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Joined: Jul 2005
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OP
Campfire Member
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My son is turning 10 this week, and for his birthday, I am getting him a his first centerfire rifle. He will need optics as well, but that is going to have to come, at least for the most part, from his savings, so something like Nightforce is out of the question.
He wanted a very flexible multi-use rifle, so that includes:
Hunting out to a future max of 450 yards (due to the ballistics of the round, he will be limited to this distance, but it will be years before he can reach this anyway)
A precision rifle course to learn to shoot to 1k+ (long term distance goal, trainer will be working to get him to 500 in the immediate)
Hunting at night with lights (gotta have good light gathering, probably a 50mm objective would be great, it will be that mounted high anyway no matter what)
Tactical rifle course (this will be achieved using a different optic)
I have the rifle sorted out and it's being finished this week (hopefully!).
But optics wise, for the first three requirements, I want the following:
Range of 4-15 ish at a minimum
Needs to have probably at least 75 MOA of adjustment to go with the 20 or 30 MOA base to make 1k+
Adjustments in MOA
Probably will need some holdover marks, but not sure on that, depends on how much adjustment it has
Second focal plane, don't want 1st
Zero stop
Prefer a 50mm if I can get it as light gathering is important
Would like illuminated, but on the fence as to whether it really is useful or whether it just blows out your targets, as I don't have any illuminated scopes personally.
These are the things I can remember at the moment, there may be a couple other needs here as well.
I have considered the Viper PST 4-16. It fits this pretty well, almost perfectly actually. My only issue with it is that it is quite soft at top magnifications. I have an HST 6-24 and it is the same. When we were at the store looking through and trying other optics, the PST definitely was noticeably softer. And when I compare my HST to some of my other optics, at top mag, it is definitely softer. I noticed the same on a friends 6-24 pst.
Leupold VX3i, looks great and great on paper, price is a bit high. But there is no zero stop, and one cannot be added. That's not going to do. Same with all the Leupolds until you get into the 'Mark' series, and that is just a bridge too far cost wise.
Nikon, we have a Prostaff 5. I actually like it under regular conditions. It is also reasonably bright etc. But it flares TERRIBLY, we have been hunting and if the sun is in the right position, top mags are unusable, you have to really dial it down to see anything, which really caused us some problems. Surprising, considering Nikon SLR lenses handle flare very well, so they know how to resolve this. Also, the Prostaff 5 adjustments are not very repeatable, at least on ours. I know they have they new Prostaff 7 with more adjustment, and a zero stop etc., but that flare problem has really turned me off.
Considering those requirements, if you have any suggestions for brands/models I should look at, please let me know. I have run out of ideas, so I am hoping someone can suggest a model I have overlooked.
Thanks!
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Joined: Nov 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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catorres1,
I don't want to pop anyone's bubble but a 50 does not guarantee good low light. My Bushnell 4200 4-16X40 matches my Swarovski zx5 5-25X52 in low light on deer antlers as the sun sets. There are some 3-15X's you might look into. Make sure you can return what you don't love.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Needs to have probably at least 75 MOA of adjustment to go with the 20 or 30 MOA base to make 1k+ Curious what cartridge you're using that needs 100MOA adjustment to make hits at 1000 yards?
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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catorres1,
I don't want to pop anyone's bubble but a 50 does not guarantee good low light. My Bushnell 4200 4-16X40 matches my Swarovski zx5 5-25X52 in low light on deer antlers as the sun sets. There are some 3-15X's you might look into. Make sure you can return what you don't love. If your Swarovski sucks so bad, quit talking about it or just sell it to me. I already have too many of those worthless Swarovskis to get rid of and now that everyone knows how bad they are, I can't sell mine. Send me a PM of how much you want for that Swarovski and I will buy it and you can quit running it down. Why on earth would you keep something you dislike so much?
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
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catorres1,
Your requirements seem a bit advanced for a 10 year old not shooting past 450 yards. Just for the sake of consideration;
There are a couple of Burris scopes that are for sale here on the Campfire for under $150.00 that would be a great place to start a 10 year old boy out with. When he gets older and more discriminating, he could change to anything that he decides he likes better, and in the meantime, he could be using a good scope and not care who made it...
