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Joined: Apr 2005
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Campfire Tracker
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Since there seems to be a paucity of actual experience with Barnes Bullets - especially the 150gr .308 fired out of a 30-06 - actually used on game beyond 400 yards, why don't we try a little simpler method to answer his question?
I think most can agree that at impact velocities above 1800fps, the OP will likely be getting SOME expansion from the TTSX, but that a standard cup-and-core would likely do better in that relatively low-velocity situation.
The question then becomes, at what range does his 30-06's bullet drop below 1800fps?
Using the Hornady online ballistics calculator, I started off a 150gr .308 TTSX (B.C. = .420) at 2860fps. These are the results:
400 yards: 2046 fps 450 yards: 1955 fps 500 yards: 1867 fps 550 yards: 1781 fps
So if we use the cutoff point of 1800 fps, we see the OP can expect a minimum amount of expansion at his stated goal of 400-500 yards. However, he should be aware that with a 200 yard zero, the bullet will drop nearly FOUR FEET (45.2 inches) at 500 yards, which makes contacting the animal with a bullet a task I wouldn't want to undertake.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing -- Edmund Burke
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Campfire Tracker
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As an addendum, since expansion at low velocities isn't exactly the Barnes' strong point, perhaps he should be thinking of a high-quality cup-and-core bullet (which, incidentally, function very well at 2800 fps and below) as his "do everything" choice - like the Accubond or the Partition?
I know it wasn't the question, but that's what I chose for my 30-06, since it seems to have a decided preference for 150gr bullets.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing -- Edmund Burke
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What velocity do the 168 open up to?
All of them do something better than the 30-06, but none of them do everything as well.
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This may have been discussed already, but... Are the LRX and TTSX basically the same, one just having a better BC; or, is the LRX designed for expansion at longer distances, lower velocities than the TTSX?
Don't just be a survivor, be a competitor.
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Campfire Outfitter
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The LRX is designed to open at 1600 fps...
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Shooting into water jugs at 1800 FPS produced at or very near full expansion for me. I keep all my Barnes up in the 2000-2100 FPS range as a safety margin though.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I know I'm late to the party, and I've had some very good experiences with them. I've also seen beyond the 'glow' they seem to have for many. 120 TSX - 200 yard caribou, 7mm-08 235 TSX (#2)- 150 yard moose, 375-350 Rem Mag 100 XFB - 200 yards caribou x2, 7mm-08 225 XFB - 125 yards caribou, 340 Weatherby 85 XBT - 300-400 yards caribou, 6mm 225 XFB - 495 meters moose, 340 Weatherby Most have zipped through, most have been effective quite quickly. But copper is always going to be hard. Sometimes it just doesn't open as well and penetrate as well as we hope. I"ve seen those before, and I'm continually amazed, 225X flat base from 338 win mag used in AK at distances to 801 yards, and up to 10 foot plus bears... and all between, down to sitkas and never ever seen a failure to expand. Including shooting through alder trees 3-6 inches in diameter on accident....(not all my shooting, I'm only good for 3 shots out of that gun up there...)
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I have used the TTSXs in 7mm, 270, 30 cal, and the 375 with uniform success at ranges from about thirty yards to right at five hundred. I have recovered only two.
The five hundred yard shot was with a 150-gr TTSX from a 284 Win started at 2900 fps. The deer was hit through the heart on a broadside shot without impacting any ribs. The exit would barely accept my little finger tip.
Though that is an example of one out of maybe twenty, I'll let you draw your own conclusions but I've gone to the 140 in the 284 at about 3100 fps.
I've learned that exit wounds mean very little when it comes to drawing conclusions about bullet expansion and internal tissue destruction. Often mono's will lose some of their petals, and all that exits is the solid bullet shank, which is why you sometimes see a small exit wound, even at high impact velocities. How was the wound cavity? Sorry Jordan that I didn't see his earlier. I usually am very interested in bullet performamce and almost always try to inspect the bullet path and resultant tissue damage but on that morning it was -25 degrees with a 20 mph breeze and I was underdressed. I'd did not dawdle but the big vessels above the heart were detached and there was a fifth-cent sized hole through the lungs which was probably not bad considering the velocity at that range. A very quick perusal revealed no bullet petals.
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Campfire Savant
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Shoot him in the shoulders. It doesn't matter if it opens or not. All the bone shrapnel is going to kill him before he hits the ground. You don't have to look for him, he can't run and fall in a giant cactus patch. He can't run down into the bottom of a canyon. I have never lost an animal I have hit in the shoulders. A 7 rem mag will go through a deer shoulders at 600 yds. Did the bullet open? Dont know. Couldnt find it. You always bone out the front shoulders to make hamburger anyway. Your just getting a little head start. I have been on a few south Texas guided hunts. The guides tell the clients to shoulder shoot. Just my opinion. He can't jump the fence either. Guys on my lease have had that happen 3 times. Same guy twice. You lose too much meat he said. Looks to me like he lost it all.
