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Joined: Feb 2010
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 15,692 Likes: 1 |
Since John has decided to share his story about his PH friend who held views contrary to many on this thread, I have another about the Zambian PH my son worked for. He is a second generation PH, now retired, who grew up with his father's early 416 Rigby and a BRNO 30-06. Between them the Rigby had accounted for over 1000 BULL elephants and the checkering was worn completely smooth. ![[Linked Image]](http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk168/Grizskins/NormanCarrs416.jpg) Although he was intimently familiar with the Rigby, for lions he claimed he prefered the 30-06 as lions are so blazingly fast he felt the fraction of a second speed advantage that the 30-06 gave him far outweighed the extra power of the 416 ! As bullet placement was paramount no matter which rifle you use. I've never shot any kind of bear (i've seen several blacks in the wild while elk hunting) but it's interesting to hear about what works from those that have. I would guess by that PH's experience that an '06 might work on a grizz...ASSUMING it's wielded by someone that can shoot. 
NRA Life,Endowment,Patron or Benefactor since '72.
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Joined: Nov 2002
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2002
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What little I know is that my guide for my hunt in a couple of weeks is more than pleased that I am bringing a 375 H&H loaded with 270 gr TSX's. His words, "perfect".
Conduct is the best proof of character.
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Joined: Dec 2009
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
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Since John has decided to share his story about his PH friend who held views contrary to many on this thread, I have another about the Zambian PH my son worked for. He is a second generation PH, now retired, who grew up with his father's early 416 Rigby and a BRNO 30-06. Between them the Rigby had accounted for over 1000 BULL elephants and the checkering was worn completely smooth. Although he was intimently familiar with the Rigby, for lions he claimed he prefered the 30-06 as lions are so blazingly fast he felt the fraction of a second speed advantage that the 30-06 gave him far outweighed the extra power of the 416 ! As bullet placement was paramount no matter which rifle you use. So Phil, Where do you prefer to hit a charging griz? Just for curiosity's sake.
I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle. I have yet to see anyone claim Leupold has never had to fix an optic. I know I have sent a few back. 2 MK 6s, a VX-6, and 3 VX-111s.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2005
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What little I know is that my guide for my hunt in a couple of weeks is more than pleased that I am bringing a 375 H&H loaded with 270 gr TSX's. His words, "perfect". I am sure he is pleased as that is the reference standard for big bear rifles. As I said, when a client askes what to bring I first ask what they but if they have already decided that a brown bear hunt in Alaska is a good reason to buy a new rifle I suggest either a 338 or a 375.
Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master Guide, Alaska Hunter Ed Instructor FAA Master pilot www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.comAnyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,719 Likes: 2 |
What little I know is that my guide for my hunt in a couple of weeks is more than pleased that I am bringing a 375 H&H loaded with 270 gr TSX's. His words, "perfect". I am sure he is pleased as that is the reference standard for big bear rifles. As I said, when a client askes what to bring I first ask what they but if they have already decided that a brown bear hunt in Alaska is a good reason to buy a new rifle I suggest either a 338 or a 375. Fortunately while I was planning on using my old BRNO ZKK 375 a semi-custom stainless/synthetic M70 appeared for sale here a year or so ago. I am sure either would work.
Conduct is the best proof of character.
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Joined: Jul 2014
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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The more you kill the less you rely on power and the more you rely on placement, I think. Commonly, the folks gunning the most powerful armament don't have many kills under their belt. Of course that is an oversimplification but confidence comes with experience. On the money.
You did not "seen" anything, you "saw" it.
A "creek" has water in it, a "crick" is what you get in your neck.
Liberals with guns are nothing but hypocrites.
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
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What little I know is that my guide for my hunt in a couple of weeks is more than pleased that I am bringing a 375 H&H loaded with 270 gr TSX's. His words, "perfect". Good luck Ed! 
