Prince seemed to have some talent, with which he made a living. People liked what he did enough to pay him. He made money as a musician and lived a duplicitous life. If Minnesota legislators want to honor his memory by making the state flag purple, well, that's Minnesota. And that's the influence of media on our world. There's several other truly great music composers and musicians who deserved much better than a purple flag. But that's America in these days.
That was actually pretty enjoyable. Thanks for posting it Birdwatcher.
Ya, never been a fan of the man or his music but looking now I'm finding some decent work.
In that concert, imagine the good memories for those young ladies in that they actually got to sing his songs while he played the instrumentals for them.
That was nicely done on his part.
Birdwatcher
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
Great musicians read/hear/think/interact instantaneously and create simultaneously with other musicians, etc., etc.
Again, never been a Prince fan here, didn't know anything about him.
But speaking of spontaneous innovation, I was surprised to read amid all this stuff coming out that Prince frequented a local jazz club often enough that they reserved a private box for him. Last time he was there being a few days before his death.
I don't know enough about music to know how much spontaneity went into it, but I already posted his virtuoso performance at the George Harrison gig (Prince steps up at 3:35)...
I get the impression of a guy holding back and playing WITH his fellow musicians and not over them.
...and then there's this, Prince s/ Lenny Kravitz on "American Woman", I wish there was a cleaner copy.
Once again looks to me like a guy carefully holding himself back until the end. But I ain't a trained musician.
I will say it seems like those guys collectively took that song to a whole new level over the original.
On the bigger picture, I got no problem with Minneapolis celebrating the guy as a native son. Heck, weren't he more talented than Elvis?
JMHO, Birdwatcher
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
Prince came along later in my Music Career just before I got out of the industry. What made him popular at the time was the Innovative unique style of his music for that particular time. He probably didn't do it all by himself but it was innovative for the time and created quite a stir.
Last edited by Bugout4x4; 04/24/16.
When I no longer have the right to protect my own person or property...my person and property have become public property in common.
Birdwatcher - thanks again. I appreciate your posting those examples. I don't claim to know the overall scope of his work (I just might) but the items posted reinforce my personal analysis/opinion.
Strip way his outfit and behavior on "My guitar" and what do you have? A guy in an "all-star" lineup running along through simple chord changes in the key of A minor and, when it was his "turn", laying out some stereotypical wailing lines that go nowhere in particular - while gyrating - even down to the floor. An interesting "performance".
The thing on "American Woman" is nicely done for what it is - a very basic/simple riff on one chord (C minor) with a subtonic thrown in for interest. He sings and plays along, but in the solo work Kravitz plays circles around what Prince gave. Any possible heavy musical lifting there is done by the remainder of the group - especially nice work by the horns (which hardly are shown) while the dude slithers around in his blue sequins. Once again, a good "performance". Give the guy credit for what he was and what he invented in style. But then?? Maybe ask a truly great musician somewhere what he/she thinks.
To a reasonable extent I can accept the great "performer" comments flowing here (the flash and shock, the moves, the androgynous makeup/clotes/action, etc.)
However, the great "musician" aspect seems way overstated - - -
No. Taught music writing and music in general - starting in 1962 and still going.
Well now, that makes your assessment here even all the more inconvenient.
Birdwatcher - thanks again. I appreciate your posting those examples. I don't claim to know the overall scope of his work (I just might) but the items posted reinforce my personal analysis/opinion.
Strip way his outfit and behavior on "My guitar" and what do you have? A guy in an "all-star" lineup running along through simple chord changes in the key of A minor and, when it was his "turn", laying out some stereotypical wailing lines that go nowhere in particular - while gyrating - even down to the floor. An interesting "performance".
The thing on "American Woman" is nicely done for what it is - a very basic/simple riff on one chord (C minor) with a subtonic thrown in for interest. He sings and plays along, but in the solo work Kravitz plays circles around what Prince gave. Any possible heavy musical lifting there is done by the remainder of the group - especially nice work by the horns (which hardly are shown) while the dude slithers around in his blue sequins. Once again, a good "performance". Give the guy credit for what he was and what he invented in style. But then?? Maybe ask a truly great musician somewhere what he/she thinks.
Wonderful technical analysis.
And completely, utterly, unquestioningly missing the point that music isn't math, it isn't science, isn't the sum of the parts. Prince was an artist. When he played, he connected with the audience and gave them joy. None of the analysis is relevant to the meaning of music: connecting the performer to his audience. Prince may not have been displaying technical virtuosity, but people wanted to hear him play. That makes him an artist, a performer as well as a musician.
add: Many folks see it as "inconvenient" when someone disagrees with their personal opinion (no matter how inexpert that opinion might be), and they often feel very inconvenienced when they are given evidence that they don't wish to accept. If one has not had the opportunity to learn and know "great", one simply is ignorant of the fact - it's not a sin.
Dutch: More than once I have said that he was great as a performer - which is what you have described - the connection with the "audience", etc. - and people wanted to hear him perform.
What don't you get about the difference?? Some people "love to hear" these no-talent rap artists too and they do "connect" with their audiences. Does that make them "musicians" and their useless sounds "great music"? I think not.
I didn't miss any point at all - some folks say he was a great musician. My purpose is not to burst any bubbles, but I was not talking about performers playing to the varied tastes of audiences. I was talking about learned, versatile, well-schooled musicianship.
And, you might be surprised to realize that a musician does not need an audience in order to create music - great music - so connecting to some particular loving audience is not an important factor in the creation. Also, by the way, music does involve math - and science as well at times - and combined with those and many other aspects (sum of the parts) it can be a supreme art. Everything people think is "music" is not artistic, and all beloved music performers are not great musicians.
Prince was in addition to being a self taught and extremely talented musician, one of the most prolific song writers in history. The list of number one hits from other artists on Prince written songs is mind boggling. Further he was responsible for a ton of artists who went on to become successful in their own rights.
On those accomplishments, his record stands above reproach. As for his personal trial, tribulations, and accomplishments, that is between him and his maker.
On those accomplishments, his record stands above reproach. As for his personal trial, tribulations, and accomplishments, that is between him and his maker.
Flat amazing the range of different folks here speaking well of the guy (yerself, for example ). I gotta say it restores my faith in the 'Fire somewhat: People giving credit where credit is due, even to a skinny little dude jumping around in sequinned outfits playing hit songs most of us don't care for.
I've learned more about him in the past few days than I ever thought about before, most of it surprisingly good.
The gist seems to be he was a decent guy who treated others better'n he had to.
We should all do so well.
Birdwatcher
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
Prince was in addition to being a self taught and extremely talented musician, one of the most prolific song writers in history.
He wasn't completely self-taught, both his parents were professional piano players.
His dad played for the Prince Rogers Trio, the group he was named after.
Prince said that there was a piano in the house and his dad wouldn't let him touch it because he "wasn't as good as dad". So when his dad left Prince set out to get as good as his dad and show him.
To a reasonable extent I can accept the great "performer" comments flowing here (the flash and shock, the moves, the androgynous makeup/clotes/action, etc.)
However, the great "musician" aspect seems way overstated - - -
No. Taught music writing and music in general - starting in 1962 and still going. What was your teaching field?
"He who can, does. He who cannot, teaches." George Bernard Shaw
In other words, how many SB half-time shows have you done?
). I gotta say it restores my faith in the 'Fire somewhat: People giving credit where credit is due, even to a skinny little dude jumping around in sequinned outfits playing hit songs most of us don't care for.