Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Question for the Mountain goat hunters

Guys,

I'm looking for real world experience regarding rifle weight for a goat hunt. I have a BC goat hunt booked out of Smithers this sept with Copper River outfitters. This is purely a backpack style hunt. I currently am running a Gunwerks LR1000 in 7 mm LRM. This rifle is a absolute hammer BUT weighs almost 11 pounds all done up. I am seriously rethinking buying a new rifle. The only rifle I am considering is a Christensen Arms TI Summit in 300 RUM. Set up would save almost 3 pounds. So here is my question. For those of you who have actually hunted goats did you ever wish while on the hunt that you went with a lighter weight rifle? What was the weight of the rifle you used on your goat hunt? Or should I suck it up and save the money for another

While I have never been the hunter, I have been along on a few goat hunts, all of which were successful. Sometimes the goats are found in easy terrain, near lakes and such...sometimes they're found in stuff you'd be better off using rock climbing gear than anything else. I have no idea what type of terrain Copper River Outfitters hunts in, but have to assume it is pretty rough, especially if it is a strict backpack hunt.

I don't mind a heavy rifle, but 11 pounds is pushing it. I carried a rifle along on those goat hunts too, as a back up as well as for incidental wolf/lion sightings. It was always just a standard .270/.30-06 type rifle weighing about 8 or so pounds. I'll say right now I would be looking at a different rifle than that Gunwerks, even one lighter than the Christensen Arms you're considering.

I've NEVER wanted heavier and there is no way in hell I'd hump an 11 pound rifle up a goat hill.

You are hunting very close to where I live and I can assure you I would never carry an 11 lb rifle goat hunting. I have hunted them a lot and even done a bit of guiding for them too and you can almost always stalk them really close. The outfitter I worked for had lots of bow hunters and had a great success rate. Just buy something light and relatively cheap such as a Tikka or something like that and have fun. Rounds in the 260 Rem to 30-06 range will be perfect.

joelbiltz,

Based on what was already posted I will go with this.

There are two rifles I can think of immediately that come in at 5 3/4 pounds without a scope. One is the Savage and the other is the six lug Weatherby Mark V. I don't remember the Savage, but the Mark V is built around the .30-06 length.

Joel,

I would definitely get a lighter rifle as well as weed through all my gear. Folks like Brad or Gerrygoat can probably give you some good tips.

I've only done one goat hunt, but they can be rough, terrain is usually more jagged and extreme than sheep country. Mine hunt was out of Seward, AK for reference. I carried my Browning A-bolt .270.

Where Mr. Goat landed.



Base camp. Shot him way up in the peaks back yonder.

Of the 5 goats I've shot, 3 were with a 7-08 and 2 with a 358STA. The STA was certainly more impressive in the wound channel, but all goats went about the same distance regardless of rifle used. The heaviest rifle I have goat hunted with weighed around 9lbs full up. I only used it one year.

I prefer to keep my goat rifle under 7.5lbs with scope, sling, and ammo. No way would I choose to carry an 11lb rifle up a mountain. I'd use it if it was all I had, but I'd curse it non stop.

I have been on about 10 goat hunts in Alaska, most as a packer but a few for myself. I would not consider an 11 lb rifle on a multi day backpack hunt. If it's an up and back in a single long day from a base camp, then maybe, but I think you will end up regretting it. Pick up a cheap Tikka or something 7 ish lbs scoped up...IMO.

I've got a stainless steel Tikka T3 in 25-06 that would be ideal for you...less than a box through it.

If you are interested, PM me and we'll talk.

I took the rifle I had for the hunt. It is a Browning 25-06 with a Leupold 12X scope. I didn't worry about the weight, it was what I had, so I took it. It wasn't anywhere near 11 pounds though...

Having helped a pard on a goat hunt, I'd want a rifle lighter than 11#s. Though something a bit different than what you are wanting. Don't think I'd like an 8# 300 RUM... IIRC, my pard was using a 300WSM in a Model 70. I'm guessing it was near 8#.

That said, your physical conditioning will matter more, IMO, than 3# of rifle weight.

This^^^^^^ is more important than any rifle or gear choices you make. Get in shape, if you are not already, and then worry about weight. Even if you are in great shape, a goat hunt can/will kick your ass.

11 lb rifle here is a non-starter. You will hate yourself.

Tikka T3 Light
RAR

Kimber Mtn Ascent ...

Viable options.

