Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Deer Hunting Shooting Fawns

Hunting in Austria a few years ago, I was offered the opportunity to help with some culling of red deer. They manage their populations very carefully, and needed to take about 30 deer off the property. What I found very odd at first was that I was told that I could shoot any spike bucks I saw or fawns, but no mature does or older bucks.

Growing up in Minnesota, getting a doe permit was a big deal. In many years, seeing a legal buck was a bit of a rarity. Getting a doe permit pretty much guaranteed you a deer. When filling a doe permit, we always tried to shoot the biggest doe we could find to get the most meat. These were often does with fawns.

When I asked them about shooting fawns and not mature does, it was kind of an “ah ha” moment for me. They told me that less than 50% of the fawns survive the winter, whereas mature does are the deer in the herd most likely to survive the winter. Further, shooting a mature doe with fawns made it much less likely that her fawns would survive as well. So by shooting a mature doe, you not only killed any fawns she was carrying, you also made it likely that her current fawns wouldn’t survive. The impact to taking that one mature doe could actually lead to the death of four or five deer. By shooting a fawn, you took one animal, and didn’t negatively impact the survival of any others. Leaving the mature does was the best insurance policy against a hard winter really damaging a herd.

I always thought that shooting fawns was not good deer management, as you often kill young bucks. But their reasoning seemed to make sense to me. Any thoughts on this?

Growing up in Michigan, we were able to acquire antlerless tags (doe permits) so I know where your coming from history wise.

We can take up to 6 antlerless a year during season in NC, and I "typically" will not shoot a doe still tending fawns unless I can take the fawns as well.

I have no reservations shooting fawns. The eat just fine.



Here, I'm less likely to be concerned with the winter kill, and more apt to think coyotes taking the young/sick/injured.

In general, I'll shoot any injured deer I see. They eat ok too.

same concept as clubbing baby seals.
consider it from a prac5ical standpoint.
no mama= no babies unsustainable
no daddy= no babies unsustainable
no baby= make new baby

plus clubbing kept them from making it to the water and being lost.
I always find it strange that as soon as an immature member of a species is introduced into the equation , logic gives way to emotion.
fawn, veal, baby seals...all the same Disney BS propaganda.

yep....Bambi started it all....

Here in the South we have an over population of WT deer.

There are 2 ,TWO, reasons I don't shoot fawns.
A. Button bucks CANT grow up to be legal antlered bucks. Every button buck you kill is an antlered buck that NO ONE will see/shoot.

B. There is not enuff meat worth a deer tag AND not enuff meat worth the effort. "Generally" when you kill a deer (fawn or not) your hunt is over for the day.

I guess you could say that is 3 or 4 reasons ? If you are hunting with me... I will tell you not to shoot fawns.


As per does raising fawns, I will not shoot a doe in Oct Mzl season for that reason. During our Modrn Gun season I'm always looking for bucks first, that gives more time for the does to wean fawns.

CAVEAT >> Where I'm hunting now, private property, my Uncle wants the deer herd reduced so I kill adult does more than where I've hunted before.

Elsewhere the herd management may need different stipulations. It does not bother me for others to shoot fawns ELSEWHERE !

Jerry

Jwall - I think this would mainly apply to northern climates with significant winter kill.

I shoot fawns. I like to eat fawns. I like dragging fawns.

That said, it's been a while since I've done so. 7-8 years probably.

Understand.

That's why I mentioned here in the South.
It doesn't bother me for anyone to shoot what they want when/where legal.
I didn't intend to imply anything else.

Jerry

They are tender as all get out!

Shooting a mature doe past the rut and you're probably killing 3 for 1 if population control is the issue and in many places it is.

In Ohio its a 7 day shotgun/rifle season. Any deer is legal. I shoot the 1st one that gives me a good shot.

re nubbin bucks, you have to only look to make sure it doesn't have nubs... thats awful easy IMHO. At least on our deer it is.

Haven't come close to that mistake in probably 35 years since I was a young teen.

Day over after you shoot a deer? Don't get that at all?

We've shot as many as 10 deer in a morning on a cull, gutted and skinned and hugn all 10 and went again after lunch. Just the wife and I.

