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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,444 Likes: 8
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,444 Likes: 8 |
I met Seafire in 2004 when he took me ground squirrel hunting. I brought my 17HMR and my 223 Ruger #1 loaded with 62 gr TAP bullets and 13 gr of Blue Dot. I learned Blue Dot from Seafire, he learned it from the James Calhoon website.
The 223 cost half as much to handload and killed them twice as far out.
A couple years later an Indian guide took me and another guy 20 miles out on the prairie on the Ft Belknap reservation to shoot prairie dogs. The other guy had a 17HMR that was inadequate. The guide loaned him a 223. My friend bought a 223 Rem 700 as soon as he got back to civilization.
For me, the 223 killed the 17HMR. Right now, both 223 and 17HRM start at 20 cents per shot plus shipping.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. -Ernest Hemingway The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything.-- Edward John Phelps
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 624
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 624 |
It may be my imagination but the .22 mag does seen to hit the larger critters with quite a bit more authority than the .17 HMR. One large badger took a .40 grain HP from the .22 mag under the chin and it lodged under the skin between the shoulders after passing through about 6" of badger severing the spine along the way - picture perfect expansion. I doubt any readily available .17 HMR bullets could hold together like this on larger varmints.
The .22 mag also seems to impress big jacks and marmots a bit more than the HMR. Hence the idea some of us have gotten into our little pea brains that the WSM would be a lot more interesting if it was driving .223s.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,174 Likes: 12
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,174 Likes: 12 |
Hmmm. After reading all of this, I'm glad I procrastinated for 50 years over buying a .22RF Magnum. This frees me up to start procrastinating on a .17RF Magnum.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,228 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,228 Likes: 2 |
No comparison whatsoever imo. And I kill as fair amount of critters. Guess if tweety birds were on the menu for a 5 yo kid, a 17 might make sense....
Ping pong balls for the win. Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,172 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,172 Likes: 1 |
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 29,069 Likes: 29
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 29,069 Likes: 29 |
Hmmm. After reading all of this, I'm glad I procrastinated for 50 years over buying a .22RF Magnum. This frees me up to start procrastinating on a .17RF Magnum. Yup. There was a time when something like the Hummer would have been very useful for me. We used to spend a lot of time at a couple of places in PA sitting on the porch shooting at starlings and other targets of opportunity. That time and those places are long gone; Hell, I'm shy about shooting my spring-air gun outside at my current digs because of the noise. Smallbore CFs, reloaded, cost about the same as the magnum RFs, are more versatile, and save the cost of another rifle and scope. Reloading takes time, but that's something I've got plenty of.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,282 Likes: 47
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,282 Likes: 47 |
Of COURSE I do--and as noted a few months after it arrived from Nevada, I actually got it sighted in! It does about an inch at 50 yards with a couple of different loads.
But when a buddy and I head to a ranch on the Front this week for some "gopher" shooting, I'm not taking a .22 Magnum. Instead am taking a .17 HMR as the primary rifle, but will probably take a .17 Hornet for longer shots, or just in case we get charged by a grizzly. The rancher has seen 9 on the place in the last few days....
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,174 Likes: 12
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,174 Likes: 12 |
Grizzlies gotta eat, too.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,913
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,913 |
Yes you can, and I do just that except in the ever expanding Special regulations areas of Pa where it's rimfire only. I call fox the 22 Mag is a great round and will handle the stray Coyote. Sorry but I just don't trust a 17 to put down a Yote. Most of my calling is after dark so I want then dead right there. The Mag has never failed when I did my part. You can shoot .223 for the same price.
There are no problems that cannot be resolved by the suitable application of high explosive.
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 29,069 Likes: 29
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 29,069 Likes: 29 |
Killin' griz with a .17 Hornet would be a serious one-up on Shrap and his .25/35!
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,044
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,044 |
22 magnum isn't dead just the ammo
A Doe walks out of the woods today and says, that is the last time I'm going to do that for Two Bucks.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,058
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,058 |
Hornady 30s are around here 15.99 to 17.99 depending where.
Biggest hose job is the local Co-Op, where Armscor .22 Mag is going for $25 per 50. No thanks.
Anxiously awaiting my alert from Midway on Winchester Supreme 34 gr. Which shoot .75-in. At 25 yards from my ol' Single-Six.
Been waiting nearly four years. I'd pay $25 for those at this point.
Mule Deer what are the top five sites you check?
�When in doubt, I whip it out.� Uncle Ted
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,282 Likes: 47
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,282 Likes: 47 |
Clarkm,
I only use the .17 HMR on closer shots on prairie dogs, when first starting to shoot a town. If they haven't been shot at much (common on towns I shoot) the lighter report doesn't spook them down their holes as quickly as any centerfire. After the nearby dogs are done, say out to 150 yards, I switch to a centerfire, but don't use a downloaded .223. Use to use a .22 Hornet with 40-grain plastic-tips at 3000+, but then switched to the .17 Fireball for a while, with 20's at 4000+.