I didn't realize they even made 11lb hunting rifles.

Well, I aint taking an 11lb rifle in goat country even if I'm in the best shape I could possibly be in. Yeah, getting in shape is a huge part of the hunt, but it really has nothing to do with the weight of your rifle. I don't get into less shape because I have a light rifle. We aren't talking about 3lbs stuck in your backpack that you'll never notice. This is 3lbs of dead weight constantly in your hand or on your shoulder while climbing up or down hill. 3lbs is a lot in rifle weight on a goat hill.

Badass pics Bob.

Tanner

A few pics of this area to get Mr Bitz something to think about Not the kind of area you want an 11 lb rifle......













This is more coastal but you can see I do get off the couch once in a while

Just buy a cheaper rifle and enjoy the hunt. I have a perfect rifle for it so I wouldn't have to but if I didn't, I would be looking for a Tikka or Kimber in 7-08 or equivalent. I've killed a lot of coyotes at 500 yards with a 7-08 and a few elk closer. Plenty of rifle, plenty of range. No need to shoot goats at 1000.

Joel, I've killed two billy goats one here in Colorado and one in BC. The terrain can be bad ass for sure and very dangerous especially if it is wet. If you are looking at a custom rifle I would give Melvin Forbes with New Ultra Light Arms a call and have him build you one. You will never look back. My personal preference is the 284 Winchester Melvin built for me which sure killed hell out of those two billies I shot but he can build you whatever you want. Light, very accurate, well balanced, great triggers. You should at least give Melvin a call.

joelbiltz,

Here's a little test I did for a guy who was not concerned about his rifle's weight. I took off the sling and told him to hold his rifle out so I hung the sling on it. After about thirty seconds I took the sling off. His arm went up and he said, "Man! That little bit makes a difference!"

I think I mentioned earlier in this thread the six lug
Weatherby is 6 lb 14 oz. It is a .30-06 length action.

joeblitz:

I carry a 9# rifle and that feels like an oppressive burden after several hours. So yes, you might want to consider getting a rifle that weighs less.



However, on a backpack hunt you have more to think about than the weight of the rifle. When I backpack hunt for elk during Colorado's 3rd season (November, 10,000'), my pack weighs 36#. That includes the following;

Pack
Sleeping Bag & Sleeping Pad
Tent
Stove & Fuel (1 liter white gas)
Food (5 days, freeze dried & dehydrated)
Ti Tea Pot, Ti Cup, Fork & Spoon
Canteen & Water (1 liter Nalgene)
Rain Parka & Puffer Jacket (down)
Knitted Cap, Gloves, Extra Socks
Rangefinder, Binoculars
extra Ammo (10 rounds)
Game Bags, Skinning Knife, Havalon Scalpel, Bone Saw
First Aid Kit (small personal)
Compass, GPS, Maps
Fire Starter Kit
Toilet Paper
Bandana
Swiss Army Knife
Water Filter
Headlamp

You need to get the weight of all of that down to less than 40#.




KC

Thanks guys for all the comments. I have been working on cardio four to five days a week now for five months. Always at least 50 minutes and up to a hour and a half of different exercises including elliptical,stair climber, treadmill, biking, hiking, and hiking with a 50-70 pound pack. I've personally lost about 10-15 pounds in preparation for this hunt. I have all the lightweight gear I will need for this hunt and a Kifaru UL hunting frame and a Nomad bag which carries the rifle in a center pouch like a eberlestock. I am just trying to prepare myself as best as I can. Thanks.

Mental toughness is one of the greatest attributes a successful goat hunter can have. My current goat rifle that I am building is a 30-06 on a Ti action. With a Lone Wolf stock, it should come in at 4 pounds,14 ounces. A NULA is not a bad idea.

KC, if you can get that McGyver kit in a 36# pack, you da man!

Packing my 9.5 lb rifle, tripod, 15x binocs, and Rifle Claw does feel oppressive ...

Goat hunting is tougher than sheep hunting in my opinion because of the rough terrain. The more you train the better it will be for you The outfitter I worked for told me to be careful with my hunters. He told me you will get one climb from them and that's it most will be worn out and done.

In the area you will be hunting I have seen 2 of the top 4 biggest billies I have ever laid eyes on so you will have a chance at a real big one if you put in the time to train.

