Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Which AK would you buy today if you were buying an AK?

The Mini 14 ammo thread got me to thinking, I am still convinced the Arsenal AK's remain the best out there but which model and why? Then you have to wonder with an AK's 3-4 MOA accuracy why would not a $600 "AK blaster" be just as good as the Arsenal?

Got me to thinking about Katrina, water up to your neck, mud, no AC, no 120 volt, no TV, no drinking water maybe another AK is not a bad idea! Thoughts?

I've heard the Century RAS47 AKs with the US made nitrided barrels are among the most accurate right now and even pretty well made. I know the snobs ain't gonna like that but hey, it's a freakin' AK!

Personally, I won't buy any more AKs. They are always a disappointment. The never shoot that great. The best I've had could squeeze out about 1 1/2" groups @ 100 for 5 shots, but after that the barrel got warm and walked just like every other AK I've shot.

jimmyp, I was thinking the same 10-12 years ago. Picked up custom made to my specs by a popular AK gunnie in AZ out on a hill at that time who will remain nameless (F*e*d*s hassling him too much) on a stamped receiver, 'cause that's exactly what I wanted.

Milled receiver versions are higher quality and possibly longevity, but you pay the price in weight. I wasn't willing to accept the tradeoff. Personal preference.

It does exactly what I bought it for, which is go bang every time I've squeezed the trigger with every Russian steel case ammo I've ever fed it. It will bounce a beer can across the ground at 75 yds, which is what and all I expected it to do. I paid $600 for it and some peripherals, including a laser. It's staying with me.

I picked up an M70AB2 Zastava Yugo underfolder from J&G Sales shortly after. It was the biggest POS and didn't cycle 5 rds in a row. Still got nothing but turds for J&G Sales on that one. They can still kiss my ass. Looked exactly like this:
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/559603558

but not saying this rifle is the same.

If you ever get down this way, you can take mine out for a drive and make up your own mind.





Buddy has a milled we may be able to get our hands on.

LD

I like your stock, nice looking weapon. I have never owned a cheap one I had some Bulgarian thing with a milled receiver I bought back in the 90's, more recently a gun from Arsenal. Thanks for the heads up on the Yugo, some say the WASR's are OK for a cheap gun? These days $1200 seems going price for Arsenal guns.

If I was going milled, an Arsenal is probably the way I'd roll. Yeah, they're not cheap. My favorite LGS sells them at a pretty good clip and one gunnie I'm pretty friendly with makes a decent buck making upgrades to them for a lot of the locals that buy them.

I've got a WASR10 I also picked up about 10 yrs ago for < $300. It's "ok". I keep it around to arm allies, if ever needed. It and a couple full 30 rd mags would go a long way in building a relationship.

I'd go milled, if I ever bought another. There is noticeable receiver flex with a stamped gun. Century Arms is supposedly now selling a US-made, milled receiver gun, that looks useful.

I have not heard about CMMG's Mutant, if they run reliably or not. An accurate, reliable rifle that uses AK mags so far seems to be unobtainium

Most folks will tell you there isn't a bit of difference between milled and stamped receivers as far as accuracy is concerned. Now that's assuming you aren't talking about a re-assembled parts kit gun with a thin aftermarket receiver. A stamped AK will also be about a pound lighter.

As far as which to get, I would either get one from Bulgaria or Russia. Yes, they cost a little more.

I had one of the stamped Inter Ordinance guns, which was a US Made supposedly all-new-parts gun. You could flex the receiver with your fingers.

You shouldn't be able to do that

I would blame Inter Ordinance and not all stamped receivers though.

Yeah.

Buy an AR.




Clark

RAS 47 is questionable,

Look
HERE


For good honest reviews.

Mike

That is too funny! What a POS.

Clark I have one or two of the 22 cal guns

Well help fight communism and buy another!

SONOFABITCH!




Dave

ummm...okay they beat the chit out of it and it kept firing. At least as long as it didn't have gravel in the action

That didn't exactly answer my questions

The one made in Finland.

If you take time and do some watching he mentions his WASR with 7,000 + rounds through it. Many video's where he reviews and torture tests the various brands so you can see whether or not the cheaper ones hold up.

Mike

Until they come back down in price, I wouldn't buy one. When they were $250-$350 they were good beater rifles. Now the cheap ones are $550+

For $600 you can piece together a decent AR with a chrome lined barrel.

There's an old saying in photography, that a camera body is a convenient place to mount a fine lens. In this case, I'm looking for a convenient place to insert AK mags...and hang my AK scope mount.

maybe the WASR instead of the $1200 Arsenal that shoots the same....

on TV all the cool operators use AK's.

This. Put a 7.62x40WT barrel on it, won't even have to buy new mags.

