Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Training a Grizzly

For some perspective, I have been at the kill for a number of elk where circumstances required leaving the elk overnight on the ground, and then returning the next morning to retrieve whatever remained of the elk. Through good fortune, I have not yet found a grizzly between me and the elk. Nonetheless, the approach to the carcass is always intense, to say the least.

However, I saw what the outcome could be a few years ago while on the backend of a bighorn sheep hunt.

An encounter with a Forest Service guy made a big impression on me. He pulled out a couple of photos from his wallet to show me.

In the first photo, there is a happy, smiling man sitting up in a hospital bed and obviously feeling no pain.

The second photo was taken from the back side of the man. The back of his skull and his entire upper back looked like he had fallen into a meat grinder.

The man's disaster resulted from killing an elk at dusk and then returning in the morning for the carcass. In the meantime, a big grizzly had claimed the carcass.

When the unlucky hunter approached, the grizzly ambushed him and almost killed him. Without his hunting partner, the unlucky hunter likely would have died right there.

I knew the area where this happened, and I also knew it to be particularly full of grizzlies (but it only takes one).

Grizzlies taken as a whole are probably not as dangerous as many hunters imagine.

But getting on the wrong side of just one grizzly will certainly change, and may well ruin, the rest of your life.

Hunting with a partner might save your life.

Walk carefully, and carry a big gun!

WyoM70

I read a very interesting article in Montana Magazine a few years back. Basically, they analyzed the griz attacks in the Yellowstone and Glacier ecosystems.

For whatever reason, the Yellowstone bears are far more likely to attack and kill people. Not so much with the Glacier bears.

This is why I dont arrow an elk in the evening. This is what you will get if you are in bear country. We killed a bull in the morning and I mounted my camera near the carcass and that evening this guy showed up and claimed it. Dont want to tangle with this 600 pounder, spray, rifle or otherwise. I am a morning elk hunter only.

Those who tell you to hang the meat at least 10' high between trees have never actually tried it. I've had to leave elk on the ground overnight many times and so far, I've never had a bear or wolf problem.
Last fall we had to leave a skinned deer out overnight. The next morning the heart and liver were gone but the meat wasn't touched. I'm thinking it was most likely a fox.

Dont want to tangle with this 600 pounder, spray, rifle or otherwise.


Timbermaster pretty much nails it here.

There is a lot of downside, and very little upside, that can come out of any encounter like this.

Best to just not be there.

WyoM70

I have watched a pine marten carrying off pieces of elk from some hunter's kill. He was being mighty careful to not let anyone see him doing it. It was just luck that I happened to get the drop on him, and he never knew that he was being watched!

As for hanging the meat way high between two trees, that is indeed a difficult task. Especially when you kill an elk where there are no trees that big.

WyoM70

I shot this one 6 or 7 years ago. Note the dense forest in the background. Hang 'em high.
There aren't any griz in this area but there are blackies and wolves. How high can a wolf jump anyway?

This is so true!



Look at the photo in previous comment or take a look at the trees up high in this locale. Trying to hang meat in those is also not happening. Pack it down to that timber on the left you say? But I already have to pack that meat up and over the mountain from there toward the right.

Not only are the trees too short, but it is virtually impossible to get a rope up there and haul a sack of meat 10 feet up. Your options are limited. You can try to climb up to those tiny branches with a rope in your teeth or you can try throwing a rock with a rope tied to it over a branch. Neither works great with subalpine fir. And the branches will likely break under the weight anyway. Even with larger trees lower down, the rock over the branch takes time and patience, must be repeated for several packages of meat, and pulling the meat sack up is more difficult than it sounds. Particularly with small diameter rope such as paracord. The thin diameter cord matched to rough, scaly bark makes for a lot of friction. I can hang all my weight on something even as light as an elk head with antlers and have difficulty drawing it up into the air. Often you wait to see if the branch will hold. Unless you have a substantial branch, you can’t do two 35 pound sacks of meat per branch. Best way to haul meat up in trees is use horses. . . but if you have horses, surely you are packing the meat on them.

Try this: fill a five gallon water jug, tie a rope to it, throw one end of a rope over a limb 10-12 feet up, pull the jug up to the branch with no help.

How many feet of what diameter rope do you want to carry day in and day out in your pack? I carry four 20 foot lengths of paracord, but don’t want more. Can I get meat hung safe from bears? Probably not. Maybe from wolves or coyotes. The recommendation for keeping things from bears is to hang the item 10 feet up and at least 4 feet away from the trunk. Drawings show tying a rope 15 feet up each of two trees that are at least 10 feet apart. Your meat is supposed to hang at least 10 feet up – you have to account for stretch and sag in that cross-rope, as well as how low the bottom of your sack is from your knot around the top. Or maybe you can get a lodgepole tied in that high up - without falling out of the trees - and hang the meat off the cross-timber. Really? Are you doing that in the dark? Before you head off the mountain?

So you end up with meat on the ground. Getting it away from the gut pile and carcass is a good start. Scent marking around the meat cache may actually work. Pine martins don't respect that, but coyotes seem to and wolves may - at least for a short period. Bears, I doubt it. I'll bet Rock Chuck's thief was a martin.

How fast any critter - besides birds - finds a carcass depends most on where they are relative to meat and blood laden scent streams in the breezes. Birds find things fast. Birds draw other interested parties.

To get meat 10' up, that means the LOWEST part of the meat. The top is going to have to be closer to 15' up.
I you stretch a tight rope between trees, it'll have to be a strong one, 1/2" at least and maybe more. The tighter you have the rope stretched, the higher the lateral stress on it. A rope that sags only 20 or 30 degrees will have many times the meat weight on it because of angle stress.

