|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000 |
i get kind of a kick out of these .22mag threads. I own a few but got turned off when the price per box went north of 5bucks.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 9,993
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 9,993 |
I hunted grey squirrels with a Marlin bolt action 22 magnum when i was a teenager in PENN. Used solid bullets and took head shots. Wouldnt mind having another Marlin with a bull barrel...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 912
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 912 |
I have never thought about loading down a 223. Have never owned a 223 and assumed the bullets would be similarly priced to big game bullets. Just looked and they run 15-20 cents each. Are accuracy nodes easy to find with the mild loads? Need faster twist? I am guessing that case stretch is nonexistent with these loads, therefore simpler to reload. These forums are bad for me. I do not need a 223 but now interested. Very similar to when I wanted a 35 Whelen. I have 0 need for a 35 Whelen. Thought a Pre -64 custom model 70 in 35 Whelen would be way cool. I came to my senses that this would be a monumental waste of time and money.
I have never owned a 22mag. Love the 17hmr and 22lr. I am not sure that I would take a shot at a coyote with the vmax or tnt hmr bullets. They appear to fragment explosively on a blackbird. Cannot imagine that they would consistently penetrate a coyote in fragments large enough for a sure kill. I would shoot one with a 22mag.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 14,999
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 14,999 |
John, bring the best shooting one with you to Quemado as I understand that the .22 rimfire target will be set up at 150 yds. I don't think a .22 LR would do much good at that distance. I have a box or two of ammo but no rifle for many years.
The Mayans had it right. If you�re going to predict the future, it�s best to aim far beyond your life expectancy, lest you wind up red-faced in a bunker overstocked with Spam and ammo.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 659
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 659 |
Where are you guys finding it online? this is what I typically see on the various web based suppliers...
https://www.midwayusa.com/s?targetLocation=%2F_%2FN-10019%3FNo%3D0%26Np%3D2%26Nr%3DAND%2528p_visible%253A1%252Ccustomertypeid%253A1%2529%26Nrpp%3D48%26Ns%3Dp_metric_sales_velocity%257C1%26Ntpc%3D1%26Ntpr%3D1
Not a single manufacturer in stock.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,423
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,423 |
In my experience, shooters who believe the .22 Magnum is more "explosive" on small varmints than the .17 HMR have often only used hollow-point HMR ammo, not plastic-tipped.
While lighter plastic-tip bullets in the .22 Magnum are more effective on small varmints than typical hollow-points, velocities in the low 2000's with 30-33 grain bullets do not splatter like 2550-2850 fps with 17-grain bullets. The difference is very similar to the .22 Hornet versus the .25-20, which the Hornet won long ago, due not just to more splatter but longer range with less wind-drift.
Once varmints get much larger than prairie dogs the .22 Magnum starts to show its stuff, but there are good .17 HMR loads for 10-pound varmints. As always, it's the bullet that does the job, not the cartridge. I scratched my head when the 17 came out wondering how no one had ever thought of a rerelease of the 5mm. Its more better by far than the 17 or 22 mag. "Much more better"
Last edited by fredIII; 04/26/16.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,659
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,659 |
i get kind of a kick out of these .22mag threads. I own a few but got turned off when the price per box went north of 5bucks. Back in the day, for each box of 22LR I would shoot thru my single6 ; I would also shoot a box 0f 22MAG. Not any more. Now I shoot 100 rounds of 22LR for every one shot of 22MAG.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much" Teddy Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,080
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,080 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,749
Campfire 'Bwana
|
OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,749 |
Does that load in the .223 still sound like a centerfire or is it milder? A lot of the places I hunt have houses around and shooting a rimfire is not a problem, but shooting a centerfire gets unwanted attention. closer to a 22 mag sound than anywhere close to a 223. even tho I am the OP, I shoot plenty of 223 rounds loaded from the 22 mag velocity to 22 Hornet, 218 Bee etc... currently working on developing the same loads using Alliant "Steel" Shot, as its available and temp insensitive, is accurate and Blue Dot is non existent on the shelves, and has been for a few years....
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 754
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 754 |
At the risk of offending many, 22 mag out preforms the 17 HMR in all but trajectory and velocity, More THUD is better IMO We had a CZ .17HMR until very recently when we sold it. The animals we were using it on were big european hares, and they would go about 8lb-9lbs I would say, about the same weight as a .303 Lee Enfield rifle...if you carry it by the legs, his head drags on the ground. And hares are hardy too, you need more gun than a .22LR to stop a charging hare... Anyway the .17 was good, but for a dedicated hare gun on open mountain river flats and often in wind, I would prefer a 22 Magnum. (I dont want to blow or tear anything up too much either - I eat them.) I have a Trailboss load with my .222 which mimics the .22 Magnum - 55 grain SP at around 1800 - 2000fps I am guessing, I am dying to chronograph it. So we tried the .17 HMR, but for hares in open country, often windy, I would rather the .22 Magnum and have sold that rifle a couple of weeks ago.
"A person that carries a cat home by the tail will receive information that will always be useful to him." Mark Twain
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,535
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,535 |
Local gun store here has more .22 WRF ammo then .22 LR and has no .22 wmr ammo..... World seems backwards these days.
I remember reading when the .17s first came out a Hornady person stated , the more accurate, flatter trajectory line , but also he mentioned cheaper to make and more friendly for the environment , because each bullet only contained a few grains of lead..... Plus Hornady is helping sell it's own calibers by not making mags......
Last edited by wyoming260; 04/30/16.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,754
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,754 |
Mule Deer wrote an article for Handloader 290, June 2014, on loading CFs to duplicate RF velocities. It's one of his best, most useful, ever I think. Doesn't cover the .222 specifically, but has formulas for Trail Boss and IMR 4895.
