Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Bear protection: 9mm, 40 S&W, 45 ACP?

Talk about a limited-visibility nightmare! Glad you didn't have to actually shoot the bear off a client, probably because you turned him first.

I've had a few friends who asked about calibers and game read your post on the 30-06. Hell, wait 'till they read this.

If anyone comes away still believing bullet diameter is a substitute for shooting skill, they just are not paying attention!

Phil...was wondering why at such a close range you didn't try a head shot? Was it because the bears head was too close to your clients? Or were you trying for the spine between the head and the shoulder?

Bob

Jeezus... he stopped the bear. Big bear. Moving. Attacking.

And we wonder why he didn't take out the left eye just under the eyelash line slightly off center to the tear duct side?

I"d be happy to hit the general vital area as many times as I could in an instance like that...

The time and degree of difficulty in a situation like that is why.

Due to the position of the bear and the clients the skull was not an option, but the neck/ highshoulder area was and after that the bear was rapidly spinning, twisting and biting and I simply tried to stick a bullet in every vital area as it became visible and there was not chance of hitting a person.

Thank you Phil...

That is what I thought as in your writings you have always advocated a CNS shot to immediately stop hostilities and I was wondering why you didn't try a head shot first....

If everything was exactly the same but the bear had cleared you clients, would you have had a good shot at the head or would you have taken the same neck shot hoping to hit the spine. Do you think that the ammo has enough penetration for a reliable side brain shot on a bear.

Thanks again...Bob

As I stated on one of these threads, I would have been fairly confident of stopping it if the bear was coming for me as I am certain that the ammo in my 9mm would have penetrated the brain from any angle. Otherwise I would not have been packing it.

Just shot a trial round of flat point full metal jacket at a 8'' block of wood fro 5 paces. Most rounds exited, guessing most bears would not repel said round without effect. Bears, consider yourself warned.

MM

+P

+1 for Phil

Awesome read and glad your trip ended well. I'm sure your clients will never top that trip for excitement.

I have been hiking and hunting in N. Idaho since the 23rd of August. After reading of Mr. Shoemaker's experience I acquired the BB 9mms for my Glock.

My weekly test drill is draw and fire 6 rounds into 6" at 7 yards in<than 3 seconds.

I now call it the Phil drill, thanks Phil


mike r

another way I like to practice/plink is by throwing wood blocks into the air and seeing how many times I can hit them before they hit the ground.
But when I was shooting at the bear I was using both hands and looking directly over the sights.

Phil -

Just curious. Did the lighter recoil of the 9mm help in putting more shots on target than if you had been carrying your usual (I for get what you said it was) handgun?

Also, do you think six with the 9mm was more effective than one or two with a .44 would have been??


Great shooting. I'll bet your clients are glad they chose you. More excitement than they bargained for, I sure, but they lived to tell it. With a different guide the outcome may have been very different.

I would not say that the 9mm is more effective than my 44 or 357 -- BUT I do know that HITS with any gun beat misses , no matter how powerful the gun and you have a greater chance of making those hits if you can fire 2 or 3 shots in the same time that it takes to make one with a gun with a lot more recoil.

I have killed, and seen killed, an awful lot of bears that had received solid hits with powerful rifles and were able to get up and continue on for quite some time so am doubtful that any handgun is capable of putting a bear down permanatly without a CNS hit. And that can be done with a 30 Tokarev, 9mm or 357.
I do know that every time I hit the bear it reacted violently by biting at the wound and after enough hits it finally gave up and ran 20 yards and died .

Everyone needs to remember however that I am referring only to handguns for protection from close range, aggressive bear encounters --- not hunting -- It is sort of like comparing CQB battle carbine with long range, more powerful battle or sniper rifles. For hunting I would consider my 44 S&W Mtn Gun a minimum and would much prefer something like my son's Hamilton Bowen 475 Linebaugh.

Phil - thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts and responses - it has been very helpful and informative.

I had an interesting conversation this week witb a couple of younger Yellowstone employees with respect to bears. They quoted statistics from some unknown source - "bear spray is 98% effective and guns are only 55% effective at stopping a grizzly charge". As a side note, one was from Ohio, the other western Kentucky. Doubt either was close to any type of bear except gummy bears which by the looks of things they were well acquainted.

Spending time around alot of black bears in the Smokys, I feel more secure with a handgun. Spending the week hiking and fishing in grizzly country, I would have felt more secure with any of my current revolvers loaded as I have them - heavy LBT style bullets. I was in streamside brush so thick I couldn't see 10 feet. Plus the wind was blowing significantly most afternoons - 20-30 mph. I really doubt you could have hit a bear with spray with the wind.

Phil:

I'm curious to know if you are doing any reassessment of rifles for protection from close range, aggressive bear encounters, in light of your recent work with handguns.

I carry a rifle to stop wounded bears and have used calibers from the 30-06 to the 505 Gibbs. they all work but bigger bores tend to put them down a little quicker and keep them down a tiny bit longer. but even with them the factor of recoil recovery comes into play. When I was charged by a big old boar when carrying the 505 I was aware of how much longer it seemed to be taking me to recover from the shot and get back on target.

Anyone who claims the 9mm is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.

You really should; Phil!

Having the same responsibility to my clients in Africa I concur with Phil that the bigger cartridges recoil plays a roll in this choice.

I had a custom made 458Lott, Loved everything about the rifle, and I could shoot it very well. However during PH testing with the requirements of the 10 second three shot test, I'm not sure how many folks could pass that test with a bigger cartridge then the 375HH. I witnessed plenty of guys fail it with the 300 mag!

It took me three tries with the 375HH although the first two attempts were "on the line" and did not count. The shots all had to have the holes completely within the 4" target box. They cannot break the line.

With the Lott, I tried dozens of times and could pass it only once, arguably the bigger problem is the size of the holes which often touch the line! Nevertheless, I shoot bigger then average cartridges a lot, and I cannot shoot anything bigger then the 375HH with the same speed and skills.

JJ..how far away is the target? As to the 10 seconds...is that from the "go" or the first shot?

Thanks...Bob