Cant speak for the rest of you, but I have come to a personal conclusion that most people (myself included) are a hell of a lot braver about things like bear encounters etc., when they are home safe and sound.

Interesting pics.

Completely agree.

I had the opportunity to watch this Wyoming grizzly for a bit about a week ago. This is a fair sized grizzly, but certainly not the largest one I have seen.

I once watched a truly large grizzly appear from the forest near a carcass being attended by some lesser bears. When the big boy made his entrance, the other bears lost no time in vacating the scene. He was clearly king of the mountain, and there could be no dispute about that.

It is worth remembering that grizzlies come in all sizes. The size of the grizzly does not matter nearly as much as the attitude that the bear brings.

Prior to elk hunting in grizzly country, think about this bear. Come this fall, a grizzly very much like this one might be roaming the woods with you while you are stalking your elk.

It is my opinion that most grizzlies will let you pass by, and you will likely never know that they were there. Maybe tracks in the snow will give them away later.

But not all grizzlies are so inclined.

Stay vigilant, and don't be in a hurry when going through the woods. And remember to watch for the birds ahead as you move quietly through the forest.

Seeing a grizzly while on a wilderness elk hunt can add a lot to the experience. But do your part to make sure the grizzly encounter is nothing more than a good story to be retold later in elk camp.

No blood shed by either hunter or grizzly is the way to go!

WyoM70

http://www.alaskapublic.org/2016/05/17/anchorage-man-mauled-by-a-bear-near-yakutat/

Stay alert out there when elk hunting!

There were reportedly about 4 serious run-ins with grizzly bears at the beginning of last year's elk season in Wyoming.

Try not to be this unlucky guy!

WyoM70

And while we are at it, take a look at this photo which I posted some time ago comparing the humerus of a large, mature Wyoming bull elk on the left with the same bone from a SE Alaska brown bear.

The elk humerus is longer and more slender, as fits with a creature with longer legs. Still a large bone, with a substantial ball at the head of the humerus. Not all bullets can make it through the head of the humerus of an elk and still do fatal damage.

The brown bear humerus is similar in shape, but definitely different. Shorter, an even more massive ball on the head of the humerus (where it meets up with the shoulder blade or scapula), and a large ridge on the left side in this photo for the attachment of a lot of powerful muscle. This fits with the anatomical structure of an animal capable of enormous strength when using its front legs.

Consider carefully your choice of elk cartridge and especially bullet when hunting in mountains filled with grizzlies. While grizzlies in the Lower 48 are not as massive as their Alaskan brown bear cousins, this photo is still useful to ponder.

Whether hunting elk, or faced with a very dynamic dangerous situation with a grizzly, your bullet *might* need to make it through that heavy ball at the head of the humerus. It would be nice to avoid that ball, but you don't always get the shot that you want.

This photo is the visual argument for the choice of a well constructed bullet. Lesser bullets will work fine through the ribs of course.

Choose your bullet carefully.

WyoM70

If I'm the fastest one in the group........no problem.

I could be wrong but think that the Grizzly/Brown bear is more dangerous when has found a carcass or is on a kill. They bury them and guard them with a vengeance. I think that this is how most people are killed by bears. They inadvertently stumble on a hear guarding a kill. The other great risk is what the OP suggests, a habituated bear.I have withstood several bluff charges without firing. In my case, I was a flyfishing guide in Southwest AK and only carried a 44 mag. I have no idea if a 44 would have stopped a charging bear. The only time that I ever thought I might have to use a pistol was a on a mother moose. Bears were after her calf and my clients got jammed into a tight location with her. My worst bear encounter was with a young and likely starving bear. It was scraggly and missing patches of hair. I was wearing a backpack full of salmon and not carrying a pistol. The bear should not have been in the area. It was scavenging hunting camps and salmon carcasses left by other groups. I agree with MD that you better be damn sure that you want to deal with the investigation following shooting a threatening bear. The only bear kill of a human, , that i know of in the almost 100 years of Katmai National Park. was that of Timothy Treadwell and his girlfriend. Most people in the know think that he was feeding the bears. He basically did everything possible to get attacked by a bear. Katmai park probably has the highest concentration of brown bear in the world. I would have shot the aforementioned elk but understand the concern.

I agree with all of the above. I am often humored by "arm chair quarterbacks" that tell you what they would have done in a grizzly encounter. If the bears were a major danger to hunters and hikers they would have all been shot by now. For some reason there exists a real but uneasy truce between man and bear. Bears make people nervous and people make bears nervous. Almost every situation ends well.

http://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2016...ul-to-be-alive-after-brown-bear-mauling/


Lucky young man I think, and I wish him the best for his recovery.

I can not imagine the horrible feeling of being under a brown bear, and I hope to never get anywhere near that point either!

This fall I will continue to hunt elk in the midst of the grizzlies. As I have for years.

But staying vigilant, always armed, and hunting with a partner can help stack the odds at least a little bit in my favor.

The very best strategy is to be smart about what you do, and where you go.

Sometimes you just need to turn around and go somewhere else for the day!

WyoM70

It's never not funny when the guy from TN talks about armchair bear experts!

Is it any less funny when the guy from TN spent multiple seasons as a fly-out guide in the Bristol Bay area of AK? It was not uncommon to see 10 or more different brown bears in AK on any given day fishing. These encounters commonly were within 25-50y. The "arm chair quarterback" stories I was referencing usually involve how someone should have shot the bear.