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Sep 2010
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
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The more you kill the less you rely on power and the more you rely on placement, I think. Commonly, the folks gunning the most powerful armament don't have many kills under their belt. Of course that is an oversimplification but confidence comes with experience. On the money. Mike & sb - I agree in principle in that WT are the largest big game I've had the privilege to hunt. I know exactly what y'all are saying is true but I would like to add this caveat, 'Faster' cartridges allow flatter trajectory, making placement easier at longer distances. I am NOT speaking nor recommending 'long' range shooting of bear. That's out of my wheel of experience. Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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What little I know is that my guide for my hunt in a couple of weeks is more than pleased that I am bringing a 375 H&H loaded with 270 gr TSX's. His words, "perfect". Good luck Ed! I'll second that 
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 |
My uncle took TWO lions in Africa in the 60s with a 270 and old fashioned Winchester Silvertips. Fast forward to today, another good friend of mine has taken virtually every species of soft skinned African game, bear, red stag with his 375 and Nosler Accubonds and TSXs for his buffaloes and big lion.
Last edited by jorgeI; 04/18/16.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Jun 2003
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
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What little I know is that my guide for my hunt in a couple of weeks is more than pleased that I am bringing a 375 H&H loaded with 270 gr TSX's. His words, "perfect". You might want to tell your "guide" to check with the "Nosler Police" about the TSX usage...
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2005
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[
'Faster' cartridges allow flatter trajectory, making placement easier at longer distances.
Jerry
True, but just like bigger bores, not nearly as much as most people believe. If you are using a rangefinder and know the trajectory of your rifle you can make hits with any caliber.
Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master Guide, Alaska Hunter Ed Instructor FAA Master pilot www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.comAnyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
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What little I know is that my guide for my hunt in a couple of weeks is more than pleased that I am bringing a 375 H&H loaded with 270 gr TSX's. His words, "perfect". Good luck Ed! I'll second that Im anxious to get the after action report on that hunt! 
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Sep 2010
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179 |
[
'Faster' cartridges allow flatter trajectory, making placement easier at longer distances.
Jerry
True, but just like bigger bores, not nearly as much as most people believe. If you are using a rangefinder and know the trajectory of your rifle you can make hits with any caliber. Certainly agree...IF/WHEN you have time to 'rangefind'. In Southern WT woods, we often don't have time to... use binos... range.... twist dials... aim... shoot. With a 400 yd MPBR you spend LESS critical time. I admit that I'm spoiled to 'FAST' cartridges for that reason. I've been using 400 yd MPBR since the 1980s. It really is hard to leave a process that works and you've been using so long. Call me 'mossback', set in my ways, or Hard Headed. Thanks Phil, I always enjoy your input and respect you. Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Trophy bear and moose hunting tends to be a rather deliberate type of hunting. Bears get plenty of eyeball time, and many bears are killed at distances where you don't need to know the precise yardage. You might easily know a bear is big enough at 250 yards, but, unless you really have good glass and the time to lay it on him, you might not be able to tell what the condition of the hide is. (Not everyone is okay with spending multiple thousands of dollars for "a nice even rub". )
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,719 Likes: 2 |
The more you kill the less you rely on power and the more you rely on placement, I think. Commonly, the folks gunning the most powerful armament don't have many kills under their belt. Of course that is an oversimplification but confidence comes with experience. Tripe and yet another 'fire generalization...
Conduct is the best proof of character.
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Joined: Sep 2010
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179 |
The more you kill the less you rely on power and the more you rely on placement, I think. Tripe and yet another 'fire generalization... Respectfully Ed, I feel there is merit especially in the first sentence. Mr Phil has given evidence & support even in this thread. Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Only lived up here for about 6 months so have ZERO actual experience but I have talked to a number of guides who tend to make fun of the lower 48 people who think they need to bring a howitzer up here. They will have the big gun, you bring what you can shoot well with a premium bullet.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 |
The more you kill the less you rely on power and the more you rely on placement, I think. Commonly, the folks gunning the most powerful armament don't have many kills under their belt. Of course that is an oversimplification but confidence comes with experience. Tripe and yet another 'fire generalization... I agree, Ed. I personally have no problems with recoil and I've posed the same question to the shot-placement-uber-alles folks (which in my book rates a "DUH"! and so intuitively obvious it's irritating)' Given all other things equal, i.e., exact shot placement, range and type of bullet used (let's stick with a Partition, lest the Nosler Police chastises), would it not be more prudent and efficacious to shoot said bear with a 375 and a 300 grain pill or a 3006 with a 180? (completely rhetorical post)
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,071 Likes: 3 |
A big "thank you" to the master bear guides (and others) who have the patience to field questions and entertain comments form deer hunters, everywhere.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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