Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Alaska USPS shipping new rules on shipping rifles?

Any truth in this?

http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com...-lately-Getting-expensive-new-rules-USPS

Looks to be true. Of course if you're mailing to a dealer outside the state, they just recommend priority mail express. You can send however you want though. Unfortunately, if you're mailing from yourself to yourself, policy states you must use priority mail express or registered.

http://pe.usps.gov/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm

Here are the real net effects of this:

1. When trying to ship a rifle/shotgun to somebody in the same state, you will have to send priority mail express or registered

2. When trying to ship a rifle/shotgun to yourself in another state, you will have to send priority mail express or registered

Otherwise, a dealer would be involved anyway since you're talking interstate, so that has no change.

Yep, Priority Express or Registered, though it doesn't need to if going to FFL

[bleep]


http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm

Correct

My understanding is Registered mail is just an add-on service which can be added to 3 day Priority mail and not nearly as expensive as Priority Express. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I've recently been doing some shipping calculations since I'm selling some of my rifles.

That's not how I understand the regs when I read them. It states one can ship via either Priority Mail Express or Registered mail. I see no stipulation of ONLY Priority Mail Express.

432.3 Rifles and Shotguns

Except under 431.2, unloaded rifles and shotguns are mailable. Mailers must comply with the rules and regulations under 27 CFR, Part 478, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the rifle or shotgun is unloaded and not ineligible for mailing. The following conditions also apply:

Subject to state, territory, or district regulations, rifles and shotguns may be mailed without restriction when sent within the same state of mailing. These items must:

- Bear a “Return Service Requested” endorsement.
- Be sent by Priority Mail Express (“signature required” must be used at delivery) or Registered Mail.
- Include either insured mail service (for more than $200) requiring a signature at delivery or Signature Confirmation service.
- A shotgun or rifle owned by a non-FFL may be mailed outside the owner's state of residence by the owner to himself or herself, in care of another person in the other state where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. These mailpieces must:
- Be addressed to the owner.
- Include the “in the care of” endorsement immediately preceding the name of the applicable temporary custodian.
- Be opened by the rifle or shotgun owner only.
- Be mailed using services described in 432.3a.
- Mailing of rifles and shotguns between licensed FFL dealers, manufacturers, or importers are not restricted. USPS recommends these items be mailed using those services described in 432.3a.
- Rifles and shotguns may be mailed by a non-FFL owner domestically to a FFL dealer, manufacturer, or importer in any state. USPS recommends these items be mailed using those services described in 432.3a.
- Except as described in 432.2a, licensed curio and relic collectors may mail firearms meeting the definition of curios or relics under 27 CFR 478.11 domestically to licensed FFL curio and relic collectors in any state. USPS recommends these items be mailed using those services described in 432.3a.
- Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, state, or federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest may be accepted for mailing without restriction.
- Air guns that do not fall within the definition of firearms under 431.1a are mailable. A shipment containing an air gun with a muzzle velocity of 400 or more feet per second (fps) must include an Adult Signature service under DMM 503.9.0. Mailers must additionally comply with all applicable state and local regulations.

Yes, I left out the registered mail option.

I checked a price from here to Dallas, express was $75, priority registered was $66. Definitely a little cheaper, probably depends where you're shipping and what.

I just don't tell them what I'm shipping when I ship a rifle...

Yeah, mailing to or from AK bites. What I'm trying to figure out is the correct packing tape to use. That linked thread in the OP mentions some gummy tape. Looking through the postal regs, I found this:



But it might just be easier to go buy whatever tape they like at the post office.

You can just use regular packing tape as far as I can tell.

The only tape I've seen sold at the PO is the clearish brown packing tape. Don't see any specific requirement to use wet or gummy tape.

The last rifles I mailed were shipped in wood boxes, screwed together. The rules say they may inspect packages containing shotguns and rifles. I don't know how they'd know that unless they've changed what they can ask. Further, I intentionally use screws (or long construction staples) to prevent tampering. That really wouldn't make inspection very convenient. These rules sound like a good way to encourage the use of FFLs and encourage the tracking of law-abider's guns.

I wonder who is responsible for the new rules? Perhaps the Postmaster general? I wonder who appointed or oversees this dude? You know that this came down from on high somehow. It is no coincidence. Obama has made it clear that he was going to do stuff like this. I hope someone can track this back to the highest responsible person because you know the administration and congressional Democrats are going to try to shrug this off.



I have to say though, the USPS has been raising their rates faster recently than at any time I can remember. They have also stopped giving any kind of break for buying labels and postage online. I just looked at what it would cost to mail a rifle to the lower 48 - 10 pounds: $50 Priority, $85 Express; 20 pounds: $63 Priority, $126 Express. Neither of those rates is cheap by any means.

