Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Model 70 vs 84M

What would you like? For them to absolutely not use wood that is over a certain moisture threshold?


I don't have either but want both - in synthetics. There's every appearance of more hand work on the Kimbers, but they appear rushed... Guessing the Winnys pop out of zillion dollar wonder machines... Mas rapido Jose muy Kimber stockos hoy! In Costa Rica you do as you're told - ship it!

I'm a Winchester guy, but also think you get a lot of rifle for $1,000.00 when it comes to the Kimber montana.

Trying to figure out here if Kimbers are so great why do you pay $1000 to get a rifle you have to rebarrel?


Course....I'm a 'hater'......

My experience with Kimber has been when they shoot they shoot really well. The stock shaping (both wood and synthetic) mack them the best looking commercial rifles in the price range. No question

When they don't shoot they need fixing which is generally a PITA,and even when I know what to do, I don't feel like putting the time effort and /or money into the fix, because as cute and innovative as I think they are, I still don't love them despite the light weight.

I say this after maybe a dozen of them in various calibers. Plus, I am a tall guy and the short action rifles seem short coupled to me, handle funny and feel awkward. But lots of people like them and this is definitely a personal choice thing.

I should say there really isn't a single new rifle in the $800-$1200 range I'd pay two cents for today so I'm not singling Kimber out for any criticism. JMO.

Gimme a pre 64 or Classic M70, or old school Rem 700...with todays components I can build a rifle under 7 pounds if I want, that shoots and always works,and will last 30+ years and through 3-4 barrel changes before I get sick of it.



Heres the last thing I tossed together, and beats a Kimber everywhere but weight,shoots better than its owner, does not need to be returned for warranty and was not bedded by a slave action and some guy who doesn't care about customer service. It was built by guys who GIS. That means I don't have to chase my tail and ask for solutions on the CF.

It cost more money but so what? Nothing good ever comes cheap.

Nice, Bob.

How about the details on that one.

DF

Rebarrel only if they don't shoot...

Seems some do shoot...

Thus, the "Kimber roulette" oft discussed.

In my case, I had no chair when the music stopped...

My smith and Broughton solved that "problem".

I had traded for the used gun and wasn't in so heavy that I'm now under water. I could recoup my investment, as a proven shooter (half MOA) with a premium barrel should bring a bit more than an out of the box, what you see is what you get, Kimber.

I have several M-70's, a bunch of M-700's, just one Kimber...

DF

Kimber makes really attractive, well designed guns, then cuts corners on components, IME. I'd be real curious to know how they make the Mauser-style extractor on the M84. I doubt it's a forging or barstock, however though I've never heard of anyone breaking one.

A good barrel is the heart of any rifle, IMO. And if Ruger can make money on moderate priced American Rifles, and put good barrels on them, Kimber oughta be able to do it on a more expensive gun.

But it's built on a Remington M700 action. You can put as much lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig.

The same applies to Winchester, they don't offer a properly twisted 243 or a short action .264 properly twisted.

I solved the issue rebarreling a used EW to 260 but it cost more for the McM.

I did the same for almost the same cost to a Montana, have a second in the pipeline, and I am not buying stocks.

I rebarreled a new Montana 223, it did not shoot as well as I wanted and now it shoots good, with an 8 twist barrel and I am not finished working on my loads.

The 7WSM is good, straight from the factory, it will stay as issued.

I do prefer the feel of the 70 action, much nicer than the Montana. But without a doubt, the Montana is a great value, even as a donor.

Bob has a very attractive "pig", there, lipstick not needed...

Those Remingtons have accounted for a lot of game, spent a lot of time on benches and at long range target ranges over the decades.

So, I guess there are a bunch of us who disagree on the M700.

Now, after saying that, I prefer the older ones to the new ones, just me...

DF

That's you opinion. For some applications I have no problem with a Rem 700. There are over 5 million of them in circulation which tells me guys like you are all FOS.

Anytime you want to match M70's owned or previously owned, Im your huckleberry.

I'll bet you're one of those guys who thinks a M70 Classic is great right out of the box,cause its a M70. Another real POS in my opinion that needs lots of TLC before they get to hunt. Mostly,junk.

Yeah but it has one of those evil Rem triggers that go off by themselves.
I guess everything has a weak point. (At least that's what I heard on a certain internet site.)

Im a Rem M700 fan too. Don't know how I could have run tens of thousands of rounds through them without all the bad stuff happening I keep reading about....

DF: The barreled action was put together by Norbert Costa from Boise who is a top precision smith and would shoot Reelman into a rat hole at 1000 using that rifle.

Chambering is 6.5 Creed. Short 700 action, Benchmark 8 twist tube,fluted/stainless..

Sunny Hill alloy bottom metal. Timmy trigger.

Echols Shrike bedded by Alex Sitman of Master Gunstocks who does a lot of match rifle bedding. Very good, meticulous guy.

BTW function s flawless and yes it shoots. Far better than any M70Classic I ever bumped into. I used to call the Classic a "project in a box".

If the Rem 700 were such a POS I doubt Darcy would waste his time making a top end stock for it. Darcy does not put lipstick on pigs.

I have some with early Walker triggers, tuned to perfection. The rest have Timney 510's.

DF

Not an apples to apples, but I took my 6.5x55 fwt to Colorado last year. A friend had a Kimber 84l in 30-06. To me the Kimber felt lighter, pointed better. I would handle them both if possible before spending any money. His was just as accurate as mine.

+1 DF

No way I would call that a pig.

I suspect Bob is into that rifle for well over two Montana's, but you do get what you pay for.

WA you'd be about right.


Besides why do I need 2-3 rifles when one good one does all I need?

I don't own a Kimber yet but have had several 700's and 70's and just a few observations;

Owned a NH M70 Featherweight and functioning was flawless. Just plain worked. It shot well enough but many small quality details made it hard to live with. Chambering was 6.5x55. Much room in the long action box for COL latitude but a very sloppy chamber. Throat very deep. Fit and finish could be classified as fair. Would shoot about 1.25 with 140 Sierras, a little better with 120 Nosler BT's. Light on the front end made off hand a bit wobbly.

Currently own a 70 Super Grade BACO and the fit and finish are very, very good. The rifle has a very long throat, not even touching the lands with a 3.5 COL .300 mag. The magazine has been opened up to allow a longer COL and the bolt stop and ejector modified to accommodate the increase. Not had any problems with the follower but the rifle will stutter on occasion when operated hard and fast. The trigger, while not of the old design is very good on the model I have. No creep and breaks cleanly. Project is ongoing. Currently shoots about 1.25 with 208 Amax at 3.34.

M700 of about 1984 vintage. Fit and finish better than fair. Very long mag box gives a lot of flexibility. Rifle is currently on it's 3rd stock, 3rd scope, 2nd bottom metal and 3rd or 4th ring set. Barrel is original and by the feel of the cleaning rod quite worn although it appears shiny to the naked eye (i don't own a borescope). Functioning is good but it will stutter when ejecting dummy rounds from the chamber when operated hard and fast. Will shoot 208's into about 1.00 despite the wear and tear. 200 Partitions about 1.5. The trigger is the old dangerous design and while the pull weight is good has just a bit of creep that I can't adjust out.

I haven't handled an old SAKO or the newer Kimbers but would be interested to see how they compare in quality and precision.

Ingwe is correct, the FN Featherweight is the best Winchester!