Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting When will hunting bullets of 358, 9.3, and 375 caliber get some BC love?

The 6.5, 7, 30, 338 calibers have all had really good ballistic coefficient developments for hunting bullets over the years. But the best BC's of these bigger calibers seriously drop off after 338. Will the bullet manufacturers ever see the potential market there?

I realize there are a couple boutique companies making some of non traditional construction, but I'm looking for a more traditional bonded lead type core. Nosler Accubonds for example: they make a 300 gr 338 cal but their biggest 375 cal accubond is also 300 gr. Come on.

Barrel twist rate is the stumbling block

The 250 AccuBond in 9.3 isn't to bad at 0.494 and the 286 Partition at 0.482. Good BC's for hunting bullets.

If your looking for BC's in the 6's and 7's in medium calibers you will be looking at 300 to >400gr bullets, to drive these at meaningful speeds, 2800 fps or more then you are looking at burning 100gr of powder +.

Generally not practical for most game animals. Further more a high BC smaller diameter bullet like the a 243,264,284 and 308 can be very manageable ,which insures more consistent precision, which negates the requirement for uber power as the bullets can be surgically placed. There is a balance though.

Most animals that are regularly hunted only require a precision hit with a bullet between 24 and 30 caliber thus the high BC's for long range.

It seems like the best BCs and SDs in "ordinary" but good performing stuff are 7mm and .338. I really like the Hornady .338-250 for example, and it seems like you can't duplicate its BC and SD with an "ordinary" but good choice in any larger caliber. In .30 I would be looking for something around 208 gr, and there isn't much. I know that some of the "modern" specialties are supposed to give penetration and stay together with lower SDs but I'd rather stay with a SD over .3 and a BC over .4.

Insufficient market demand. Someone mentioned twist rate. Like the .270, standard twist rates don't support the long bullets. Given the usual use those calibers get, the bullets currently available are just fine.

Sorry to say, the potential market is only in your mind.

I didn't think about the twist rate, that makes sense. One more hurdle of different thinking that would need to happen.

I guess I should put my interest into context. I'm not really interested in super magnum ultra fast magnums for extreme long distance. I am thinking for the 375 H&H class. A 0.6-0.7 BC could extend the range that hunting bullets could reliably perform on game. For example, a 375 H&H would send a 300 gr accubond (bc .485) out around 2500 fps and drop below 2000 around 300 yds, which is starting to fall into questionable territory. It would be really nice to be able to reach to 400 with comfort that shooting skill is still the only challenge. Knowing that a 338 caliber accubond has a bc of .72 just eats away at me.

I know I may be looking for a way to have my cake and eat it too, but I have a wonder if these cartridges can have the flexibility like the 338 does. I hunting in Alaska with one rifle, at least one rifle per hunt. I love having my 375 for stuff less than 200 yards but you never know when the vegetation and terrain won't allow that.

Never, because there is no market there. Even the 338 Lapua is overkill for most, a fast 30 is all the "heavy" rifle any LR shooter needs, unless you have a responsibility for punching hole in SCUD missle tanks or the like. That is a small group and they are already adequately supplied, I think.

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. This isn't about greater power it's about better efficiency. I also see 338 Lapua as overkill, and frankly, not a good use of all that powder. I'm looking for simply a hunting bullet development that extends the range for normal 358, 9.3, and 375 hunters, which may not be as many 30 caliber hunters, but we are still a noticeable portion of the market.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/14...iameter-350-grain-hollow-point-boat-tail
Here is the only viable Mid caliber(heavy) High BC bullet for your tastes that is not a machined bronze bullet.....
Would probably kill most anything you wanted and really needs a large case to get decent velocity, say a minimum of a .378 weatherby case. A .375 CHeyTach would be better.....

I wouldn't consider an SMK a reliable hunting bullet

Believe it or not a 3/8" diameter bullet weighing 350 grs.even if it manages to expand only a tiny bit will kill the heck out of anything 99.99% of the game animals ever taken on this planet.
The calibers you stated .358, .366 and .375 generally are 1-14" twists and most .358 are 1-16", you are gonna need some one to make barrel suitable for a limited need. Then having to put up with either a really heavy gun and or muzzle break, the recoil is gonna preclude serious long range accuracy for most. Or just spent 10k for a Cheytac and have all you would ever want.
JMHO

All things being equal, a controlled expansion bullet beats an SMK. And like you say, that 350 SMK is designed for the 100+ powder grain cases. I'm not asking for something like a 0.8 BC anyways. Something like 300-315 grain .375 around .6-.65 would be sweet. Seeing that Nosler can make 260 grains be around .47, it may be possible without complicating things like appropriate twist rates.

How about .338-250 accubond at 2500 from .338-06 for moderate recoil and most of the other features you want.

no kidding man. Been waiting for a .5 and above BC for my 378 Bee

hahahahahahah ! wow ! just hahah wow ! a .600 bc bullet in the tired old anemic 375 H&H.... really and do what exactly ? shoot at 211 yards ? thanks for da laughs....