While there may be some intent to make it more lucrative to keep tabs on whose guns are going where, the track record for price viability also means that it will drive things 'underground'. My suspicions are that they will be tracking more and more stuff via scanners, perhaps using computers to identify suspicious packages for inspection.

Is Bricktop still around?

We could sure use him now...

When did this take affect?

Me neither and I've literally shipped hundreds.

I mail mine back and forth to myself all the time. It's pretty obvious what it is since I send a locked gun case. the only stipulation is I send it Express or Priority.

Since flights out to Aleutian Hell are a little less than reliable, I just send it Priority Insured.

Wouldn't it be better to use UPS, instead of the lame postal service?

UPS, AK.... not even close in pricing from what I recall... nothing I call reasonable compared to USPS

I've heard the USPS is much better about paying insurance claims for lost/damaged items than UPS. Not that I'd say the USPS is some kind of wonderful, but that alone is a substantial reason to use USPS. In my case, the post office is the only convenient option. Both the UPS and FEDEX hubs are far from conveniently located for me. And the USPS has improved their tracking whereas it used to be pretty useless.

UPS is an absolute PITA here and about the last shipper I will deal with. They spend all day delivering to businesses and expect residential folks to wait until the end of the day to get their packages and they will never give the slightest clue when the package will be delivered.

Once you miss them they do not follow directions given on their website and generally do everything possible to make things difficult. More often than not it involves picking the package up at their office rather than relying on their delivery "service."

I hate using them

Interesting I hunt some with a local UPS guy up there, he must be really different than what you get service wise.

And that sure could be expected, service in the end usually boils down to who is hired.

But I can't afford to ship through them up to AK for friends... USPS gets it all.

Unless its 5 buck shipping from Cabelas or I have no other option when ordering stuff. Gets there quick and delivered just fine

It also depends on locale. Until very recently UPS was a PITA here, because the local shipping center is a 70+ mile round trip from my house, and is only open for regular customers to ship stuff an hour a day, four days a week. There's a UPS store in the same town, but they won't take firearms.

Luckily, a local hardware store took over as a local drop-off not long ago, and they'll happily take firearms. But who knows how long that will last. I only use them when some company wants me to use UPS to ship test rifles back to them. Otherwise the local post office is far easier, because the only local Fedex drop-off is a box, and the main center is in the same town as UPS.

Always a different driver here... that certainly does not help, I'm sure.

This is just their 'summary' link:

http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/summary_of_changes.htm

but it shows the dates of changes. A link on the page also takes you to more comprehensive details re: the changes.

Yep, years ago when our small town was served by Hector only, he knew everyone etc... where they lived/worked and so on and got it done.

Now its split between 4-6 drivers( damn this growth stuff) and you just never know. I"ve been well fed up with them a few times here, and then other times a different driver goes above and beyond...

I decided against the USPS getting my shipping business with the last (of 7 total) broken rifles they stiffed me on.

I bought a beautiful Sako that arrived broken in the wrist. They made the seller and I jump through all the hoops, file all the paperwork on both ends, photos and auctions proving damage and value, then sat on it until their 60 day time limit expired, after which they just denied the claim.


If you like unnecessary bullsheit in your life, I highly recommend the USPS.

Those same kind of stories are told for UPS and Fedex too though Fireball2. I don't think there's an ironclad chance with any of the shippers.

Just got my bill to ship ram horns down to states from palmer Ak. UPS chaged $175 for 2 day.

So how much is it going to cost to ship a rifle now?? I also like to add insurance.

Damn, so that means I can't use gorilla duct tape? Shipping a barrel in a round container, with the ends duct taped, Monday. We'll find out...

USPS will also pick up a package at your house too... The others probably do it too, but that makes it that much more convenient..

Varies with package size/weight/distance shipped ==> USPS Postage Calculator


You don't have to ship Priority Express or Registered mail for just a barrel. I believe the gummed kraft reinforced tape is just required for Registered mail. Googling on that you'll see lots of comments about the tape for registered mail. Ironically, I can't find anywhere on the USPS site that specifically addresses any special tape for Registered mail, but all the comments I see online state that the USPS stamps it all around the seams taped over as a seal to indicate if the package is tampered with. I went to my post office and asked about it. At first they didn't know what I was talking about. Then they said, "Oh, yeah, we have that tape." But they don't keep it up front for sale and don't sell it.