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2010
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catorres1,
I don't want to pop anyone's bubble but a 50 does not guarantee good low light. My Bushnell 4200 4-16X40 matches my Swarovski zx5 5-25X52 in low light on deer antlers as the sun sets. There are some 3-15X's you might look into. Make sure you can return what you don't love. Ringman, I have absolutely no idea how your eyes operate and I by no means am trying to start an argument, but you have to be the only person in this world to have those results. The elite series are good scopes but NONE are close optically to any of the swaros I've owned. The Z3's Ive owned were better than any of the 4200's I've owned. Z5 even better. I read this stuff you post on here and I'm always questioning your motives.
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Joined: Nov 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
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gunchamp,
When purchased my first Swarovski z5 5-25X52 I was so excited to be able to afford such a fine piece of glass. I already had a Nightforce 12-42X56 and a Bushnell 6500 4 1/2-30X50. When I used leaves and twigs about 150 yards away to compare my Bushnell and Nightforce and thought the glass was about the same. When the Swarovski arrived I made a line chart with lines and spaces about 1/4" wide. I figured the z5 would smoke the other two. That's not what happened.
When compared on the line chart I started at 202 yards. I randomly picked up the 6500 and adjusted it until I could see the lines and spaces: 4 1/2X. I then picked up the z5 and adjusted it. I was amazed it needed 5 1/2X. I fiddled with it again and arrived at the same setting. Fast forward an hour and a half later.... At 521 yards the Nightforce was still on 12X. The 6500 needed 15 1/2X while my new heart break needed 16 1/2X. I have a range friend who has several high dollar scopes. He concluded after comparing his Swarovski with my Bushnell the Bushnell has better glass.
I tried them in low light. I included the two Bushnell 4200 4-16X40's. They beat the 6500 and matched the z5. None were even close to the Nightforce. I had my son-in-law compare them without telling him my results. He came up with the same conclusions. The only difference was, I guess since he is younger, the magnification settings were lower for him. My gunsmith noticed the same thing. He added, "This Nightforce has the best glass of any scope I ever looked through." A friend who used to be a gunsmith could not tell any difference in any of the scopes.
I returned the z5 for a refund and ordered another. It was worse than the first and no better than the 6500 in low light. A friend bought it on the spot. I ordered another. It was exactly like the second. Again the same guy bought it on the spot. I ordered the forth one because they are so light and go to 25X. It was maybe better than the first one so I kept it for two or three years. During those two or three years it went back to customer service at least twice and maybe three times. Twice it needed a new erector. When it arrived, I sold it.
My motive for posting this experience it to inform others looking at scopes. They need to be aware you don't get what you pay for, you get what you shop for.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,239
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,239 |
catorres1,
Your requirements seem a bit advanced for a 10 year old not shooting past 450 yards. Just for the sake of consideration;
There are a couple of Burris scopes that are for sale here on the Campfire for under $150.00 that would be a great place to start a 10 year old boy out with. When he gets older and more discriminating, he could change to anything that he decides he likes better, and in the meantime, he could be using a good scope and not care who made it...
I would agree with Shrap 100%.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: Sep 2010
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I'm with Shrap too. Besides, what is this rig going to weigh or are you getting him a gun bearer to go with it?
Geez, when I turned 10 I was damned happy to get an iron sighted 30-30.
I am continually astounded at how quickly people make up their minds on little evidence or none at all.
Jack O'Connor
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Joined: Nov 2010
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,088 |
catorres1,
Your requirements seem a bit advanced for a 10 year old not shooting past 450 yards. Just for the sake of consideration;
There are a couple of Burris scopes that are for sale here on the Campfire for under $150.00 that would be a great place to start a 10 year old boy out with. When he gets older and more discriminating, he could change to anything that he decides he likes better, and in the meantime, he could be using a good scope and not care who made it...
I would agree with Shrap 100%. Yeah, that makes sense. Shrap is a heap smarter than he looks...  DF
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Joined: Aug 2010
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,024 |
catorres1,
Your requirements seem a bit advanced for a 10 year old not shooting past 450 yards. Just for the sake of consideration;
There are a couple of Burris scopes that are for sale here on the Campfire for under $150.00 that would be a great place to start a 10 year old boy out with. When he gets older and more discriminating, he could change to anything that he decides he likes better, and in the meantime, he could be using a good scope and not care who made it...
