Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Double grouping, I'm missing something

Have a LH Ruger 77 Hawkeye .243 which double groups badly. I've been fiddling around with rifles a while now and I've tried everything I can think of but figured someone here might be able to remind me of something I've missed.

- Action has been glass bedded into the stock by a fellow who knows what he's doing, he's done several for me with no issues. Barrel doesn't move when loosening/tightening front action screw.
- Barrel is free floated to the point where a double thickness of note paper passes freely between barrel and stock.
- Magazine box has been relieved so it's not binding anywhere, in fact I took so much off it rattles ever so slightly with everything tightened down.
- Front screw very tight, rear screw tight, middle screw just barely snug.
- Have tried four different bullets, three different powders - H4831, Reloder 15 and Hunter - with three or four charge weights each, three different seating depths for each - kissing, .020" and .050".
- Tried two different scopes, including one fixed Leupold 12x I've used for testing rifles for the last 20 years and it is rock solid.

The rifle consistently grouped 2 and 1 for my pressure series then when I switched to four shot groups after finding top powder charges it still throws two and two, sometimes up to 2" apart. Some groups have two together then another two sort of together but way apart, and I mean like 3" out. One flyer in a group is my fault, flyers and double grouping on every group is the rifle.

So - before rebarreling which I really don't want to do, or wrapping the rifle around a tree which would relieve my frustration but ultimately is not cost effective, what other things can I check or look at?

I see you said you swapped scopes. I would still try another. I think that't the problem

Three possibilities I can think of:

1. The scope base is not snugged down properly. You'll lose accuracy long before you can feel any wiggle. Blue Loctite and a torque screwdriver are your friends.

2. Once in a long while, the front base screw will be long enough to reach through to the threads on the barrel. This gives the convincing illusion that the front of the base is secure. Count the number of turns to remove the screw with and without the base. If they are the same, that's your problem.

3. It takes a good "touch" to detect barrel rubs. Sometimes the rub is so slight that you can slide the "feeler" through with only a little resistance.

Another thing to check is for the bolt handle touching the stock when closed.
I would take the rings and bases off and re mount that 12x.

Just a thought and I know you said bedding was good...
When you tighten the screws on a good bedding job the screws should go from loose to farmer tight in about 1/4 turn and the action should not move in the stock as it is tightened. You may want to check that and also tighten them in a different sequence to make sure that each screw tightens up that same way..
I would question that it is the barrel. IME they usually will pattern rather than shift POI.
Also maybe try some pressure on the barrel near the forend and try putting a business card under the action just aft of the recoil lug and see what happens.

How rough is the bore, is it fouling bad after two shots?
Two things I would consider before doing anything expensive or drastic.
Have it cryogenically treated for stress relief and fire lap the bore with one of the bullet kits on the market.
It may be worth a shot. It has been for me. My most accurate rifle had the barrel cryo'd at "300 below".

Makes one want to pull their hair out don't it.

Are the shots done with a cold barrel?

Double check the scope/mount.

I have had some good groups shooting H-414,you know one of those powders that are not new and fashionable.

Whatever you do have a good time doing it.

As others mentioned I'd be checking ring bases and only tighten one screw at a time to ensure they are tightening, one screw not properly tightened will cause double grouping!

Several people have mentioned mount bases, and base-screws, but it's a Ruger Hawkeye, and they don't have mount bases. Instead the rings go directly on the action.

I would check scope/ring alignment, which could have affected the performance of all the scopes you tried.

Whatever it was it's fixed now. I got home early today so took everything apart, scope mounts and rifle, and put it all back together carefully.

Checked that the magazine box was installed properly and re-tightened the action screws - front almost tight, rear same, then tightened the front that last 1/4 turn really tight and then the rear "tight", then the middle one just barely snug. Checked the free floating clearance again, then rechecked the mag box to make sure it wiggled freely in its compartment.

Re-aligned the scope rings and kept them aligned with one of those Wheeler alignment bars as they were carefully tightened down, then checked that the scope slid back and forth easily while fully bottomed in the bottom halves. Then put the top halves back on and tightened each screw in a back and forth pattern, only torquing to 25 inch pounds.

Loaded up 15 rounds, five each of the three most promising loads (like I could really tell before ) and headed out to the range with an hour of sunlight left. Three five shot groups went into 1 1/2", 1" and 1 7/8", but they are all fairly evenly distributed. These were with that same Leupold 12X I'd been using. The bullets were all seated at .050" from the lands. A rule of thumb I picked up here says 2 and 1 back off the lands, evenly dispersed but large groups go toward the lands. So, I'm going to go back to kissing lands and try again.

Who knows what it was, maybe I had something binding when I put the rifle together the last time or quite as likely did have the scope rings misaligned a tiny bit. I fiddled with those some while re-installing them and did see how you can get them tightened down even without being fully square to the receiver - or at least they can feel like they are tightened down.

Anyway, this is a big relief. The rifle is otherwise very nice with very decent wood and the gunsmith did a fine job on the trigger. Now at least I can get back to normal load workup without an urge to throw the whole rifle at the target.

ALL of the Ruger rings I have checked for alignment have been, in a word, atrocious. Extensive lapping helped.

Leupold rings, or at least the ones I've used as replacements, have been much, much better. Excellent alignment and just a touch of lapping to take the sharp edges off.

Now, If I get a new Ruger, I just toss the rings and buy Leupolds rather than fool with them.

Don't feel lonely Jim. I have been fighting with a Mk II SS boat paddle off and on for years. I put a Ruger factory laminate stock on it a while back.

I got serious with it this winter. Rebedded it again, sanded out the barrel channel again, relieved the mag box, relieved the bolt handle, filed the stock out around the trigger guard. And purchased a Super Sniper 10X.

The 3-9X 4200 is going back on it as soon as trouble shooting is finished.

It is a lot better now than last year. I shot a half dozen four shot groups Sunday. Every group was 3 inside 2 moa with a flyer out another 1 1/2 inches.

The last group fired was with the forearm shimmed. I put two thicknesses of paper from the front of a spiral notebook under the barrel. The POI raised six inches, and the group more than doubled in size.

It is packaged up now for delivery to the 'smith. He says he likes Krieger. I think I will have him make it 24 inch with a magnum sporter taper in 260 again as I am flush with components. Probably a Timney while he has it.

I purchased two of these 260's and gave one to my son. I finally got his to shoot around 2 moa bedded and floated in the synthetic stock.

Good luck with your Ruger, I hope you get it dialed in.

Glad things worked out . I'll bet that those groups tighten up some now.

So what is your best load playing with a ruger in 243 also. Mine double grouped at max loads also fine when I backed off loads. Best loads were with RL 17 and RS Hunter with 105 A Max.

Haven't found it yet as I only was able to fix that really bad grouping this past Monday. Going out tomorrow morning with 10 different combos and a much longer OAL to give those a try. Figuring the classic 40-41 grains of H4350 with a Hornady 100 gr. SP ought to do well, as will 42 grain or so of the same powder with a Sierra 85 HPBT. That Sierra shoots well in everything I've tried it in.

Also have most of a pound of Big Game on the shelf and am planning on using it up in this Ruger. It should do well with the 87 gr. Hornady V-Max but still need to work up to a top load with it.