44 magnum bullets need some BC love but I wouldn't hold my breath.

akmtnrunner, I feel your pain! I've been begging Barnes to make a .375 TTSX at around 290 to 300 grains. Should give it a BC somewhere around .500. Which should be a good performer in many of the .375's. I finally gave up at went to the 250 TTSX,so now they'll probably build it!! I would guess that I'm not the only one that would like to see a better long range "hunting" bullet for the .375's. It appears that Barnes is not listening! memtb

Think one of the problems is those hole sizes represent a miniscule number of rifles sold. The other being bullet weight goes up and powder charge realistically goes up with it. BC isn't much good with large rock trajectory so your into recoil which most seem to be trying to fix, not increase. Jm2pennies.

W

Its a myth that these calibers have rock trajectories. For example a 260 grain AB (BC 0.473) from 375 Ruger is actually 2" higher at 300 yards than 225 grain AB (0.55) from a 338 Win Mag despite it's BC disadvantage.

One thing good about big heavy bullets in 375, you can lobe them in and they are pretty consistent even with some wind thrown in. Another plus is they really plow through the brush and stay on track.

Huh?

Yup,
no more 'shrooms for that guy !

Out to 225 yards or so, BC is not much of a concern for me. This is the range that both my 358 Win as well as my 9.3x62 excel. For the 358 Win I use 225 grain NP's and my 9.3 likes 286 grain Norma Oryx and 286 grain NP's. I really like both calibers…a lot.

Hunters with 375 should listen up, this fella knows what he's talking about. LOL

Left to right.

270 Hornady, 250 TTSX Barnes, 250 GMX Hornady, 260 Nosler Accubond, 300 Sierra Gameking, 300 GS Custom HV, and 300 Cutting edge.

BC's in order some very questionable. .385, .424, .430, .486, .475, .480 and .823.





From the shapes it does not make sense but then again.........

Hammer has a 395 that looks like an arrow.

True but in order to launch that 395 at any appreciable velocity you need a necked down 50 BMG

My 358 Win and 9.3x62 are two of my favorites that I have grown to really like. For hunting, I load 225 gr. Nosler Partitions for my 358 Win and 286 gr. Norma Oryx for my 9.3x62. Both are very accurate in my rifles.

To get higher bc's in 375 cal, the bullets HAVE to be heavier and longer with a sleek profile and you will need minimum of 10 twist barrels, faster is better (and longer than 26", preferably 30" ) and bigger cases to shoot them out of,
the 375 H&H is at the very bottom of the long range food chain, especially in factory twist rifles with 24" and shorter barrels ,

There are 375 cal bullets and cartridges designed specifically for long range hunting and I'm not talking about a paltry 500 yard poke either, one only needs to man up and cough up the cash to acquire them,

there is a huge and fantastic world outside of factory crap rifles and cartridges with the limitations they force on you


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Been shooting 250 Sierras (and BBC's) from 375 H&H's at 2900 fps+ for 30+ years. To 400 yards it stays ahead of any 250 gr load for the 338 Win Mag and shots about as flat as a 338 with 210's. Seen this from actual shooting, not reading tables....one reason my 338's went down the road.

Think Swampland is right about bullets,cases and barrels for the 375 bore and playing at real long range.Heavier bullets, bigger cases,and faster twists required.

I have a 10 twist Krieger about to be installed, but it will stay a 375 H&H because real long barrels and heavy weight rifles are over my head. Range limitations of 500-600 yards with a 375 are good enough for me.

Those 286gr. Nosler partitions are no laughing matter in the 9.3x62mm. The CZ 550 I used to have was damn accurate out to 350 yards with that bullet. At 100 yards it was like wasting bullets, because I always knew where they were going to go:





As for my 375, It is accurate, but not as accurate. I also only shoot 3 shot groups with that ol girl...:



However, this bullet and rifle are still game getters out to 500 yards, so why do I need a higher bc pill???? If I were going to snipe something at 1000 yards, then maybe. But until then I'll keep using partitions and keep it simple...

Your last statement is exactly what most 375 H&H shooters already know and have exploited it's effectiveness at those ranges where it works best, sticking a heavier bullet in it won't make it fly flatter regardless of bc gains, need more fuel to do that

awesome groups by the way, more proof that fat bullets can be shot with precision

Damn 375's are easier to get to shoot than a lot of those anorexic, hyper fussy small bores.

Mine is pretty predictable.. I like that in a rifle...

yes sir, I agree

the faster you ship them out the better they group, the 300 gr Swift A Frames seem to shoot best right around 2950 fps with a good stable powder, H 4350..... an awesome combination for general hunting
( generals are hard to drop, need more power )

rifle doubles as a long range rig with the 320 gr CEB MTH bullets with a .830 bc at 2700 fps, nice and smooth in a 9 lb 4 oz rifle

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edit**
finally got that dang photobucket to upload pic, .......
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Very nice shooting guys. Now where is jorge1 at??? I know he has a damn good shooting 375 too...

from left to right in pic, my 375's are 3rd, 6th and last
targets shown above shot with the 375 PRO, basically harnesses the power of the 378 Wby in a shorter Improved case with zero bullet into powder capacity loss due to throat design, made to run in 5 round 3.850" Accurate mags...... smokes the 375 Rum by 100 fps or so...
got a batch of the 435 gr Chinchaga Steel Tip Hybrids on the way for the 375 Mjolnir (375/500 Jeffery Imp)... the 375 Warlord is under construction

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Swamplord you're an intrepid force of nature on these wildcats....LOL!