That's exactly what I was thinking. A burris FFII with a ballistic plex reticle will get him to that range with most standard cartridges. I'm not understanding why the OP is overthinking this. However, I started out with an old sporterized m1917 HB 30-06 and an old simmons 3-9x40 scope. I was shooting out to 600 yards with no problems with that set-up when I was 14. I can't imagine a 10 year old worrying about such things as scope choice at that age... OP, Just let him shoot and enjoy it before you get him all frustrated with competitive type shooting at such an early age..
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
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At 10 years of age, how does he know what he wants in a rifle? Or is this what his father "wants" him to have?
I would get him a good 22, a 4X scope,and teach how to hunt first, before I turned him into a gear geek.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Jun 2005
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Get a 10 year old a 4-15X scope and he will be fiddling with the adjustment ring and have it set on 15X when his first deer walking out in front of him at 20 yards. A good 4X scope is a good place to start for a 10 year old, and that on a nice light, mild recoiling rifle.
Always remember that you are unique, just like everyone else.
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Joined: May 2016
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New Member
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To clarify, objective lens size determines exit pupil diameter, not the brightness of your image or light transmission. Take any optic and try to fry an ant with it like we did with a magnifying glass when we were kids. Instead of a point of light you'll see a circle anywhere from 2mm to 10mm depending on the optic. If it's a variable riflescope, zoom it in and out then observe how the circle gets bigger and smaller. The 50mm objective will make a bigger circle (biggest at low power) which is easier to get your eye behind. Oh, and don't believe anyone who tells you a 30mm tube allows more light than a one inch tube. Complete and utter BS. A larger tube gives more adjustment range, period.
OP you start by saying you can't pay for a nightforce but describe an optic for an advanced sniper/target shooter. Having put many youngsters behind their first rifle I agree with TnBigBore that your son needs a basic scope with relatively low mag. 4x, 2-7x, maybe 3-9. You do want quality so he's not frustrated by not being able to group well. You can get a nice Leupold for around 200 bucks, instill in him the pride of an American product for an American past time, and no matter how old he gets he'll look back at it with admiration of how nice that first rifle/scope was that you bought him.
If he likes it enough to do a precision rifle course when he's 16-18 great, split the cost with him so he can afford the tools for that when that happens.
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Campfire Tracker
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Jeezus fhuqk...it's a gawwdamned Jerry Lewis Telethon,with Retard after fhuqking Retard...trying to out-STUPID the last Dumb Fhuqk's "efforts". Good Equipment opens windows of opportunity and Schit Riggin' slams same shut. Not too tough to cypher who shoots and who don't,nor who the Brokedick Day Dreaming Turd Polishers are either. Simply set the kid up for SUCCESS. Firstly,copious erector travel has NO concessions. Hint. Secondly,any/all erector travel below zero is 100% absolutely fhuqking USELESS. Hint. Thirdly,it's very easy to arrange modest recoil/report,so that youngsters learn drop/drift along POA/POI intersections,with a smile on their face. No schit...you STUPID fhuqks are lauding Burris,Simmons,Swaro's,Bushnell and schit Reupold glass,while obliviously quantifying your Stupidity by "endorsing" a fhuqking '06 as an "approach"?!? Then you frost that Dumbfhuqkery with Turdy-Turdy musings?!? I'm fhuqking crying,I'm laughing sooooooooooo fhuqking hard!!!! Wow +P+++!!! POA/POI is ALL about erector travel,it's accuracy,adjustment range,zero retention and ability to reliably repeat. Hint. Funnier than fhuqk,that a herd of Do NOTHING Dumbfhuqk Window Lickers were able to miss ALL of those glaring FACTS. Hint. I sure as fhuqk wouldn't hand the kids anything that I'd not gun myself,though it seems to be a Drooling Dumbfhuqk Mainstay to do just that. Congratulations?!? As a platform to learn GOOD habits upon,that will literally last a lifetime,my approach would be more than a touch different than The Paper