Read the Amazon comments about registered mail for this tape: Duck Brand HD Reinforced Gummed Kraft Paper Tape, 2.75 Inches x 375 Feet (964913)

I bought this tape from Staples: Staples® Standard Grade Paper Packing Tape, 2.8" x 125 yards, Each (468231-CC) I got it for a cheaper price in store ... about $8.39/roll


You can't get any of them to pick up a rifle from you. For UPS or Fedex, you have to go to one of their main hubs/service centers to ship a rifle/shotgun, not one of those satellite UPS or Fedex stores. For me, the post office is much more convenient.

I have them pick up priority mail packages all the time. Rifles included.. NO problem whatsoever..

Right on above. I had to drive about 30 miles from Golden to Commerce City to send a rifle back to Alaska about 10 years ago, as they would not accept the rifle at the facility just a few blocks from my brother's house.

And speaking of USPS "service", it now takes a week ( voltage regulator for ATV) to 10 days (prescription) from Soldotna to Kotzebue if shipped flat rate priority mail.

The prescription tracking claimed it left ANC 4 days before it got here, an hour and a half flight time. Bull. Someone in ANC PO did not send it and marked it sent. It took repeated tracking requests from the pharmacy and the OTZ PO before it arrived the same day the second order, shipped "overnight" arrived just 2 days later after ordered. They go exactly the same. By truck to ANC in the afternoon then from that PO directly to Alaska Airlines who put it on the next available flight. There are 2 daily, one arriving at 7:30am and one at 6:30pm. Morning mail is in our boxes by 4pm the same day, evening mail by same time next day for first class and above. Some exceptions apply during Xmas rush. Might take a couple days for non-priority.

The first prescription of blood pressure med was shipped on Saturday, the second ordered and sent a week from the following Monday. Both were received on Wed following the Monday order

My regulator was ordered Friday and shipped out of Soldotna last Saturday. It came in today (Saturday)morning flight and was not in my box at 2:30pm, but was by 3:30. Someone in anchorage is screwing the pooch if it takes 5 "working" days to process a priority flat rate box and get it to the airport. And no, I very much doubt it is on AkAir.. Huge fines for that sort of stuff whereas no prob for Fed employees in the PO.

Over here in Minnysoda, a damned POS liberal state, the postmaster will throw you out if you bring in any kind of firearm.

I just got a quote of $143.00 to ship a rifle USPS priority express, while UPS was $71.49. This includes $2,000.00 worth of insurance and typical adult signature only and tracking etc.... I'm thinking UPS is getting my money today . Wish me luck that the rifle gets there in 1 piece!!!! I also have to clarify it's going to OK, not AK....

Just mailed a rifle today. No trouble standard Priority. Here is a cut and paste of the USPS regs. Color and bold is my edit

432.3 Rifles and Shotguns

Except under 431.2, unloaded rifles and shotguns are mailable. Mailers must comply with the rules and regulations under 27 CFR, Part 478, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the rifle or shotgun is unloaded and not ineligible for mailing. The following conditions also apply:

a.Subject to state, territory, or district regulations, rifles and shotguns may be mailed without restriction when sent within the same state of mailing. These items must:
b.Bear a “Return Service Requested” endorsement.
c.Be sent by Priority Mail Express (“signature required” must be used at delivery) or Registered Mail.
d.Include either insured mail service (for more than $200) requiring a signature at delivery or Signature Confirmation service.
e. A shotgun or rifle owned by a non-FFL may be mailed outside the owner's state of residence by the owner to himself or herself, in care of another person in the other state where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. These mailpieces must:
1.Be addressed to the owner.
2.Include the “in the care of” endorsement immediately preceding the name of the applicable temporary custodian.
3. Be opened by the rifle or shotgun owner only.
4. Be mailed using services described in 432.3a.
f. Mailing of rifles and shotguns between licensed FFL dealers, manufacturers, or importers are not restricted. USPS recommends these items be mailed using those services described in 432.3a.
g.Rifles and shotguns may be mailed by a non-FFL owner domestically to a FFL dealer, manufacturer, or importer in any state. USPS recommends these items be mailed using those services described in 432.3a.
h.Except as described in 432.2a, licensed curio and relic collectors may mail firearms meeting the definition of curios or relics under 27 CFR 478.11 domestically to licensed FFL curio and relic collectors in any state. USPS recommends these items be mailed using those services described in 432.3a.
i.Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, state, or federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest may be accepted for mailing without restriction.
j.Air guns that do not fall within the definition of firearms under 431.1a are mailable. A shipment containing an air gun with a muzzle velocity of 400 or more feet per second (fps) must include an Adult Signature service under DMM 503.9.0. Mailers must additionally comply with all applicable state and local regulations.



The section in red is the requirement of priority express or registered mail. It applies only to mailing within the state or mailing to yourself in another state.

