Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Savage ML II question?? Smokeless or pyrodex??

Do all savage ML II muzzle loaders have smokeless capability?? if not, how do i tell which ones are smokeless and which ones aren't? Saw one in the shop the other day and not sure its "smokeless". It definately used 209 primers. I googled the manual, but didnt see smokeless powder mentioned?? Any idea of value for one that looks like it has normal hunting wear but in good shape otherwise? It is stainless with a low end nikon scope.

IIRC, Cabelas marketed some Savage MLIIs that were for BP and subs only. From what I understand there was little difference between it and the smokeless rated models but Cabelas didn't want the liability they associated with smokeless muzzleloading. Seems like the barrel was a bit longer and the breech plug was stainless instead of blued CM. I've never seen one so don't know how they're marked.

The one i am looking at has the accu trigger and i believe is a modl 10 ML II. ???? Just wondering if it is smokeless, it doesnt say smokeless on the barrel anywhere..???

To my knowledge* all Savage ML-II's were smokeless except the Cabelas/Savage which was designated ML-BP. The ML-II's were not marked "smokeless", but the ML-BP model was reportedly marked "black powder only" on the barrel. If there's no BP warning you're safe with smokeless.

Your google skills need improvement then because its right on page 13 in the MLII manual. SR4759, N110 and 5744 are all smokeless powders.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/savagefiles/manuals/manual_muzzleloader_10mlii.pdf

Stainless MLIIs are going for top dollar now. Savage did not make any in SS during the last one or two production runs and now they dont make any MLIIs at all.

Even the 10ML-BP sells for top dollar. Its the same damn barrel Savage used on the MLII except its longer. It was 26" iirc and the MLII barrel was 24". It has the same large shank as all late model MLIIs also. The breach plug in the 10ML-BP was 4140 but that year Savage switched to a hex head plug. All MLIIs after the 10ML-BP had the larger 4.40 spacing, large shank and the new style hex breach plug.

SS models are easily going for over $750 these days. Ive seen them sell for $1000+ new in box.

Another manual.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/savagefiles/manuals/manual_muzzleloader_10mlbp.pdf

Use with only black power or black powder subs starts on page #1. Nowhere does it recommend smokeless.

Yeah, that is the ML-BP manual. BP stands for Black Powder. That is the Cabelas version of the MLII. Cabelas refused to sell a smokeless ML so Savage made them a version without the smokeless load data in the manual and specified BP only.

Did the barrel of that Savage say "Black powder only" on a 26" barrel?...If not, its not a BP model.

There is one other obvious difference you can spot in an instant. The ramrod guide is different on the 10ML-BP.


The 10MLII looks like this.

Thank you!

Just a FYI

If you get a MLII or ML-BP, both can be converted to a smokeless 45cal pretty easily and they make a fantastic shooter. Luke at smokelessmz sells the prefit barrels and any part you may want.

I took the plunge on a used, stainless model 10 ML II. The rod guide is missing and the front sight is gone. It has a low end nikon scope and a camoulflaged stock. Dealer wanted wanted $159 but i talked him down to $125 out the door with a hard case😀😀😀. I just hope it is really "smokless". The writing on the barrel says something like "use only recommended loads and powder". If its what i think it is, i almost feel bad for the gun shop owner😀...
I will post pics later. I just want to be sure of what i have before i try the recommended smokeless powder loads.

What special tools do i need to disassemble and clean this thing?

3/8" socket for breach plug...Old style plug requires a special too.

Allen wrench for stock bolts and vent liner removal. Front trigger allen screw is your bolt release. Back it out and the bolt pulls right out.

5/32" or #21 drill bit to clean carbon out of the breach plug.

Use whatever center fire solvent you like when using smokeless powder. You dont really need to clean the bore very often and they shoot better dirty anyway. Keeping the breach plug clean and making sure the vent liner is still .035 or less are the two main things to watch.


BTW if you have any issues with the barrel, I know where to buy plenty of 50cal take offs pretty cheap. Hopefully the previous owner only used smokeless and chance of rust is really low.

Just the action alone is well worth what you paid. Boyds sells cheap laminiate stocks if you dont like the tupperware stock. HS Precision and Mcmillain also sell stocks that will fit but they aint cheap.

Get your butt over to Dougs message board and read all you can. Lots of guys there will be glad to help. Dont worry about the powder. The ML-BP has the exact same quality barrel as the MLII. The only real difference is its 2" longer. Im sure one of the guys on Dougs can hook you up with the ram rod guide. Lots of us changed out barrels to 45cal and never used the left over guide.

Go here http://dougsmessageboards.proboards.com/

Powders you want to find for the MLII

VV N110 (awesome all around powder especially for a 250gr)SUPER clean
VV N120 (only for 300gr-325gr) also super clean
Reloder7 (only for 300gr-325gr) kinda dirty but very reliable with a 300gr
H4198 (only for 300gr-350gr)
SR4759 (great all around powder and only a little dirty)
XMP 5744 (really dirty and slow fps but its the easiest to ignite)

Thank you so much for all the feedback. I will check out the link. Looks like i have a lot of learning to do to become confident operating this thing. Lookin forward to it.

$125?? Wow, you oughta feel bad!! You got the buy of the decade! Would also recommend getting on Dougs and doing some reading.

Here are pics of the breach plug area. Looks like I will need a "special tool". Any suggestions on where to find what I need? Thanks for any feedback.

Yes thats the "special tool" plug. You can ask if anyone has one they can spare on dougs or get one from Savage. I would recommend you replace it with a hex head plug.

Hard to tell but it also looks like the plug is nearly filled with carbon too.

Luke at Arrowhead sells the OEM plug or a OEM plug with a tungsten carbide bushing. The bushing last a really really long time compared to vent liners.
http://www.smokelessmz.com/upgrades.html

Hankins rifle also sells the plugs and his are SS.
http://www.hankinscustomrifles.com/...pplies/muzzleloader-building-components/

That's probably why the guy sold it, he was getting misfires with that plugged flash channel! The ML-II I have now came to me that way. I'll look and see if I have an extra wrench. I changed mine over to the hex head.

Tmich, thank you for the offer. I will be glad to pay you for it if you have one to spare.
I think i will upgrade with some of the links. Seems like they would be good investments over the long haul.

There are lots of upgrades for the Savage. The MLII is basically a Savage model 10 without the bolt lugs. Strongly consider the bushing plug. In a 50cal those bushings will likely last for years. Ive worn out vent liners in well under 50 shots but they are not very expensive. Roughly $3-5 each depending on brand and easy to replace.

You might want to take a couple measurement too. Knowing your stock bolt spacing and shank size might come in handy later on. There were 2 stock bolt spacings, 4.27" and 4.40" Also known as staggered or center feed spacings.

There were also standard and large shanks. The shank is the part that screws into the action. The quickest way to determine what size the barrel shank is on your rifle is to measure the length of your barrel nut. Standard shank nuts are 7/8" (0.875") in length, whereas large shank nuts are 5/8" (0.625") in length.

Click to see the pic
http://www.savageshooters.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=619&d=1327338746