Sounds like you've got it figured out, though. A 9 pound bunny must make quite a meal. The jacks out West might get as big or bigger, but not many admit to eating them.
What fresh Hell is this?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,150
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,150 |
I have owned and hunted both .17 HMR and the 22 mag a fair amount although I do not have near the experience that many of you have with both rounds. A couple years back, I swapped out the .22 mag barrel on my Ruger 77-22 mag for a Lilja 17 HMR barrel and on balance have been pleased. As it shoots flatter is is less affected by wind, I do find he .17 HMR easier to hit with than the .22 mag.
It may be my imagination but the .22 mag does seen to hit the larger critters with quite a bit more authority than the .17 HMR. One large badger took a .40 grain HP from the .22 mag under the chin and it lodged under the skin between the shoulders after passing through about 6" of badger severing the spine along the way - picture perfect expansion. I doubt any readily available .17 HMR bullets could hold together like this on larger varmints.
The .22 mag also seems to impress big jacks and marmots a bit more than the HMR.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,749
Campfire 'Bwana
|
OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,749 |
Well I don't know if it was due to my posting this or what... but the 22 Mag Gods have smiled on me since I started this thread...
I picked up my 9th and 10th box of 30 grain V Maxes on the 22 Mag case.. just in this past week...
maybe its just coinciding with their seasonal run...
but I've found some 5 times recently, limit two boxes each time... but the price was $11.50...per box
so I'm not complaining
and I also was able to pick up two other boxes of my old Marlin 25 MN's favorite... the CCI 40 grain FMJ, they were like $13 a box...
Life is good on Planet 22 Win Mag this past week...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,089
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,089 |
30-grain V-Max .22 Magnum is all over the place in this part of Montana. Saw it at four local stores last week, and yesterday went to the Great Falls gun show and saw it at half a dozen tables.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,949
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,949 |
You can go pretty light with blue dot (I think 4gr will give about 1400fps) and to my ears it sounds softer than a .22 mag but you will still have a super sonic crack.
Hunt hard, kill clean, waste nothing and offer no apologies.
"In rifle work, group size is of some interest...but it is well to remember that a rifleman does not shoot groups, he shoots shots." Jeff Cooper
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 19,175
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 19,175 |
Local gun store here has more .22 WRF ammo then .22 LR and has no .22 wmr ammo..... World seems backwards these days.
I remember reading when the .17s first came out a Hornady person stated , the more accurate, flatter trajectory line , but also he mentioned cheaper to make and more friendly for the environment , because each bullet only contained a few grains of lead..... Plus Hornady is helping sell it's own calibers by not making mags...... I shoot the .22 WRF out of a .22 magnum revolver. The price is close to the same and it seems to be slightly more accurate. No choice in bullets. You get 45 grain HP's and that's it. The rifles that shoot the .22 WRF are few and far between but they can be found. kwg
For liberals and anarchists, power and control is opium, selling envy is the fastest and easiest way to get it. TRR. American conservative. Never trust a white liberal. Malcom X Current NRA member.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 5,866
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 5,866 |
I can shoot wrf through my old savage 93 and my brand spanking new henry lever small game rifle. Cycles fine.
That being said if the .22 mag ever is obsolete it will most definitely be because of ammo manufacturers. 17 would suck in a hand gun and a 22 mag is available in 25 - 45 grain commonly. I have been finding .w2 mag ammo on a regular basis lately and for 15 or 16 bucks for 50. I have been loading up on it as it has been the most rare of all rimfire in my parts.
Eating fried chicken and watermelon since 1972.
You tell me how I ought to be, yet you don't even know your own sexuality,, the philosopher,,, you know so much about nothing at all. Chuck Schuldiner
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,275
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,275 |
It's easy to find on the Internet. Try ammoseek. I walked into the local Scheels this weekend. They have quite a lot available at $17 a box. Bob
I met a French guy the other day. I asked him "Do you speak German?" He said "No." I said "You're welcome!"
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,089
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,089 |
seal billy,
Actually, if the .22 Magnum becomes obsolete it won't be due to ammo manufacturers. They'll keep producing ammo as long as there's enough demand for it to be profitable. Since there are already a LOT of .22 rifles and revolvers out there, and many are still made and sold every year, the ammo manufacturers will keep making .22 Magnums.
Shooters and even some gun writers seem to be under the impression that cartridges become unpopular because not enough ammo is made--or theres not enough variety in the ammo available. One older gun writer, in particular, always used to whine when writing about relatively low-demand cartridges that if only the ammunition manufacturers hadn't dropped X load, or would introduce more loads, then demand would rise.
In reality it works the other way around. When new cartridges appear, the manufacturer often offers a relatively wide array of ammo. But if rifle sales for the cartridge slow down after the first year or two, then some loads are dropped because sales are too low to make producing them profitable. This is why Winchester eventually dropped the 250-grain load in the .358 Winchester, and Remington dropped all but a couple of basic loads in the .260 Remington: Not enough people bought the other ammo to make it profitable. And believe it or not, ammunition companies are in business to make a profit.
This is exactly why ammo companies are making more .17 HMR ammo than .22 Magnum now. The cartridges are based on the same case so come off the same production line, and since there's more demand for .17 HMR these days, the factories use that production line mostly for .17 HMR. They're not about to quit making .22 Magnums anytime soon, but they won't be making it throughout the entire year like they used to.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
|
|
|
|
552 members (1beaver_shooter, 1Longbow, 1lessdog, 10gaugemag, 007FJ, 17CalFan, 65 invisible),
2,476
guests, and
1,343
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,191,446
Posts18,470,968
Members73,934
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|