Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Accubond performance question

AB's work great. Go to the nosler forum and look under bullet tests.

Yeah the only thing I can think is he got a bad lot of bullets

No doubt they did.....

Just pointing out what i see as the differences between the bullets. That would be a slightly smaller expanded frontal area for the Partition and weight for weight slightly more penetration.

You gotta work hard to keep a 200 gr 30 caliber Partition in an elk in any but the very longest angles. Since penetration with an expanding bullet is the first reason I reach for a 200 gr 30 caliber bullet, I'd use the Partition and have.

The 140 AB pictured above was sort of banged up from that shot and looks nothing like Butch's recovered 140's because his were started some 400 fps slower from a 7/08 and had much less rotational velocity too. Likely impact velocity was a lot less too....which goes to show what we all should know about impact velocity. The higher the velocity the more violent the expansion. You can't expect a bullet to behave exactly the same way given those differences in velocity. Anyway that 140 AB has 59 gr of bullet left.It still killed good because it chewed up plenty of vital tissue on the way.

I'd use the 140 AB again in a 7mm that liked it. I have a bunch.

The other two are Bitterroots, one from a 280 at 3080, the other a 7 RM at 3200+. Both shots at less than 100 yards, a lung hit on a 300# bear and DRT first shot, the other on a big muley, similar to the 140 AB,and DRT as rifle recoiled. Both weigh about 138-139 gr, expanded to over .65 caliber.

No blood trails. Lots of use of BBC's over the years have shown similar results. Which is why I say for me they have generally been the fastest killers; Partitions a close second. ...on anything. Maybe not the best choice for 1000 yard shots but I don't do that . Outside my skill sets

I have used ABs in a variety of rifles and cartridges, ranging from a .257 AI up to a .375 H&H. I have used them to take coyotes, pronghorns, Coues whitetails, desert mule deer, elk, impala, kudu, waterbuck, oryx, and eland. I have never lost an animal. Other than a couple of big bull elk that stood around long enough for me to shoot again, I have not shot an animal a second time. There has never been a need for blood trails, as most animals died pretty much where they stood or they went down within sight or ear shot.

Until I got up to critters weighing more than 350 lbs or so, I never recovered a bullet. On the bigger stuff, I have probably recovered about half of them. Retained weights in the ones that I have recovered probably would average around 55-60 percent. As others have mentioned, it is usually quick and easy to find a load that will shoot MOA or less.

I still experiment with other bullets, but I seldom shoot anything but ABs at game these days. YMMV.

mudhen,

If you weight the larger recovered AccuBonds in your collection, above .30 caliber, you'll probably find they retain considerably more than 60% of their weight. This is because Nosler assumes the larger-caliber, heavier AB's will be used on heavier game, so designs them to retain more weight. In a previous post on this thread, I listed the AB's that I've seen stay inside animals over the years: Those over .30 caliber averaged 79%.

Nosler has long done the same thing with Partitions, which is why I'm always amused when somebody states Partitions retain 60 or 65% of their weight. The over-.30 Partitions I've recovered from various large animals have retained from 74% to 95% of their weight, averaging around 85%.

John,

You may well be right--I haven't actually weighed any since my last trip to Namibia, nine years ago. I was going mostly on memory--and these days, mine sure ain't what it used to be!

I shot one whitetail buck at ~ 150 yards from a 270 when they first came out. He dropped out of site when I shot. I went over to retieve him, but he wasn't their. No blood in the snow and tracks mingled in with all the other deer tracks. I looked til dark, but never found him. I got to think I missed, but the deer did fall.

I haven't shot anything with them since, but not because that soured me on them just that I have plenty others to us up.

How do you know that the velocity was 400 fps less? Less rotational velocity? Sounds like a bunch of BS to me.

Or...do you believe that the 7/08 is only capable of 2800 fps with a 140?

Funny stuff.

Did you look at the exit wound on that bull I shot at 25 yards with my 7RM and 160 AB? If your "theory" holds any water, it should have had a basketball sized exit, or at least displayed the "violent expansion "theory". Impact velocity was likely over 2900 FPS. Didn't look too "violent" to me.

I've never seen violent expansion with an AB, and I've never seen a lack of expansion either.

IMO/E, there isn't enough difference, performance wise, between a partition and an AB to even discuss. I shot partitions for close to 30 years, in a wide variety of rifles. They work great too, but no better than an AB.

Butch if you think I was being critical I wasn't. I was looking at the bullet you shot at (what?) 629 yards from a 7/08.

Yeah I think a 7/08 is capable of 2800 fps with a 140, no more than 2900 at sane pressures. That's based on having had 8-10 of them.



What was your starting velocity? Your impact velocity? I was comparing it to mine at 3200 fps + from a 7 Rem mag and impacting at 175 yards. There's a picture of the bullet posted above. That's all that's left....59 grains and it was ground to a pulp. Facts whether you like them or not.

It's also a fact that the rotational velocity will be higher starting the bullet at 3200+ than at 3100, 2900, 2800, or whatever velocity you are starting them at,assuming the twist is the same..What twist is your 7/08?