Make sure you have good rain gear, quick dry clothing, merino wool base layers and socks and a lightweight down coat. That will help a lot with being comfortable and warm especially if you have to spend a night under the stars. Bring a camera, the area is quite beautiful and hopefully you can take out one of our wolves too......

Talus:

I'm getting too old to carry a heavy pack. As my belly gets bigger, my pack gets smaller and I hike slower.

On a summer backpack trip without any hunting gear (just a lightweight fish rig), no cold weather gear and just a couple days of food, my pack weighs about 24# at the start. By the time I have eaten all the food and when I get near the trailhead and dump my remaining water, my pack weighs about 20#.

KC

I've never hunted goats, but I see my sheep and elk hunters crap out on the downhill portion of hikes a bunch. Maybe it's hard to find in Indiana but I would concentrate on steep ascents/descents with a good load.

^this

You're doing everything right. I'd personally mix in squats too.

One more thing. Contrary to what you may have heard, goats are not that hard to kill. Most of the stories about them soaking up one shot after another are because of bullets that are too heavy, and too heavily constructed.

A really big billy is not nearly as wide as a big whitetail, and tough bullets just zip on through. I have often wondered if a 22-250 might not be a good goat cartridge.

I do know that 130 gr cup and core 270 bullets at high velocity shoot flat and anchor 300+ lb goats in a hurry.

Ted

Ooops!

Don't need this post twice.

Yes, I have wished for a lighter rifle, and that would be true on my goat mountains if it were made of Styrofoam! I was young, broke, strong and carrying a heavy 03-A3 in 30-06 in a heavy homemade walnut stock during my goat hunting days.

If you are going to buy, get the lightest one your budget can stand. It will work on deer when you get back and if you carry it, you will appreciate light weight on any game.

Shot my only one with a 140 vld out of a 6.5. It died on its feet and rolled down hill a little. Son shot one with a 115 grain ballistic tip and it never got out of bed. If I draw another tag, will be shooting the 140 vld again with no hesitation. Advantage also if you hit shoulders, you have no exit wounds and torn up capes with the 140 vld. Love those things.

KC, even without the shooting/hunting iron, I wish I could get my kit that light. As one's need for light weight increases, the value point on high priced gear gets lower and lower. Perhaps I should say the value point is inversely proportional to net vertical Most of my gear is cheaper and heavier, and it is a limitation for sure.

I often post about how much fun a person can have with lower-priced gear like the ILBE pack. It's tough to achieve very low weight that way, though.

Here, water is a complicating factor, because 9 times out of 10 there will never be any in the field. A gallon per day is just not enough here unless it is cold outside, which is rare.

Substituting Scotch, while appealing, is a net loss. Sadly.

+1
Good advice there.
That Kimber Mtn Ascent is a sweet rifle.
I don't even have a high altitude hunt planned but that one is on my short list.

My Weatherby Mark V ULW 30-06 is 5 3/4 lbs bare
still under 7 lbs with a Leupold FX-3 6x42 in Talley lt wts
Heck my Sako Tecomate 300 WSM is 6 3/4 lbs bare
My Weatherby MK V S.S. Custom Shop Outfitter 270 WBY is 7 lbs 4 oz bare

Talus:

Yep, as the weight goes down, the price goes up. True. The cheaper your gear is, the tougher you have to be. I'm not tough at all any more.

I know about scarce water in AZ. I backpacked there lots when I was at ASU. I have some great campfire stories stemming from that era and scarce water. My wife and I use to enjoy driving our VW bug into the desert, then sit around a campfire and listen to the coyotes yodel. I have always loved that wild sound.

More recently, I have backpacked to hunt Coues deer in southern AZ. We hunted where there were some springs. Not only did we have water available but the springs are a magnate for the deer.

You're right again. A good single malt scotch is fun but a net loser of body fluids.

KC

If you found a viable spring in Coues country, you have a treasure.

On the plus side, when one is dehydrated, hungry, and tired, a little Scotch goes a long way!

Never hunted goats, but have backpacked amongst them in Alaska. I wouldn't want anything heavier my 7.5 pound go to rifle.

Regarding Arizona, we typically pack in 4-5 gallons each the weekend before. It lets us check out our springs and decide how much more we need going in for a week long hunt or if we can get the remainder with a filter. Hate wasting hunting time tracking a water supply.

No way I'd use anything 11lbs unless it was crew served and I wasn't carrying it. Euro Optic is/was closing out last years kimber adirondacks for $1350.