I have owned, and used, probably 20 different AK variations. The only one I kept was an Arsenal SA93. Simply the best of the best, and it will put "lie" to the three or four MOA reputation. Good, honest 1.5 to 2.5, all day long,

nice rifle!

Case closed!

FAL....

I would buy another Arsenal SGL21, just like the one I own now. The cheaper "knock-off" copies are missing important mil-spec features such as the bullet guide riveted to the front trunnion and the stud located on the left inside of the trunnion that serves to rotate the bolt into battery as it's pushed forward by the bolt carrier.

The piston is also hard chromed. MANY rounds through mine with zero malfunctions and plenty accurate for my purposes.

I put the longer NATO length stock on mine (synthetic) and a tritium front sight, a US Palm grip and a bunch of US Palm 30 round magazines.

Great Rifle. I have it's very close cousin the SGL20. Mine came with the NATO stock. The only thing I've done to mine is add a R/S mount and Aimpoint Pro sight.

I've owned milled and stamped from a varity of countries and this one is without a doubt the best of the bunch.

Only downside is they have gotten outragously expensive now that you can't buy them anymore.

That right there would be a hog killing machine here in FL.

The Saiga SGL series or the Arsenal SLR series. The stamped-receiver/poly side-folder is the best option. My current favorite AK has well over 18,000 rounds through it and is still going strong. Total of ONE malfunction in those 18,000+ rounds. That was remedied by touching the charging handle with one finger (the round didn't quite chamber fully). Bolt went forward and the rifle hasn't missed a beat in thousands of rounds since. I love my ARs, but an AR will stop working sooner and go down again sooner than an AR when conditions are bad. That's just the way it is and that's based on experience with hundreds of rifles from both sides. Each has its place and I encourage everyone to have plenty of both.

.....The Romanian guns are of measurably lower quality, though I have an under folder 7.62 with 12,000+ rounds on it that still works and shoots fine. I did replace the disconnector after the 11,000rd mark, however.

I'm geared up for AR's, but still love me some AK. Long-stroke gas piston just works. I've had x39 and .308 rifles in AK format shoot just as well as so-called rack grade AR's... assuming similar ammo. Add a free-float, decent trigger, and better ammo to an AR, then the difference widens. But for their intended purposes (assaulting?), they ain't that far apart other than the AR is much more optic-friendly.

And, I think you'd be hard pressed to find any respectable carbine instructor talk-down on either platform. Best to learn and understand both before judging either.

I've been out of the AK-game for awhile but the newer WASRs are getting some good reviews. And should be close to your budget limit.

J

Do you have the Saiga or the Arsenal? Sounds like you can go broke buying ammo for them before you break one of them.

I owned Saigas.

Rob Ski has some vids you might like. He's in the middle of an Arsenal torture test. Finish is bubbling/burning off and a trigger issue so far at 2000 rds.

Link -- Rob Ski vids

I have a Norinco MAK-90 with milled receiver that I replaced the ugly wood with walnut from Ironwood.

My stamped Russian SGL-20 will shoot 2.5 MOA all day long with Wolf ammo. And it will just cut under 2.0 MOA when fed Lapua ammunition.

I have never found the milled rifles to be any more accurate than a proper stamped gun. The supposed "receiver flex" is not where accuracy issues present in an AK; it's all that moving mass over the barrel.

Still, the SA93's are straight up the nicest AK's I've ever laid hands on.

The AK is a good weapon, it's just a very different thought process from the AR.

Back around 2003 when special ops were playing around with different weapons, including a 7.62x39 upper and a lower that would accept AK mags for their AR's, they just weren't having much luck with such things. So their boss asked them why not use AK's when in the field for long periods of time (they wanted to be able to use captured ammo). The special ops guys all said the AK was chit. When their bosses told them to prove it, they had to do a very exhaustive series of tests on the AK, and lo and behold; they determined the AK was a good weapon, capable of pretty much anything they needed it to do in the field. So they dumped the 7.62x39 AR idea and have been using AK's ever since (for the ops where they expect to used captured ammo).

when you consider the average accuracy of the AR and ball and then the M1A and ball and then the M1 and ball, the AK can't really be all that bad.

They suck IMHO, but I'm an accuracy nut... I just don't like big groups. I expect to hit where I aim even at 100 yards and 4 MOA doesn't allow that often.

But really, a rack M1A and AR will shoot much better with great ammo. An AK I've never seen that make a lot of different.

An M1, well it needed some work for sure. Plus better ammo.

When you figure average engagement distnaces and target size, then you realize why sloppy guns still get it done.

Jimmy, I'm not a fan of the AK-47. However, I read with interest the latest article in Gun Tests about the US made PSA AK-47 MOE Edition, and the Century Arms RAS47 Magpul-Zhukov guns.
They had good things to say about both. I suggest you look up the article. E

At least you can sling those up when you shoot. Can't effectively do that with an AK. So, the practical accuracy of those is at least 2x better than the AK.

