Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Bear protection - loads?

I bought a Ruger SR40. I've been reading interweb discussions on bear loads for various handgun cartridges and came across this website and test results: http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#howtoread

From the results, I've been researching 3 loads for the 40 S&W - Hornady XTP Custom 155 gr, Remington 165 gr golden Saber, Sig Sauer 165 gr V-Crown

I want something that mushrooms a bit but not alot such that it really retards penetration. I'm thinking 20" of penetration should be sufficient for 2 and 4 legged critters I'd encounter in the woods.

I'm also looking at a couple of the Buffalo Bore offerings namely the 140 gr Barnes and 200 gr lead. The meplat on the 200 gr load doesn't look overly impressive.

Comments on the choices identified above? Others to consider?

Thanks.

Assuming your bear defense will be only black bears, I would use full metal jackets in the hottest load available. I would prefer a 357mag or a 10mm, but with proper placement the 40 may suffice. Seward AK police dept several years ago had a black bear attacking horse, shot multiple times, one of the officers involved was not impressed with the 40's performance, used hollow points.

For protection from bears you don't want an expanding bullet in a handgun !

For protection from any dangerous animal I want a bullet that will make it leak from both sides.

If I had a 40 and wanted something for big critter defense I would look at this load. https://www.underwoodammo.com/40-s-w-140-grain-xtreme-penetrator/

There was another recent thread about handguns for bears. If you do a 30 day search for 458Win's posts, you'll find all you need to know.
Then, you can choose who's advice you want to take, 458Win's, who has probably seen more bears shot every year for the last 30 years than most people SEE in their lifetime, or the guys from the states who get all their knowledge from the innanet. (Tough choice, huh?)

True this. Repeated because it dead on.

So in your opinion, even a full metal jacket would be better than a typical self defense bullet?

Had the same question. I understand the 2 hole theory but at some point tissue damage is what causes death. More tissue damage = quicker death. This is why I thought a little bit of expansion wouldn't be bad.

That's the advantage of the Lehigh Defense round. It penetrates almost as deep as a heavy solid with a large meplat yet produces the wound channel as large as a hollow point.

With that said, I have never shot a bear with this or any other round so I am only speaking from research gained on the "interweb".

Expansion reduces penetration. That is why even elephant hunters using powerful rifles choose solids and if you are counting on a handgun to immediately stop a bear from chewing on you, you need all the penetration you can get in order to reach the brain or break the neck.

Having seen the affects of a .40 on a medium sized black bear I'd choose a different caliber. As mentioned though, I'd not choose an expanding bullet.

This is what you want for bear, careful, cannot be used in all handguns.


https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=54

Wow, I knew buffalo bore was special ammo. I did not realize they were so special you could shoot their 44 mag in a 40 S/W handgun.

My son's 2013 Kodiak bear had the lead core from a 357ish bullet in the flesh between hide and skull, top right rear. The bullet had knocked a chunk out of the right nuchal ridge and continued forward. No sign of the jacket and it was well healed-over.

Some basic observations here. I've had a fair bit of experience removing bears for a living from a large commercial tree farm in Wa. State. All Black bears. These comments are only and solely regarding Black bears.

Shooting snared Black bears was quite telling on the reactions they would have at impact. Generally a bear I would shoot with a .44 magnum revolver using a 310 grain Garrett cartridges hard cast bullet would make the bear bolt upon impact and not even show any reaction to being hit. He would slam to the ground when the cable slack went out on the foot snare. I would guess I did this 75-100 times with similar or even identical reactions.

Doing the same thing with a 240 grain Hornady XTP as fast as I could get them to go would fold the bear upon impact and quite often have them biting at the entry hole.

Speaking only for myself, If a was expecting or living in a location were I could be charged by a Black bear I would prefer the fold upon impact function of the 240 XTP over the 310 grain Hardhats bullet 100% of the time.

When a carefully placed shot is possible and you are certain you could break front leg bones or the skull, a solid hard cast bullet is perfect. However if you are not certain that bones or CNS can be hit, then zipping through the soft tissue is not a good option.

My experience doing this ranged on bears from 150-450 pounds, most averaged in the 250-300 range. Actually over half would have been this big. I did not usually do this test on a smaller then average bear that would provide no threat in real life.

When considering a Grizzly, or Brownie, which have about 3 times the body mass and three times the attitude I would certainly opt for a big heavy deeply penetrating bullet that could hopefully drill through the thick layer of fat in a fall bear and get into the good stuff.

At no point would I ever choose anything smaller then 10mm or .44 mag even for a black bear. No load used in a 357 mag provided even close to the decisive reaction to the .44 mag or 45 long colt. YMMV ........choose wisely.

I would certainly not choose either an XTP or a Golden Sabre for your intended purpose. Neither would I choose a smooth profile non-expander. The simplest solution that is most probably adequate is a good hard cast bullet which has a flat meplat with a distinct edge around its circumference. Such bullets penetrate well, are less inclined to deflect, and have the greatest chance of breaking something significant along their longer path of penetration. You may or may not get an immediate bam-flop with such a bullet, but it gives you the best opportunities to break or tear something vital which essentially stretches the concept of bullet placement- which should never be dismissed.

The smallest cartridge I'd consider on Black bear protection would be a 44 mag. I would not want to piss the bear off with 10mm, 357, or a 40.

A rifle would be better.

My two cents worth. If you don't like it, that's ok.

When Uncle was flying bush in AK (1950's) he chose a Ruger .357 Magnum with what looked to me to be 10" barrel.

Here in CO I worry about 2-legged predators more than the 4-legged type. In any case, after carrying a .357 Mag (because I had one) on my first couple of elk hunts, I gave it up as too heavy and cumbersome when carried in addition to a rifle. Since then whatever rifle I have in my hands at the time was all I had. When hunting with a handgun I use a Ruger Super Redhawk .44 Mag.

Screw the handgun. A pact with the bears is better! If they don't try to put big ugly holes in me, I won't in them! ..,well except the occasional blackie for meat. Been working for me here for 48 years. So far.

When my Blackhawk burned up in a fire about 30 years ago I never replaced it. A .30-30 is more powerful, and that's my walkabout gun. I do have a Python in .357Mag that I haven't carried afield in more than 15 years. That's one of my home defense people guns... for 150 bucks used, I'm still smiling.... Not a bear gun tho, unless you stick it in their mouth. Or yours.

If you are carrying anything less than a .44Mag handgun, or even above for bear protection, be sure to file the front sight off.

Bearanoi is way over-rated. Tho I did load the '94 and park it beside the bed before I got on-line. I have fish prepping for the smoker, and there was a brownie track in the driveway this morning. If I was worried the .338WM would be out.

I may be stupid, but I ain't paranoid.