I haven' hunted goats, but I can tell you all about dropping three pounds off a rifle while hunting in the mountains. The first time I hunted elk, it was with a rifle that weighed roughly 9 lbs all up. The next time around, I toted a 6 lb setup and that was so much more pleasant. I also came to the conclusion that animals don't walk around with kevlar, so the magnums stay behind for most of my hunts.

If you really want a lightweight hammer, I'll loan you my ULA in .340 Wby. She's a real featherweight, right up until it's go-time.

Have hunted goat and bighorn sheep as well as dragged one rifle or another of my 9 pound rifles over a lot of mountain terrain after other game. 11 pounds is something you will likely wish you had not taken. Of course, my rifles stay in my hands unless I really need my hands for sticking to the terrain, so heavier is just not attractive. Even these get to be a drag some days early in a hunt since I am much of a desk-jockey and don't carry that weight around all day most days.

One observation on NULA if you can shoot one before you buy, I recommend you do so. Some experience, observation, and measurement has informed me that the stock profile is different than an average Tika-ruger-rem-chester. If it works for you great. If not it may not fit you. They are light, so great to carry, but a heavy caliber may be unpleasant when it goes to work.

Hope you have a great hunt.

EXACTLY!!! The live weight of a rifle means a lot more than three pounds anywhere else!

Or just shoot a 40# goat...

I just think of some of those 300+lb pigs on Kodiak I've shot or seen shot. Massive chests, shoulders, and forearms. Nothing special in horn size, but huge bodies.

This is me with a buddies goat, probably the biggest body of any I've had to pack off a mountain:




By comparison, and average size goat:

I would run, not walk, up a mountain or down, from this rifle:


"The only rifle I am considering is a Christensen Arms TI Summit in 300 RUM"


But I'll buy you a beer and you can tell me all about it!

After talking to the folks at Christensen Arms at SHOT this year I would look ANYWHERE else for a proper mountain rifle... long story...

We gots time.....

Red zinger evahwhere.

Same here with my Christensen Arms carbon wrapped barrel. Well no so long. The barrel is bent. The groups are terrible.

It's not like I have never fired a good group. I have a .375/.416 Rem Mag I have fire so many 3/8" groups at 100 yards with 300 grainers I was never surprised to see one with its Douglas barrel. My .223 on fired fantastic groups. In fact the worst five shot group it ever fired once I decided on a load was .494" with its factory barrel.

Shhhhizzzzam Gomer!!

Just dropped back here. Thanks Tanner. Lots of badass pics on this thread. If you've shot a goat, you've earned it!

Do like I did, shoot it in the face. I could have killed mine with a .22

I was blessed with one of those 300#ers last Fall...
Joel, I'd look at the Mountain ascent at 5.5 scoped with a luepy compact. Go .30 cal, .30-06 would probably be ideal. Half the weight and just as dead...wish they made a lefty.

What amazes me on those big old 300+ pounders is how heavy their bone structure is. A goat is one well put together and tough animal.

I'm not going to tell you anything the others have. I am going to tell you that the Goat Hunt really is such a great experience.

My rifle is a Rem M7 AWR in 7mm SAUM (140AB at 3,000 fps). Topped with a VX3 2.5-8x36 I'm right at 7# 1 oz. empty. I've honestly thought about trying to shave another pound off but there's a balancing act. Too light and the rifle is a lot harder to get stabilized.

It's a hunt I will always treasure.

A number of years ago I used a REM TI in 30-06. It was right at 7 lbs with scope, sling and ammo.

I took a very nice goat in the Cabinet mountain wilderness in MT. in 2011. I hauled my Rem. 700 SPS in 300WSM on this 3 day hunt. I will say this, conditioning your body and getting acclimated to altitude is everything. I trained for better than four months rigorously and found that there is no air at 8000 feet plus for a 64 yr. old man. But...I did score on a good goat at approx. 265 yds. at a 65 degree uphill angle. One and done. I would do it again in a heart beat!
Now, looking back I would have taken my 260 AI Rem. 700 Mountain rifle that weighs in at approx. 8.5#, Nosler 130 gr. Accubonds or Berger 130 gr. VLD Hunting bullets. This would have been more than adequate for mountain goat.
Get into the best shape possible, actually do lots of mountain climbing that you can and shoot at various ranges for 100 yds. out to 500 yds. plus. Do not over pack and take only the necessities! Good luck and have a grand adventure. MTG