Neither of those tasks are so easily accomplished by those of us who hunt public land and/or heavily forested property. When a deer comes trotting through or slips through thick cover, it is pretty hard to determine whether is is a buck fawn or not. When that might be your only chance at a deer that day, you'd best slap leather or lose your opportunity. When said deer is put down a mile or two back in where you either do not have the ability or the legal right to use a quad or UTV, your day is pretty well done unless the temp is cold enough to gut and leave it lay. Lots of different hunting scenarios in different parts of the country. Just a different perspective.

Up here, about half the fawns never see their first birthday. Buck fawns, doe fawns, makes no difference. To maintain a population, shooting buck fawns does almost nothing to the year to year population. To reduce the population, start with does more than three years old.

Around my house, we have way too many. In 2014 I killed three does and a buck fawn and that did nothing to the total population in a half section. In 2015 I killed one yearling, two older does and one buck. After a careful and very accurate census of the neighborhood deer I figured I needed the cars to kill 6-10 and I needed to kill two mature does that have two fawns each and a couple more yearling does in 2016 to get to the point where I had 0 population growth. I now have 9 killed by cars since January. If I do my part, in 2017 I should be able to get by with killing a mature doe and a yearling doe.

It won't take much slacking off in the killing to let them get way out of control again though. No one else hunts here, and there's plenty of deer surrounding this half section. Slack off for a year and I will be right back in need of killing the breeding does four per year or more if possible.

I don't know WHY everyone has to assume a poster hasn't or doesn't hunt public land.

I did a lot of it for years here in TX and yes, you might only get one chance a day or even less at times. I still never killed a nub, simply because I"m not shooting until I know the target. Some years I never shot a doe even with tags just becuase I never got a clear shot.

I also don't know why folks feel that they HAVE to shoot something.

I"m lucky that I have deer at home, and on a lease but if I ever felt that I just HAD to kill something, even if that might be detrimental to the herd, I'd stop hunting.

I do hear you about the no ATV stuff and a mile or more in... BTDT. Its the way I prefer to hunt public, no access on antying but foot. Unfortunately there are not that many areas like that in TX public lands at times.

Last time I did it, I shot a spike that needed to go, before dark, did the gutless into my pack in pieces, and walked the almost 2 miles back to the truck in the dark. Drove back to camp area, had supper, had the deer on ice in the cooler and was up the next morning hunting again...
Sure couldn't do 10 that way but pretty sure the 10 in a morning took more time than gutless quartering and packing out.

I posted this on P 1.

B. There is not enuff meat worth a deer tag AND not enuff meat worth the effort.

"Generally" when you kill a deer (fawn or not) your hunt is over for the day.
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I could write a book right here but I'll condense it AMAP.
Jeff, others have responded since I posted and it 'seems' to me you still don't get it all.

Notice I said, Generally in quotes. I have killed 2 deer in 1 day a few times and don't plan to again UNLESS the WX is right to leave them hang outside.

I have been a member of 3 large Deer Camps (leases) at diff times and NONE of those camps have had 'COOLERS' for deer to hang. Around here it's @ 80 $ per deer to have them processed SO.... I ain't taking 10 deer to a processor.

SOOOO.. 1 deer per day is ENUFF and I'm not the only 1 in that boat.

IMO, I'd bet that MANY or MOST here are NOT in your situation > vice versa<< you are not in the same situation as most of US.



HEAR ! HEAR!

Miles is absolutely correct. Killing buck fawn does NOTHING to reduce a deer herd. You MUST kill the 'manufacturer' aka DOES.

I'll repeat and modify...

Every buck fawn you kill is an ANTLERED buck YOU will never see/hunt/shoot. It makes NO sense.


Jerry

Funny thread

In NC, fawn = dead if it's meat I'm after.

I like the insight on Austria.

I teach firearms safety to kids and I ask the kids about the ethics or choice of shooting a fawn when holding an antlerless tag. I get a wide range of responses when I ask that including the parents.

It doesnt help that I am standing by a spotted fawn decoy. ;-)

The austria thing will be a good thing to mention as a different theory.

I hear you bud. Wasn't meaning to imply that you hadn't hunted public. Merely responding to the statements in your post. I don't know why you didn't pick up on my inflection, facial expressions and other nonverbal cues by reading an internet post.