In green applies to shipping to a ffl, manufacturer etc. It is recommended to mail the gun as described in the red text. But does not say it must be shipped in such manor.

So if your buying or selling out of state it is business as usual. Only in state or mailing to yourself is a expensive pain in the ass now with USPS.

All that is currently on their website which is what I went by when I mailed the rifle today. With some more diggin after seeing this topic I found my info was current as of 6/23/16. They have revised it as of 10/13/16. It has been simplified. Again cut and paste color is my edit


Publication 52 Revision: Change to Mailing Standards for Firearms

Effective October 13, 2016, the Postal Service™ is revising Publication 52, Hazardous, Restricted, and Perishable Mail, part 432, to correct an error published in the June 23, 2016, edition (22444) of the Postal Bulletin, and to provide uniformity with regard to the mailing options that can be used with firearms.

In the revisions announced in Postal Bulletin 22444, the Postal Service included a new requirement specifying that regulated firearms, mailed between Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) licensed dealers, manufacturers, and importers (FFLs), must be mailed by a product, or include an Extra Service, that provides for tracking and signature capture at delivery. Although the Postal Service strongly recommends that all regulated firearms be mailed using these services, it was not the intent of the Postal Service to place new requirements on commercial shipments between FFLs.

Publication 52, Hazardous, Restricted, and Perishable Mail

* * * * *

4 Restricted Matter

* * * * *

43 Firearms

* * * * *

432 Mailability

432.1 General

* * * * *

[Revise 432.1e. to read as follows:]

e. Except for shipments between licensed dealers, manufacturers, or importers, all regulated firearms must be mailed using a USPS product or Extra Service that provides tracking and signature capture at delivery.

* * * * *

432.3 Rifles and Shotguns

* * * * *

[Revise 432.3a.2 to read as follows:]

2. Be mailed using a class of mail, product, or Extra Service that provides tracking and signature capture at delivery.

* * * * *

[Revise 432.3b.4 to read as follows:]

4. Be mailed using a class of mail, product, or Extra Service that provides tracking and signature capture at delivery.

[Revise 432.3c. through 432.3e. to read as follows:]

c. Mailing of rifles and shotguns between licensed FFL dealers, manufacturers, or importers are not restricted. The Postal Service recommends that these items be mailed using a class of mail, product, or Extra Service that provides tracking and signature capture at delivery.

d. Rifles and shotguns may be mailed by a non-FFL owner domestically to a FFL dealer, manufacturer, or importer in any state. These items must be mailed using a class of mail, product, or Extra Service that provides tracking and signature capture at delivery.

e. Except as described in 432.2a, licensed curio and relic collectors may mail firearms meeting the definition of curios or relics under 27 CFR 478.11 domestically to licensed FFL curio and relic collectors in any state. These items must be mailed using a class of mail, product, or Extra Service that provides tracking and signature capture at delivery.

* * * * *

We will incorporate this revision into the next update of online Publication 52, which is available via Postal Explorer® at http://pe.usps.com.

Normal priority is a class of mail that provides tracking and adding signature required is a extra service is only a couple bucks. So again firearms and priority mail should be basically business as usual.Only thing the revision does not directly address is mailing to ones self.

I think you've got it right mike7mm08. However, I find the difference in cost between Priority Mail and Registered mail is not too significant once you account for insurance and signature required as added services, which are standard with Registered mail. No denying that Priority Express is just too expensive though. Registered Mail is, however, a good bit slower and seems to add about 3 extra business days to delivery.

Of course, the question that pops out to me is, why the special requirement by the USPS for a rifle mailed within the same state as opposed to interstate? Makes no sense to me. It would seem shipping a rifle is shipping a rifle regardless.

You must not have told UPS you were shipping a rifle.

For me it was the opposite case. UPS wanted ~$150. USPS shipped the rifle Priority Mail for $71.

The revision seems to get rid of the within state bs. As it now says "in any state". But only says if your mailing to a ffl or manufacturer. Does not address how to mail to a non ffl within state. It is legal at the fed level to mail a gun within your home state to a non ffl.

Easiest thing is still to pack it up print the priority label at home. Drop it off and be done. All have to tell them is there is nothing liquid hazardous or perishable.

As for registered mail the couple times I have used it they were absolute bastards about the packaging.

Good grief, they revised it again? I've sent four rifles via registered mail recently. Had no issues with them on the packing, but I had them well packaged and taped with gummy reinforced paper tape. Likewise, I didn't say it was a firearm and all they asked was the "anything liquid, hazardous, etc." question. Shipping via registered seems to add about three extra days though for what I've shipped. When I address the package, I abbreviate the FFL's company name if it in any way suggests firearms.

Guess I need to go read the revised version. Thanks for posting this.