Hat Brigade's Retard Roundup. Hint. Laffin'! I'd be thinking boolits first,with a focus upon modest recoil,because getting the schit beat of you is fun at no age. Hint. It is very easy to arrange meaningful BC's with modest recoil and the 223 is tough to whoop there,when twist,throating and COAL are given a thunk. Doubly so,as exceptional Factory Fodder arranging same literally abounds. Hint. I hear through The Grapevine that a .435BC 75A-Max in a SAAMI 223 at 2850fps will do rather nice thangs,from spittin' distances to multiple zipcodes distant. Hardly a feat to grant it a sane zero and connect all dots,while simply granting said boolit opportunity to do it's thang...which it more than happily do. Hint. A 200yd zero with same,will only eat 34.5Mils of erector travel at the 1700yd line. VERY easy to arrange that ala 10x MQ Fixed Fhuqker's erector alone,with 'Horn rings on an inclined rail or shimmed 2pc 1913 bases. The 2pc will mount lower,which is never a concession. Hint. Establish zero,confirm dope and turn the kid loose. In less than 5 minutes,it'll be a breeze for him to pound 1000yd 2MOA steel in nice conditions and there ain't a kid on the fhuqking Planet,that'd trade that SATISFACTION,in order to "reap" the schit glass and schit rifles thus far cited by The Do NOTHING Gang and their INCREDIBLE Dumbfhuqkery. You STUPID Fhuqks had better read that again. Now one more time and feel free to use your Imagination and Pretend,to "convince" yourselves you've a fhuqking first clue,about any of this. Hint. Laffin'! Now I'm staunchly anti-variable,mainly because less is more and I've had more variables than anyone I know. Hint. With fixed glass comes all constants,doubly so when talking Mil/Mil for newbs. There is NOTHING to "convert","factor" or "change",for those who's Delusions have convinced themselves otherwise,in extrapolation to MOA. Hint. A 3-way butt is nice on a Duffer's Rifle,because LOP can be coaxed as they grow. One could make good argument for a Chassis Bitch and M4 butt,to arrange that very thing,along with a DBM for COAL latitude and bolstered safety. The vertical grip fends felt recoil,aids driving the platform and none of them things are concessions either. Hint. Hard for a kid to miss 500yd steel in nice conditions with a Skookum Annie 54,75MOA rail and 10x MQ. Hint. ![[Linked Image]](http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/17/75rt.jpg) A 3-way offers opportunities there too. Hint. ![[Linked Image]](http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/62/tp0r.jpg) No thang for a Duffer to squirt a Krunchenticker to 1K++. Mk4 M3 6x here...the MQ being a vastly superior Mouse Trap. Google it. Hint. ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Rifle%20Stuff/20110418-DAD_3463.jpg) Duffer Long Range MPAJ,stretching 1-8" 223AI 75A-Max at 3150fps. The rifle got MUCH better with a MQ. Hint. ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Rifle%20Stuff/DADS7595.jpg) Wind calling with 105A-Max at 3200fps ala Faux Ti 243AI 1-8". Rifle got MUCH better with a Fixed Fhuqker. Hint. ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Rifle%20Stuff/DADS7583.jpg) Fair to middlin' Duffer LR Rifle,1-7" SAAMI 22-250AI,3-way butt for LOP control and copious erector latitude for 1700yds++ with 75A-Max at 3200fps+. ![[Linked Image]](http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/923/zd27TI.jpg) One could slick up a S/S RAR Compact,dump it in a MDT LSS with a Magpul CTR and cheekriser,to allow max versatility for a multitude of Operators. The 8" RPM spout will do the 75A-Max proud,the trigger adjusts easily and copious COAL is reliably arranged ala MDT,AICS or AccurateMags. AM steel 5's are the default favorite,with MDT poly 10's a nice way to fly in a target rich environment. RAR spouts are easily swapped out at the house,for if/when the OEM spout is shot out. Win/win/win. Fhuqking hint. Funnier than fhuqk that a 10yr old kid with 5 minute's of Instruction,would KNOW more than The No NOTHING Gang all bolted together and doing their best. Bless your hearts. Laffin'! You've been led to water. Thank me later. Hint. GOOD talk.
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,784
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,784 |
Not equaling an airgun to a centerfire, but my 6yo has no problem getting behind a 6x42MQ and a HW30s springer and banging reactive targets, the 4yo needs a little more cheek to find good viewpoint, but when she does she hits decently. The 22LR CZ452 American should work better for her, and will move the scope to it when time allows, but we get some backyard practice with the airgun.