My club has 200 yard matches monthly. It's really not hard to find an M1 that will hold the 10 ring of an SR target using a sling. But I've yet to see anyone even hold a SR center with an AK. Even with a scope. It's just not a very "shootable" rifle.

The PSA guns are interesting - they have both an AR that accepts AK mags, and a bonafide AK. They don't list the prices, at least not at the moment.

Honestly these says I'm not sure I'd be buying an AK. The only ones I think are truly solid rifles are the Bulgarian Arsenal's, and they're just over-priced. I love AK's I think they're great and a lot of fun, but in my mind there's a point where where he value/dollar curve dissect and I'm just not willing to part with that much cash for an AK.

Galil circa 80s folding stock

Robinson circa 2015 folding stock 308

Holy Borscht Batman. The least expensive Arsenal variant is $2k on their website.

You could build a TOP SHELF AR15 that would shoot sub MOA all day long.

And some of you are happy with 2.5" ? I don't understand.

Too me, they're just a fun "Pray-n-Spray" plinker.


JMHO

I paid $875 for mine and already have a few very accurate AR's. I imagine most folks here are the same. For me this is a hobby and the AK has a place in my safe. I could make a few bucks if I wanted to sell it but I kinda like having it around.

they are certainly as best I can do about 3-4 inches at 100 yards with Tulammo. On the other hand the prices are not going down anytime soon. Are they worth $1200 as you can find a stamped Arsenal gun for sale in a guns store? That is really a personal decision and must be a lot of people buying them at $1200 as my LGS gets 3 in and they are gone in a couple of days. The cheaper $600 ones like that RAS thing seem to stick around, I guess the word is out on that gun.

An SKS also seems like a good idea and they are considerably cheaper.

My Russian SGL-20 will shoot 2.5MOA all day long with Wolf Ammo; that's sufficient for anything I'm likely to ask of a combat rifle. Winchester and Remington brass cased 7.62x39 doesn't shoot as accurately in my rifle as the steel cased Wolf, and Wolf is WAAAY cleaner. Tula isn't nearly as accurate as my stash of Wolf, and it's even more dirty than the Winchester and Remington.

Now pick up a box of Lapua 7.62x39 and my SGL-20 will shoot right about 1.75MOA...but only the Finnish military can afford to shoot Lapua, and they do it in the finest military rifle ever built, the RK-95.

Arsenal SRL107FR



IMO this is the finest AK out there and Atlantic has it for $999
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/com...-side-folding-rifle-detail.html?Itemid=0

I still think that's over-priced, but in the grand scheme of AK prices, it's the best value if you have to have an AK.

I have not been able to get much better than 3-4 inches out of one for 10 shots, even with a 2MOA aimpoint. Wish I had never sold my Bulgarian gun.

Holy Hogschidt do you ever read your crap before you post. Of course it took the the U.S. military until 2003 to figure out they may have to utilize Combloc weapons every now and then. This is a fact because you posted it .


mike r

With all these "all day long" comments you would think an AK would show up in the challenge thread.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...s/9834630/24HC_Black_Rifle_Challenge_Thr

You can sling an AK.... its no worse or better than any other non floated rifle IMHO.. IE not that smart to tension it a lot.

I've shot a couple of 200 yard matches with my AK... which his stamped laughingly on the side NM.... Dunno that I left the black all that often, but im not sure that I broke 700 much either in the end. Sights leave a LOT to be desired for my eyes.

AKs sling (and shoot slung) like hogschitt compared to even a rack-grade M1 or M14. And I've never seen barrels that walk so randomly. At least with an improperly slung, unfloated AR or FAL you know where the POI is going. Down.

Also, pure accuracy is one thing, but even that is nothing if the gun isn't shootable.

I need to find someone local that will loan me their RAS and shoot that 400 point challenge with it. I have not been shooting enough lately, this would be a useful comparison shot side to side with an AR.

Why the NRA finds that the gun produces 1 MOA groups!

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2016/2/2/review-century-arms-ras47-ak-rifle/

but maybe not, closes on a no go gauge at 5000 rounds!

watch until the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs7eK2SmGYM

The finest Aks are the IMI Galil and Hadars, and the American Robinsons which will shoot with other military rifles
AK was designed as a tank support weapon and as the story goes shoot low for untrained shooters.
Current AKs work better with a stock change out. I have an Arsenal that does well on 8 inch plates to 200 yards of hand. Use of the scout Ultimak mount does wonders for consistency. My Maadi under folder uses a dot but does well. Comparing the accuracy to AR rifles simply means your shooting to slow, however an AR set up for 3gun will usually do better in that type of comparison.
My Robinson XCR will shoot with any AR. All shoot miserably compared with my Bean lower, McCormick trigger,PrS stock OPS Grizzley upper side charger with Lija barrel.
What does this show? Apples do compare to oranges when your only looking at the fructose content.

