the best thing about it is that it is still as good today as it was 102 years ago

Very cool stuff Phil, thanks for your posts. Lotta history there.....

Many thanks Phil. I will print the photos for reference.

I have reamers, brass, dies. Need to order a barrel.

After I finish my 450 Rigby project a 404 in the style of your rifle will be next.

I love the British style of Mauser big bores.

For a bit of humor post the photos in the Gunsmithing forum over on Accurate Reloading. The nay sayers and perfectionists, especially the "arm chair experts", will cry and whine.

Thanks again!

thp,

cut rifle.com is Classic Barrel Gunworks in Prescott AZ. That's Danny Pedersen's shop. He has re-bored 2 Ruger Hawkeyes for me - an African & an Alaskan - from .375" to 0.423", aka 404. Although my rifles use the Ruger case rather than the Jeffery, they duplicate modern ballistics, 400 gn bullet at 2425-2475 fps MV.

I believe that Danny is set up to do the action work, based on my visit to his shop a couple of years ago. He offers reasonable prices - 1/2 or less than a re-barrel - quick turn around in my case, personal attention, and great results.

Both my rifles were accurate in 375 and equally so in 404. Worth a phone call to his shop (928) 772-4060. Great cartridge choice. Good luck.

thp,

Sent you a PM about some possible rifle options for your 404 project.

Tried calling a couple times with no luck.

If I ever bear hunt with Phil wonder if I could leave a big enough tip to leave with that 404 too?

Beautiful piece Sir!

I'd like to have just the interest on that "tip"...

Yep, great piece.

Phil has some pretty "toys", for sure...

DF

Sure nuff Buddy.

I'm starting to give up on the re-bore idea. Cut rifle.com has not answered the phone in 2 weeks and they don't have an email. I'm not even sure how to reach them at this point.

Finally got thorough. He stopped taking any work till May. Seems like a very good guy

Came across a nice looking .375 H&H, but it's in Alska and he won't ship. So any of you AK guys can give it a look $650:

http://www.armslist.com/posts/5140276/fairbanks-alaska-rifles-for-sale---375-h-h-winchester-model-70