I can't see a 6x42MQ being a wrong choice for the OP son, however I am not saying that it is the only one. I do agree with the other posters that the expectations seem to be above the normal 10yo with first rifle experience (I may be wrong and there may be extensive experience on the OP son).
Target reactivity seems to engage kids more than paper punching, and working on good basic skills with low recoil may be the ticket.
just curious what the selected rifle/cartridge is? as I will be in the same position in the new few years. Got a 243 lined up though.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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My oldest is 8. His first scope will be a 4x Leupold. Once he learns to kill something reliably I'll let him spend his own money twisting turrets and reading drop charts taped to the stock.
Overheard on the mountain this year for elk, facing into the sun..."which way is the elk facing?" Trying to determine if the visible body was a front or a rear shoulder. Answer, "facing right". Shot fired, elk down.
My point is there are a lot of hunting skills a kid should learn before complicating [bleep].
v/r
Joel
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
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Jeezus fhuqk...it's a gawwdamned Jerry Lewis Telethon,with Retard after fhuqking Retard...trying to out-STUPID the last Dumb Fhuqk's "efforts". Good Equipment opens windows of opportunity and Schit Riggin' slams same shut. Not too tough to cypher who shoots and who don't,nor who the Brokedick Day Dreaming Turd Polishers are either. Simply set the kid up for SUCCESS. Firstly,copious erector travel has NO concessions. Hint. Secondly,any/all erector travel below zero is 100% absolutely fhuqking USELESS. Hint. Thirdly,it's very easy to arrange modest recoil/report,so that youngsters learn drop/drift along POA/POI intersections,with a smile on their face. No schit...you STUPID fhuqks are lauding Burris,Simmons,Swaro's,Bushnell and schit Reupold glass,while obliviously quantifying your Stupidity by "endorsing" a fhuqking '06 as an "approach"?!? Then you frost that Dumbfhuqkery with Turdy-Turdy musings?!? I'm fhuqking crying,I'm laughing sooooooooooo fhuqking hard!!!! Wow +P+++!!! POA/POI is ALL about erector travel,it's accuracy,adjustment range,zero retention and ability to reliably repeat. Hint. Funnier than fhuqk,that a herd of Do NOTHING Dumbfhuqk Window Lickers were able to miss ALL of those glaring FACTS. Hint. I sure as fhuqk wouldn't hand the kids anything that I'd not gun myself,though it seems to be a Drooling Dumbfhuqk Mainstay to do just that. Congratulations?!? As a platform to learn GOOD habits upon,that will literally last a lifetime,my approach would be more than a touch different than The Paper Hat Brigade's Retard Roundup. Hint. Laffin'! I'd be thinking boolits first,with a focus upon modest recoil,because getting the schit beat of you is fun at no age. Hint. It is very easy to arrange meaningful BC's with modest recoil and the 223 is tough to whoop there,when twist,throating and COAL are given a thunk. Doubly so,as exceptional Factory Fodder arranging same literally abounds. Hint. I hear through The Grapevine that a .435BC 75A-Max in a SAAMI 223 at 2850fps will do rather nice thangs,from spittin' distances to multiple zipcodes distant. Hardly a feat to grant it a sane zero and connect all dots,while simply granting said boolit opportunity to do it's thang...which it more than happily do. Hint. A 200yd zero with same,will only eat 34.5Mils of erector travel at the 1700yd line. VERY easy to arrange that ala 10x MQ Fixed Fhuqker's erector alone,with 'Horn rings on an inclined rail or shimmed 2pc 1913 bases. The 2pc will mount lower,which is never a concession. Hint. Establish zero,confirm dope and turn the kid loose. In less than 5 minutes,it'll be a breeze for him to pound 1000yd 2MOA steel in nice conditions and there ain't a kid on the fhuqking Planet,that'd trade that SATISFACTION,in order to "reap" the schit glass and schit rifles thus far cited by The Do NOTHING Gang and their INCREDIBLE Dumbfhuqkery. You STUPID Fhuqks had better read that