I can't keep up!

I will stick with the anemic one way over on the left. But I do enjoy your posts. Pretty impressive line up!

what is the 375 warlord based on?

the 375 Warlord is off the 585 Hubel Express case, 2nd case from the left in pic below
Chey Tac rim size and 192 gr h20 case capacity in 375 cal

also have the 375 Executioner which is off the 500 AHR case, 4th in pic
338 Lapua rim size and 160 gr case h20 capacity, same as 375 CheyTac
ongoing project with 32" 7.5 tw Rock Creek barrel

Did I mention that there is a wonderful and glorious world outside of factory rifles and cartridges ?

the only bullet diameter I like more than the 375 cal is 9.53 mm !

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What kind of ballistics can one expect from the warlord.

same as the 375 VM2 but on the CheyTac boltface

LOL... Too funny.

OK - so if someone did make a bullet with a high BC in those calibers, the projectile would weight so much, you wouldn't want to shoot it. the velocity would be low.. And the drop would be nasty.

Consider to get decent BC's in a 30 cal, you need to. Use a ~209 grain bullet, by the time your at 338 it's at least 225 grains..

Spot

Yeah all that is completely true but I bet those big 375's pack some real ass at distance and it's fun to see some people step up outside the box and experiment with those big wildcats.

I have to stand back and admire at this point but I do get a kick out of Swampland's work with these big wildcat cases. Great stuff!

I agree - more power to him.

If one has a muzzle break, hey go for it...

They are definitely in thier own class.

Remember though, that most the young guys who want to impress folks tend to go for the heavy stuff... It isn't before most of them hit 27 or so before real common sense kick's in...

for some of us, that never happens

True! LOL!

The 375 PRO looks like it'd be more steps/work than I'd be willing to go through but I gotta tell ya, that is one sultry looking cartridge!!!!

From Facebook...

"Had a great day today shooting ELR with Team Applied Ballistics. The first 20 teams shot today and have 15 more tomorrow before they pick the top ten for the shoot off. After the first day of shooting it sounds like we may be in the lead with Mitchell Fitzpatrick shooting his new Lethal Precision Arms (375 Lethal Magnum) with the new Bryan Litz 375 Berger prototype 400 grain bullet, while Paul Phillips and Bryan Litz Spotting for him. Mitch hit every target on his first two attempts and finished strong. More shooting tomorrow. I wanted to send a huge Thank you for our sponsors, McMillan Group International, Applied Ballistics LLC, Berger Bullets, Nightforce Optics, and Lethal Precision Arms.
Today we shot targets ranging from 1500 to 2000 yards. After they pick the top ten we will be shooting targets out to 2 Miles for the Finals
Last but not least a special thank you to Ian Klemm for loaning me his Vortex Razor HD 30 MM Spotting scope with a Moa milling reticle. It worked very well figuring out exact adjustments upon seeing impacts."

the "375 Lethal Magnum" that Bryan Litz was shooting is very similar to my 375 Warlord, both are off the 585 Hubel Express case with minor case dimension differences, the 375 Warlord predates the new 375 Lethal Mag by a couple years

400 gr? damn too big for my 378 bee!

Mitchell Fitzpatrick just won the "King of 2 Miles" shoot with the 375 Lethal Mag, shooting the 400 gr Berger bullet !

now who was the fool that says ya can't shoot big magnums accurately ?

Not bad shooting for a 19 YO...

I see Bryan took second shooting a .338 Edge w/300gr Bergers, Paul took forth shooting Bryan's rifle.

Sorry, I meant to write 250 (not 225) grain for the 338 win mag vs a 260 grain for the 375 Ruger.

A lot of hunters miss out on the potential ballistics of the 9.3 X 62 if they don't max their loads and use bullets like the 250 AB (.494 BC) and 286 NP (.482 BC).

Using the best powder to date for the 9.3 X 62, which is RL-17, I'm getting 1/2 moa from the 250 AB at 2700+ fps. That's good to 500yds with a little over 2000 ft-lbs remaining.PSI is about 63,000. That's in the realm of the .338 Win Mag which, incidentally, has a SAAMI spec of 64,000 psi but the rifle is the exact same rifle as mine in a Tikka T3. I figure the Tikka T3 which has the same barrel 1.6" inches shorter, and heavier at the chamber due to the cartridge being slimmer, is also safe at 64,000 psi max. I shot an excellent bl. bear last Oct 1st with that load, not at 500 yards but at 85 with 3630 ft-lbs of kinetic smash remaining. The 286 NP is even better with 2100ft-lbs remaining at 500 yds. Need a long range elk or moose gun? I have one but it's not for sale!

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

If only those 9.3 tikka's were brought into the USA . . . And finding those 250 AB is next to impossible