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Joined: Apr 2008
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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If it was a single action, then it would be a 45 Colt. DA, then a 44 mag.
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Just make sure you use a JSP or a JHP....everyone knows that Hardcast don't expand enough to kill things.....
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I toss my vote for .45 Colt........I'm fortunate to have both a 629 and a 625 Mountain Gun......and the .45 Colt flavored gun will be the last one to ever leave my grasp.
Last edited by frogman43; 02/23/16.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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They don't look as pampered when they almost go the entire animal.... ...and I missed out on the BHN figures, meplat size and impact speed courses. 12 BHN is plenty hard, especially when kicked out of a 4" 44, 1,200 fps. at a deer 30 yards away. 6 isn't at 900 fps with a flat face. I would be really unhappy if my bullet's nose got mangled like that and it wasn't a hollow-point. How hard (or soft) is that bullet? How can you tell the shoulder is engaging when the bullet looks like that, or am I missing something? This was just to show what I think of "ballistic gel". Its really a 7 BBHN nose with a 28 BHN shank. It performed exactly as I wanted it to.
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Again, the Keith bullets I recovered from ballistic gel showed no wear whatsoever on the shoulder.
I expect LBT's to do a hell of a lot more than cut a bullet sized hole. Spot on and the bullet in Brain's bullet in his article looked a bit soft. I don't see the shoulder doing jack and I've shot a lot of animals over the decades. If Brians bullet was "soft", would not the nose expand like Craig says and have none of those signs of wear?
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Again, the Keith bullets I recovered from ballistic gel showed no wear whatsoever on the shoulder.
They don't show any wear on the meplat edge, either, because its ballistic gel. [img:center] [/img]
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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The LFN's mimic most Keith designs, since most have similar sized meplats and case intrusion, both of which respond with mild to wild loads. FWIW, the holes in and out with the Keith look like paper punch holes...the LFN's at the same speed don't leave holes any bigger.
If the LFN mimics the "Keith" design, then it probably isn't really a Keith bullet -- that term is misused more than "LBT-style." The 429421 has a rather smallish me plat and it shouldn't be expected to produce as big a wound channel as a real LFN. Also haven't found the LFN to be velocity dependent to produce a good would channel. IMHO. Some 44's: RCBS 250-K, H&G 503 (Elmer went to H&G after Lyman peeved him), LBT 280 LFN, a 38 OWC LBT. I'll let you decide..
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Some 45's: 260 LFN, 280 LFN, RCBS 270-SAA, LBT 340 LFN.
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Some more food for thought. Above I posted the 150gr. LBT 38 OWC.
It has a larger meplat than both the LBT and Keith bullets.
Anyone care to guess if it creates a larger wound channel (leave overall penetration out of this one)?
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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For the 44 lovers.... FWIW, Elmer ditched frontal area to shoot really far and that is the primary reason he left the 45 Colt; that and the 300gr rifle bullets he tried kicking out of SAA's were way too much.
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Joined: Dec 2013
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Elmer ditched the .45 because they weren't strong enough for what he wanted to accomplish.
The material I use is Sim-Test and it stops a 230gr Federal HST from a .45ACP in 4". It stopped a 225gr .338 in 11". It's tougher stuff than ballistic gel.
Why ballistic testing media? Because it'll actually stop a bullet, where they usually exit on critters. It's VASTLY more consistent to compare loads to each other than shooting critters and it's more consistent from test to test than wet newsprint. If you think you can do better, you're more than welcome to try.
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Joined: Jul 2015
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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45 Colt for heavy bullets 44 Mag for lighter bullets at flatter trajectories Please explain why they are pigeon-holed in such a way. The question was 'which one would you pick', I answered according to my own preferences. Both are very flexible but to me, the 44 is better when velocity and flatter trajectories are more important. The 45 meanwhile has the edge in heavier bullet options and when velocity is not as important. Here's a good writing on the topic http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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I have 3 "Old" Vacqueros, two in 45 Colt and one in 44 Mag. One 45 is a Bisley and the 44Mag is also a Bisley.
I went on a search for a Buffalo killer with these three shooters and used 300g slugs in each application and found the 45 reaching an over pressure mode earlier than the 44 Mag. All loads were with H110 powder and the 44Mag peaked out at 1377 fps and the 45s at 1213 fps. So for a comparison of just horsepower, in MY GUNS, the 44Mag was the velocity king.