Last edited by hanco; 08/09/16.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I know I'm late to the party, and I've had some very good experiences with them. I've also seen beyond the 'glow' they seem to have for many. 120 TSX - 200 yard caribou, 7mm-08 235 TSX (#2)- 150 yard moose, 375-350 Rem Mag 100 XFB - 200 yards caribou x2, 7mm-08 225 XFB - 125 yards caribou, 340 Weatherby 85 XBT - 300-400 yards caribou, 6mm Most have zipped through, most have been effective quite quickly. But copper is always going to be hard. Sometimes it just doesn't open as well and penetrate as well as we hope. Which one is the TTSX? Different bullet so hard to make a meaningful comparison. Basically the same construction other than the tip; material is still the same: relatively hard copper. The TTSX is the one which most resembles a recovered Partition.
Last edited by Klikitarik; 08/09/16.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Campfire Regular
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Shoot him in the shoulders. It doesn't matter if it opens or not. All the bone shrapnel is going to kill him before he hits the ground. You don't have to look for him, he can't run and fall in a giant cactus patch. He can't run down into the bottom of a canyon. I have never lost an animal I have hit in the shoulders. A 7 rem mag will go through a deer shoulders at 600 yds. Did the bullet open? Dont know. Couldnt find it. You always bone out the front shoulders to make hamburger anyway. Your just getting a little head start. I have been on a few south Texas guided hunts. The guides tell the clients to shoulder shoot. Just my opinion. He can't jump the fence either. Guys on my lease have had that happen 3 times. Same guy twice. You lose too much meat he said. Looks to me like he lost it all. Exactly!
You did not "seen" anything, you "saw" it. A "creek" has water in it, a "crick" is what you get in your neck. Liberals with guns are nothing but hypocrites.
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So Mr Smith...
Am I correct to assume that because you have seen over 100 Barnes DRT kills (and I am not saying that you have not) someone else has not experienced substandard performance from them?
I on the other hand have never seen a Nosler hornady Scirocco and grand slam failure.
Either way like I said failures are not written in stone, and they do not happen often but when talking specifically about expansion I have seen only barnes, A few but only Barnes. I have to admit have had more than a few Nosler tipped bullets fail right inside the box......tips fallin' off...
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I've never seen a barnes not expand enough. Others have.
It doesnt take much and even on full expansion they don't leave big exit holes which is perfect for me, much less meat damage and still very dead.
I've seen teh old X, which folks hated, expand out just past 800...from a 338 win mag started at about 2700 or so IIRC.
IMHO there are better choices at longer ranges, but the barnes has never let me down either, somethign I can't say about other brands.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: May 2009
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2009
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I have and so have my some of my friends. Maybe not to this extend but I have seen it. I know I'm late to the party, and I've had some very good experiences with them. I've also seen beyond the 'glow' they seem to have for many. 120 TSX - 200 yard caribou, 7mm-08 235 TSX (#2)- 150 yard moose, 375-350 Rem Mag 100 XFB - 200 yards caribou x2, 7mm-08 225 XFB - 125 yards caribou, 340 Weatherby 85 XBT - 300-400 yards caribou, 6mm 225 XFB - 495 meters moose, 340 Weatherby Most have zipped through, most have been effective quite quickly. But copper is always going to be hard. Sometimes it just doesn't open as well and penetrate as well as we hope.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Any bullet works under certain conditions, and even the original Nosler Ballistic Tips worked well at 50 yards from high-speed rifles in big animals.....sometimes. In the same way, hard copper hollow points work well adequately at slow impacts.... sometimes. And, while it's 'working well' that we obviously want, it's the other kind of performance that is concerning and the disqualifier. I have recovered identical bullets from the same rifle at the same distance in the same animal and had two very different bullet results in essentially the same conditions. The Partition was one of the early methods which successfully resolved the problem of consistency. Hard, monolithic bullets have shared the same problems of inconsistency, if not the same failures when they do. The last photo I posted was the first part of a 'close/far' test I set up a few years ago. Unfortunately the 'far' part of the test was only partially successful, so I did not get the spectrum of comparative results I wanted. And I never got back to completing it.
The TTSX has worked the few times I've used it, but a few times doesn't really tell much. It does seem like a step in the right direction however and I expect the untipped versions will largely be phased out eventually in their favor.I would not be surprised if the TTSX is to the TSX as the Partition was to ordinary cup and cores.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Campfire Outfitter
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LR, TSX and Ttsx really I will say it slow their ain't no such thing. Their are no long range etips , GMX ttsx or TSX. A cup and core is the only LR bullet even close to useful at LR. Write this down and read it when the buck of a lifetime limps off because you can't think logically.
Last edited by fredIII; 08/12/16.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Ps LR starts past 800
Last edited by fredIII; 08/12/16.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Pure gold those last two posts are...
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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So then, should a guy who is not a dedicated long range hunter and has the ability, but would take a long range shot, have two loads for his hot rod magnum?
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
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Campfire Outfitter
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So then, should a guy who is not a dedicated long range hunter and has the ability, but would take a long range shot, have two loads for his hot rod magnum? Get off the fence shooting LR takes dedication. If you want to eat to the hole use a mono. If you want to shoot LR shoot LR.
Last edited by fredIII; 08/13/16.
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