But these days I mostly use a .17 Hornet, which with 20-grain plastic-tips at 3600 fps is more effective than any modest-velocity .224, because it shoots a LOT flatter, making knowing the exact range far less critical. And wind drift isn't any more, and often less, depending on the .224 load. And the standard powder charge is only 12.0 grains of A1680, though several other powders work well too. If the .17 Hornet doesn't provide quite enough range for conditions, I switch to a .204 or .223.
Dunno how much you're paying for bullets and brass, but the present batch of Hornady V-Maxes and Nosler Varmageddons I'm shooting were acquired for an average of less than 10 cents apiece. .17 Hornet brass can be acquired VERY cheaply, in fact factory loads are sometimes on sale at such a low price the brass is essentially free. Have also acquired a bunch for from prairie doggers who shoot factory loads, then sell the once-fired brass VERY cheaply. And I can stick 1000 rounds in one side of a 6x6x12", divided shoulder-bag, and drop the empties in the other side.
For shooting ground squirrels I use everything from .22 rimfires to the .17 Hornet, but do the majority of shooting with the .17 HMR. I'm not retired yet and do so much handloading in my job I prefer to just buy it and shoot it. But I don't buy unless the deal is really good, and haven't paid more than $110 a brick yet, and most of the ammo in my stash was cheaper. In fact just picked up a brick of CCI non-toxic TNT's the other day for $90. It's just as accurate and effective as the leaded stuff.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,858 Likes: 21
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,858 Likes: 21 |
Many years ago I came close to buying a 22 Mag but even then ammo was relatively expensive so I put it off. A bit later I opted for a 22 Hornet and have been more than pleased.
Conduct is the best proof of character.
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,958 Likes: 16
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,958 Likes: 16 |
Since I posted this, I've seen a batch of 22 Mag ammo showing up on shelves..
Walmart got a whole bunch of CCI 40 grain HP in the other day...5 or 6 cases of it....around 10 AM they were putting it on the shelves....
They sold out by the afternoon...
Can't say this is a nationwide problem.... but there are places that have it ( small shops) that are selling it for $25 a box or more....
The local 22LR hoarding crowd, are also scooping it up quick, even with a limit of 2 boxes on it... Walmart had it for $13.50 a box.... these clowns are having their entire family come in and buy two boxes each... just to double their money or attempt to...
Trailer TRash.... Methhead types...
ED, that is why I've been loading 223 to 22 Mag and 22 Hornet levels for years now....
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,488
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,488 |
My neighborhood gun is the CZ 452 in 17HMR and it was enough for a 35+ lb bobcat a few years ago and many ground squirrels at as far as 186 yards. I haven't shot a coyote yet but would take a head shot up to about 100 yards or so. This rifle will put 10 shots inside a quarter at 50 yards.
The only 22 mag that has any attraction for me is the single six. The local livestock killer uses a 22 mag 10/22 for everything including large steers. I've seen him kill 275 lb. pigs almost instantly from 6' so hard to say it isn't capable of dropping a deer.......if you are close enough.
I know at least 6 guys who have purchased 17's in the last couple of years and can't remember when a friend bought a 22 mag.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,282 Likes: 47
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,282 Likes: 47 |
I bought a Ruger American Rifle .22 Magnum last year just to see how well it shot. Have tried 9 different kinds of ammo in it and it's the most all-around accurate .22 Magnum I've owned, and have owned a few.
Yeah, I have a bunch of ammo on hand, some from over the years but some purchased lately, and have yet to pay more than $12-something a box. But I'd always kept enough on hand to not HAVE to buy any, partly because it doesn't get used for high-volume rodent shooting, like my standard .22's and .17 HMR. Instead it's a specialty cartridge. But even dunno how much the RAR .22 Magnum rifle will be used, especially after acquiring a .17 WSM late last year. A 20-grain V-Max at 3000 fps or a 25-grain at 2600 should work at least as well as the .22 Magnum on larger varmints, and at longer ranges--if for some reason I don't want to use a .17 Hornet, .22 Hornet or K-Hornet. Here in Montana there aren't any places where only rimfire's are legal.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 29,069 Likes: 29
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 29,069 Likes: 29 |
My gunsmith and I were talking about 77/22s one day and he was looking for a decent boat-paddle .22 Mag for one of his customers, a local butcher. Seems the butcher had worn one out killing stuff. Can't imagine how many rounds THAT took.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,075
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,075 |
I have two .17 HMRs and that is a tiny hole. They don’t get used much because they seem to crud up faster than the .22 Magnum and .223s. Mule Deer, what .17 Hornet rifle and load are you shooting? You may have given me another reason to buy a new gun.
NRA Life Member TSRA Life Member
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,075
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,075 |
Well I see after looking around a bit, if you are going to shoot factory .17 Hornet ammo, it will Hornady!
NRA Life Member TSRA Life Member
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