again. Now one more time and feel free to use your Imagination and Pretend,to "convince" yourselves you've a fhuqking first clue,about any of this. Hint. Laffin'! Now I'm staunchly anti-variable,mainly because less is more and I've had more variables than anyone I know. Hint. With fixed glass comes all constants,doubly so when talking Mil/Mil for newbs. There is NOTHING to "convert","factor" or "change",for those who's Delusions have convinced themselves otherwise,in extrapolation to MOA. Hint. A 3-way butt is nice on a Duffer's Rifle,because LOP can be coaxed as they grow. One could make good argument for a Chassis Bitch and M4 butt,to arrange that very thing,along with a DBM for COAL latitude and bolstered safety. The vertical grip fends felt recoil,aids driving the platform and none of them things are concessions either. Hint. Hard for a kid to miss 500yd steel in nice conditions with a Skookum Annie 54,75MOA rail and 10x MQ. Hint. A 3-way offers opportunities there too. Hint. No thang for a Duffer to squirt a Krunchenticker to 1K++. Mk4 M3 6x here...the MQ being a vastly superior Mouse Trap. Google it. Hint. Duffer Long Range MPAJ,stretching 1-8" 223AI 75A-Max at 3150fps. The rifle got MUCH better with a MQ. Hint. Wind calling with 105A-Max at 3200fps ala Faux Ti 243AI 1-8". Rifle got MUCH better with a Fixed Fhuqker. Hint. Fair to middlin' Duffer LR Rifle,1-7" SAAMI 22-250AI,3-way butt for LOP control and copious erector latitude for 1700yds++ with 75A-Max at 3200fps+. One could slick up a S/S RAR Compact,dump it in a MDT LSS with a Magpul CTR and cheekriser,to allow max versatility for a multitude of Operators. The 8" RPM spout will do the 75A-Max proud,the trigger adjusts easily and copious COAL is reliably arranged ala MDT,AICS or AccurateMags. AM steel 5's are the default favorite,with MDT poly 10's a nice way to fly in a target rich environment. RAR spouts are easily swapped out at the house,for if/when the OEM spout is shot out. Win/win/win. Fhuqking hint. Funnier than fhuqk that a 10yr old kid with 5 minute's of Instruction,would KNOW more than The No NOTHING Gang all bolted together and doing their best. Bless your hearts. Laffin'! You've been led to water. Thank me later. Hint. GOOD talk. I swear, if you paid $40,000,000.00 for a warehouse full of stupid, opened the door and Boxer was all that was in there, you would have gotten your money's worth...
![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/G9RDVKXr/DSCN4329.jpg)
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,041 |
At 10 years of age, how does he know what he wants in a rifle? Or is this what his father "wants" him to have?
I would get him a good 22, a 4X scope,and teach how to hunt first, before I turned him into a gear geek. This and what Shrapnel suggested up above.
Last edited by elkhunternm; 05/17/16.
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Life Member DSC
Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,239
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,239 |
Jeezus fhuqk...it's a gawwdamned Jerry Lewis Telethon,with Retard after fhuqking Retard...trying to out-STUPID the last Dumb Fhuqk's "efforts". Good Equipment opens windows of opportunity and Schit Riggin' slams same shut. Not too tough to cypher who shoots and who don't,nor who the Brokedick Day Dreaming Turd Polishers are either. Simply set the kid up for SUCCESS. Firstly,copious erector travel has NO concessions. Hint. Secondly,any/all erector travel below zero is 100% absolutely fhuqking USELESS. Hint. Thirdly,it's very easy to arrange modest recoil/report,so that youngsters learn drop/drift along POA/POI intersections,with a smile on their face. No schit...you STUPID fhuqks are lauding Burris,Simmons,Swaro's,Bushnell and schit Reupold glass,while obliviously quantifying your Stupidity by "endorsing" a fhuqking '06 as an "approach"?!? Then you frost that Dumbfhuqkery with Turdy-Turdy musings?!? I'm fhuqking crying,I'm laughing sooooooooooo fhuqking hard!!!! Wow +P+++!!! POA/POI is ALL about erector travel,it's accuracy,adjustment range,zero retention and ability to reliably repeat. Hint. Funnier than fhuqk,that a herd of Do NOTHING Dumbfhuqk