The finest AK's were/are the Finnish AK's hands down. The Robinson's are just VEPR's, which is a standard AK with a RPK receiver.

But the current Sako made RK95 is a whole lot better rifle than any Galil ever built, and world's better than the VEPR's.



So that's for the military rifles.

If you want the best of the best in a semi-auto, you want the Valmet M76. Most that were brought into the US were 5.56, but there were some 7.62x39's that made it in, and they're simply sublime. But they tend to run 3-4 thousand dollars; which kinda takes the fun right out of them.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree.

What are your opinions on a FEG SA-85m imported by KBI? I have one NIB, but I am not a fan of the thumbhole stock. are these known as good or bad shooters? Is it worth altering it for different grip, handguard and stock? It looks like this:

I guess I consider my AK so non accurate that sling had nothing to do with that issue... it wasn't wondering, it just patterns instead of grouping.

I see you fixed the pic

Yes they are to bad they never caught on.


With all due respect the measurement being used here is reminiscent of one handed NRA shooting.
A better comparison would be what's happening in 3 gun matches, which are stil skewed toward the ar.
Take 6 or so pepper poppers at random ranges and set them for 7.6 rounds. Now change to the winner is who knocks them down the fastest. Even an ak shooting 5.5 will do relatively well but it will take multiple timed hits using at least 69 grs.to keep up with an arsenal especially using a scout scope set up.

Stock set with ban set up is ackward. Cut out the piece and make a pistol grip. Or use at least 4 manufactured in US parts as replacement

NRA still shoots one handed..

RE power to knock steel down... I get that.

You'll still be as dead if I center you with the first 77 smk as you would be if I hit you with an AK. Other than the fact I might not be able to hit you as close to center as I'd like with the AK. LOL.

Regardless, in the end the ticket always is going to be a reliable gun, your choice, accurate enough, again your pick, but practice practice practice. Junk AK or match AR or anywhere in between....

That's the point , it's usually the operator.
NRA bullseye gave way to advances in technique because different yardsticks were used. my grand mother can kill using here flintlock she's just not very fast. Current door kicker carbines in ar have more in common with ak than their origins especially when using body armour and chest holding techniques with short adjustable stocks.
When the course of fire is changed to stop favoring the best attributes of that gun the picture changes. When was last time you shot in a match where the weapon was submerged in mud at the start signal or at least one of your targets was covered with a no shoot and a hard barrier covering the shooter and the real biggy a 10 point penalty for shooting standing slinged up because shooting without cover is s tactical error.

The best asset a shooter has is their internal clock. Knowing how long ittakes to get the shot off at the distance of that target. Size of target doesn't matter, as it is just another way to look at time. Viewing the dynamics with only one variable simplifies.

The best AK-47/AKM (74 is a different beast) is one with a folding stock and a trigger that ain't too light. Nice and small and a good weapon out to 150 yards or so. Other than that, they're a waste of time and money but better than a "Mini" anything.

That's weird, that's obviously not the photo I posted.

I am not an expert but it is time to buy another case of practice ammo. I respect the AK however I am afraid that try as you may we cannot get past the origen of the gun and its reason for being. I am also afraid that two average individuals and not super shooters facing each other at over 100 yards a scoped AR would bring a lot to the party over a standard AK.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re9pZYvbwt8

If in fact Sig has the bugs worked out that XI thing would be absolute perfection in my mind. But it was SO bad when they introduced it, the gun reviewer dude just started laughing as it jammed and ftf again and again.

All my AK's are/were the dirt cheap trashy variety and I never had any probs with them. 50 yard hammer for home defense, what is not to like? When they get expensive I lose interest.

The first batch of Sig 7.62x39's that I saw did not impress me at all. Design wise it was slick, but the stock seemed extremely cheap, as did the overall manufacture quality. I got to shoot one and it had some significant reliability issues. I didn't give it much thought and just lost interest in the rifle altogether; just didn't seem like a serious effort on Sig's part to me.

Check out that AK operators Union dude, he beats the hell out of them. The head space issue in one of them was very dangerous and it develops over 5000 rounds fired.

Check out the Henderson Defense Las Vegas rental range high round count rifle threads on AR15.com. Stamped receiver
AK's crack front trunnions, if I remember right, at 80,000 rounds, many more tidbits are there.
Kalashnikov once said that in his opinion the Bulgarian milled guns were the best of the breed. But I got a SAR 1 which works just fine for now. 4 rounds into 4 inches at 100 yards sitting position in 20 seconds, 4 rounds into 8 inches at 200 yards. Something foolish about the sight of a bench rested AK.