If you think that rotational velocity has no effect on bullet expansion guess again.

I would also venture a guess that your impact velocity at 629 yards was a LOT less than mine. So, what you think is BS I have no idea......Geezus.

Yes, I think that expansion is more violent at close range than long range....that doesn't mean that it isn't "controlled" as in your 160 7RM load, or like my Bitterroots shown above.

They call bullets like Bitterroots, partitions, and AB's "controlled expansion bullets" for a reason. Surely you know that.

Yes I saw the exit from the 160....big friggin deal...I've seen it 100 times from 160 Nosler Partitions. Violent expansion does not mean "disintegration"...

Everyone ( I thought) knows that bullets expand more violently at high velocity than low velocity.

Again I have no idea what you think was BS about what I posted, unless your reading comprehension is lacking somehow.

shot this pig at 75 or so yards with a 180ab at about 3200ft ps out of my 300 win mag, hit in the front left shoulder almost straight on and it exited the ham.

BobinNH,

No, you weren't looking at the bullet I shot the cow with at 629...the bullet exited. About a 50 cent piece sized exit.

According to the "experts" it shouldn't have exited, and shouldn't have expanded, depending on the expert.

Also, my wife's 7-08 with 43.0 grains of varget and 140 AB's gets 2930 FPS. My 7/08 with the same recipe gets 2870 or so.

Even though, according to you, I'm not sane, I'm getting 2940ish with RL 19 and 140 AB's. Havent seen pressure signs yet, and it shoots like total chit:



I have not seen the extremes that many have...of course I haven't shot but maybe 40 or 50 big-game animals with them...maybe the next 50 I'll see something different.

Again you're assuming I'm being critical and I wasn't.

30 fps one way or another is nothing to get excited about. You can get that much variation switching lots of powder, so 2930 fps doesn't bring me down with a case of the hives. And "no" I don't think you're insane. I think the 7/08 is a good capable cartridge but velocity is limited by its capacity. Nothing new there and you are hardly the first one to work up loads for on.

Who said your 140 wouldn't exit at long range? That just illustrates my point...lower velocity,less "violent" expansion, deeper penetration. Everyone knows that too. Again, compare it to mine at 3200 fps + See a difference?

The 160 from the 7 mag at close range illustrates the opposite. No doubt it expanded "violently", but because of its tough construction, it did not "disintegrate", and exited. Makes perfect sense. Seen it many times with Partitions in different calibers.

Point is it isn't 3200-3300 fps, the velocity that bullet achieves in a 7 mag. there's a clear difference in the way the bullets behaved and velocity is the reason. That's all I was trying to illustrate. Sorry you took offense.

Glad you've killed so many with the AB.I'm way over that number with the Partition but don't really care for box scores...the AB came along too late to peak my interest very much. But I'll give them a run here and there.

I'm almost loath to get into a AB thread, but I've had nothing but positive results over the years and animals I shot with them. Somewhere in the low to mid-20's, mostly deer and elk using a 270 Win and 140 AB's at 3040.

Nothing went wonky in the slightest way. Just dead animals that died like it was planned. Oh, sometimes a dying dash here or there, but blood trails were always there and led to something dead. Pretty much the same results I had when using Partitions for 2 decades.

I'm pretty sure I've found all that stayed inside an animal and that has been about 25% staying inside.

Lonny,

Like you, I used the partitions for a couple decades. The the Barnes came out and they were outrageously accurate in the 7mm Weatherby and okay in my 7mm wildcats. Last year I loaded some 140s in my son-in-law's 6.5RUMLN at 3,420 and this year will be using them in my 6.5SLR at 3,160 feet per second.

Duplicating partition performance with a higher B.C. definitely tickles me.

Nah...

Last week I put a 225 gr 35 cal Accubond through a 200 lb black bear. The hole through the bear was about 1.5" in diameter. The exit hole was the size of e tennis ball. The 225 gr .35 cal Accubond is a good bullet out of a .35 Whelen.

No Barnes bullet made will duplicate nosler partition performance. They are different animals. The partition is obviously designed to shed some of it's frontal weight, while the Barnes X, TSX, TTSX are designed to shed virtually nothing.

BobinNH,

I used partitions for 25 years as well and killed a pile of animals with them.

I cant see any significant difference between performance with an AB and a partition...including penetration.

Caught about the same percentage of partitions as AB's in animals.

I still haven't seen any violent expansion from an AB, even though I was really concerned about from reading the BS, lies. and half truths on the internet. As luck would have it, the first elk I killed with one was the bull at 25 yards...thought it was going to be a disaster. I guess it was violent enough to almost ruin 4 oz of top quality elk rib meat.

That's not entirely accurate- the TTSX definitely seems to shed its petals much more readily than previous iterations, IME.

Correct, have seen the 130 gr TSX do the same at 264 Win Mag speeds. It probably helps them kill better with a bit more damage just like John Nosler discovered years ago with his Partition.