In an accuracy comparison, IN MY GUNS, the 44 Mag was able to produce the best results.
So IN MY GUNS, my choice for Buffalo or Bear hunting would be the 44 Mag.
Every gun comes off the line with slightly different specs and either one of these would do the job efficiently I just went with the 44 Mag for the accuracy comparison. As "they" say your mileage..........
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I'm curious what the over pressure signs were in your 45.
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The 45 meanwhile has the edge in heavier bullet options and when velocity is not as important. But it doesn't have an edge. As I posted earlier, I tested two identical guns (4 5/8" Rugers) with every heavy cast bullet tested by Hodgdon. The .44: 310gr at 1314fps 320gr at 1282fps 330gr at 1226fps 355gr at 1130fps The .45's: 300gr at 1176fps 325gr at 1241fps 335gr at 1225fps 360gr at 1060fps Where is the .45's heavy bullet advantage? I'm not trying to be combative but this seems to be a popular myth that the .45Colt is somehow better with heavy bullets. I don't think this perception is based in reality.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 31,038 Likes: 30 |
45 Colt for me......have this Ruger along with a couple lever 45's mucho boolits and other components too...... Oh......forgot have two Marlin 44's too.........
T R U M P W O N !
U L T R A M A G A !
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Wow.
Sure a lot of heartache over a couple hundredths of an inch and less than a hundred fps (if any).
And muzzle blast? Who shoots these things without hearing protection? I quit doing that decades ago.
My answer to the OP's question has always been either/or, depending on the price and condition of the gun - assuming starting from scratch (no dies, brass, or other previously owned component). For the non-reloader, it's an automatic ".44".
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
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Joined: Aug 2002
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
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Well, I ended up with a 45 Colt. After listening to the arguments for and against each one (I thought the thread was very civil for the most part BTW) it came down to this; I've owned several 44 Mags in the past but never a 45 Colt. It was really that simple in the end and reason enough for me. After the decision was made I planned on getting a Blackhawk convertible in the Colt/ACP variety but walked in a local gunshop and they had a SS Vaquero .45 Birdshead sitting on the shelf and it was calling my name. I've always wanted a birdshead revolver too and this kills two birds with one stone. I'm thinking this is going to be a fun pistol. Thanks for all the replies. There was actually a lot to be learned in those 4 pages. Terry
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 31,007 Likes: 11 |
The 45 meanwhile has the edge in heavier bullet options and when velocity is not as important. But it doesn't have an edge. As I posted earlier, I tested two identical guns (4 5/8" Rugers) with every heavy cast bullet tested by Hodgdon. The .44: 310gr at 1314fps 320gr at 1282fps 330gr at 1226fps 355gr at 1130fps The .45's: 300gr at 1176fps 325gr at 1241fps 335gr at 1225fps 360gr at 1060fps Where is the .45's heavy bullet advantage? I'm not trying to be combative but this seems to be a popular myth that the .45Colt is somehow better with heavy bullets. I don't think this perception is based in reality. This is from Hogdon reloading site 44 mag BULLET WEIGHT330 GR. BTB LFN GC ManufacturerWinchester Powder296 Bullet Diameter.430" C.O.L.1.730" Starting Load Grains19.0 Velocity (ft/s)1,239 Pressure30,200 CUP Maximum Load Grains20.8 Velocity (ft/s)1,350 Pressure38,800 CUP 45 Colt BULLET WEIGHT335 GR. CPB LFN GC ManufacturerHodgdon PowderH110 Bullet Diameter.452" C.O.L.1.680" Starting Load Grains20.5 Velocity (ft/s)1,109 Pressure19,200 CUP Maximum Load Grains23.5 Velocity (ft/s)1,240 Pressure28,000 CUP Notice 10,000 CUPS lower pressure for the 45 Colt and if the 80% rule is used the 45 Colt is under loaded Here is chrono results with a 4 3/4" barrel 45 Colt
Last edited by jwp475; 02/24/16.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Tracker
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TC1: If your new 45 Colt sixgun says "NEW VAQUERO" on the frame, you understand you CAN NOT fire 45 Colt +P loads in it correct? No 32,000 CUP loads, as the NEW VAQUERO is built on the mid frame not the large frame. Please be careful!
Deus Juvat
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