Window Lickers were able to miss ALL of those glaring FACTS. Hint. I sure as fhuqk wouldn't hand the kids anything that I'd not gun myself,though it seems to be a Drooling Dumbfhuqk Mainstay to do just that. Congratulations?!? As a platform to learn GOOD habits upon,that will literally last a lifetime,my approach would be more than a touch different than The Paper Hat Brigade's Retard Roundup. Hint. Laffin'! I'd be thinking boolits first,with a focus upon modest recoil,because getting the schit beat of you is fun at no age. Hint. It is very easy to arrange meaningful BC's with modest recoil and the 223 is tough to whoop there,when twist,throating and COAL are given a thunk. Doubly so,as exceptional Factory Fodder arranging same literally abounds. Hint. I hear through The Grapevine that a .435BC 75A-Max in a SAAMI 223 at 2850fps will do rather nice thangs,from spittin' distances to multiple zipcodes distant. Hardly a feat to grant it a sane zero and connect all dots,while simply granting said boolit opportunity to do it's thang...which it more than happily do. Hint. A 200yd zero with same,will only eat 34.5Mils of erector travel at the 1700yd line. VERY easy to arrange that ala 10x MQ Fixed Fhuqker's erector alone,with 'Horn rings on an inclined rail or shimmed 2pc 1913 bases. The 2pc will mount lower,which is never a concession. Hint. Establish zero,confirm dope and turn the kid loose. In less than 5 minutes,it'll be a breeze for him to pound 1000yd 2MOA steel in nice conditions and there ain't a kid on the fhuqking Planet,that'd trade that SATISFACTION,in order to "reap" the schit glass and schit rifles thus far cited by The Do NOTHING Gang and their INCREDIBLE Dumbfhuqkery. You STUPID Fhuqks had better read that again. Now one more time and feel free to use your Imagination and Pretend,to "convince" yourselves you've a fhuqking first clue,about any of this. Hint. Laffin'! Now I'm staunchly anti-variable,mainly because less is more and I've had more variables than anyone I know. Hint. With fixed glass comes all constants,doubly so when talking Mil/Mil for newbs. There is NOTHING to "convert","factor" or "change",for those who's Delusions have convinced themselves otherwise,in extrapolation to MOA. Hint. A 3-way butt is nice on a Duffer's Rifle,because LOP can be coaxed as they grow. One could make good argument for a Chassis Bitch and M4 butt,to arrange that very thing,along with a DBM for COAL latitude and bolstered safety. The vertical grip fends felt recoil,aids driving the platform and none of them things are concessions either. Hint. Hard for a kid to miss 500yd steel in nice conditions with a Skookum Annie 54,75MOA rail and 10x MQ. Hint. A 3-way offers opportunities there too. Hint. No thang for a Duffer to squirt a Krunchenticker to 1K++. Mk4 M3 6x here...the MQ being a vastly superior Mouse Trap. Google it. Hint. Duffer Long Range MPAJ,stretching 1-8" 223AI 75A-Max at 3150fps. The rifle got MUCH better with a MQ. Hint. Wind calling with 105A-Max at 3200fps ala Faux Ti 243AI 1-8". Rifle got MUCH better with a Fixed Fhuqker. Hint. Fair to middlin' Duffer LR Rifle,1-7" SAAMI 22-250AI,3-way butt for LOP control and copious erector latitude for 1700yds++ with 75A-Max at 3200fps+. One could slick up a S/S RAR Compact,dump it in a MDT LSS with a Magpul CTR and cheekriser,to allow max versatility for a multitude of Operators. The 8" RPM spout will do the 75A-Max proud,the trigger adjusts easily and copious COAL is reliably arranged ala MDT,AICS or AccurateMags. AM steel 5's are the default favorite,with MDT poly 10's a nice way to fly in a target rich environment. RAR spouts are easily swapped out at the house,for if/when the OEM spout is shot out. Win/win/win. Fhuqking hint. Funnier than fhuqk that a 10yr old kid with 5 minute's of Instruction,would KNOW more than The No NOTHING Gang all bolted together and doing their best. Bless your hearts. Laffin'! You've been led to water. Thank me later. Hint. GOOD talk. Gentlemen, this is what no education, and habitual ingestion of narcotics and alcohol look like.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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