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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I would not call them design flaws. Flaws would imply they did not function, IMO. I mean, yes, we have all seen broken shrouds and the occasional bent recoil lug or recoil lug indented into stock or what have you. I could almost consider the lug a flaw, I guess. But I would not run out the door for a hunt expecting one to ruin said hunt. It really truly is a half-assed design though IMO. Geared toward shaving cost, obviously.
The plastic magazines, stocks, and trigger guards work fine and are plenty tough. Just far over priced and somewhat unsightly.
The long action only does bother me. But it isn't a flaw. The bolt is 2 piece but still functions.
The enclosed receiver does bother me, as does rings and mounting options. But they are purposefully built also, and not flaws either IMO......
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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So now we're arguing semantics?
There's a plethora of scope mounting options..
One in a million lugs might have an issue....
Are Glocks overpriced?
I've seen far more broken parts and replacement parts installed on Remingtons...
At the end of the day... I'd rather have your "half-assed design" executed flawlessly.... than Remington's "excellent" design executed half-assed the way they have been for the past 20 years....
You better pray to the God of Skinny Punks that this wind doesn't pick up......
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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No we are not arguing semantics......
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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At the end of the day... I'd rather have your "half-assed design" executed flawlessly.... than Remington's "excellent" design executed half-assed the way they have been for the past 20 years.... Amen to that !
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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So now we're arguing semantics?
There's a plethora of scope mounting options..
One in a million lugs might have an issue....
Are Glocks overpriced?
I've seen far more broken parts and replacement parts installed on Remingtons...
At the end of the day... I'd rather have your "half-assed design" executed flawlessly.... than Remington's "excellent" design executed half-assed the way they have been for the past 20 years.... Do you stop at the traffic lights and pick a fight with everyone that doesn't like to drive the same car as you? And no you are not arguing semantics, you are arguing personal preference, because at the end of the day that is all it is.
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I've seen far more broken parts and replacement parts installed on Remingtons... I feel I have owned more 700s than most. And I have not had problems. I would say so if I did. One broken extractor, and a $hitty sticky gummy bear of a recoil pad are about it. The newer triggers now suck, thanks to DIYs who should never touch a trigger. I feel 700s are a bad comparison. I would take any part of a 700 over any part of a Tikka, except the trigger. Barrels being about equal. And far more replacement parts are available. But most are not needed, just wanted. When one rifle has millions in circulation, has outsold the other by a HUGE margin in the U.S., it would only go to reason that one would see more problems with the brand that sells way more rifles. But again, the 700 design is a very durable one overall. It is the number one choice of cops and military for a reason, It is the best selling bolt action for a reason. It is the most copied action by custom makers for a reason. It is the most built upon factory action for a reason. It is at best, a poor comparison for a Tikka. This isn't me being a fanboy. I own plenty of other brands. But everything in this paragraph is a fact, like it or not. I have not had any troubles getting a 700 to shoot well. Ever. But I haven't had trouble with a lot of brands. I am not sure why Glocks come up in regards to Tikka comparisons. Other than having a good amount of plastic, what else is there to compare?
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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True, most of the arguments on 24hcf are composed of "my opinion is better than your opinion." Seems like most responders here gave their opinion and then walked away. A few didn't and are arguing opinions. So here's a little secret of human nature. A man who is secure is his position will state it and walk away. The more insecure someone is about their position or beliefs the more vehemently they will argue to defend that position. Those in the middle of an argument will deny this to Kingdom come, but folks don't argue to convince the other person as much as they argue to try to convince themselves. He said, after stating his opinion and walking away... 
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery.
Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I just like talking guns Jim. Not trying to tell anyone what to use, or convince them that my opinion carries more weight, only that it is at least an educated opinion.
What bothers me about some rifles, others do not care about. And vice versa. That fact will never change.......
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Seems interesting to me that the T3X changes came as direct response from Tikka owners. Remington is still decades into sorting out their triggers.
A fella can walk out of the store with his ammo of choice and a Tikka and not worry if it's going to "like it". They are bullet whores. What a load of BS. The T3X came about because there were VAST amounts of room for improvement. Told everyone here that over 10+ years ago. Did same with Browning A-Bort. Guess what, they changed it also. What a shock. They call it evolution. LMAO. This whole statement wreaks of fanboy dribble. Remington triggers are fine. Not one custom gunsmith I have ever talked to had a problem installing an old school Rem trigger or has ever said a bad word about them. They just aren't idiot proof enough....... Oh boy.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I've seen far more broken parts and replacement parts installed on Remingtons... I feel I have owned more 700s than most. And I have not had problems. I would say so if I did. One broken extractor, and a $hitty sticky gummy bear of a recoil pad are about it. The newer triggers now suck, thanks to DIYs who should never touch a trigger. I feel 700s are a bad comparison. I would take any part of a 700 over any part of a Tikka, except the trigger. Barrels being about equal. And far more replacement parts are available. But most are not needed, just wanted. When one rifle has millions in circulation, has outsold the other by a HUGE margin in the U.S., it would only go to reason that one would see more problems with the brand that sells way more rifles. But again, the 700 design is a very durable one overall. It is the number one choice of cops and military for a reason, It is the best selling bolt action for a reason. It is the most copied action by custom makers for a reason. It is the most built upon factory action for a reason. It is at best, a poor comparison for a Tikka. This isn't me being a fanboy. I own plenty of other brands. But everything in this paragraph is a fact, like it or not. I have not had any troubles getting a 700 to shoot well. Ever. But I haven't had trouble with a lot of brands. I am not sure why Glocks come up in regards to Tikka comparisons. Other than having a good amount of plastic, what else is there to compare? You and I can agree to disagree about new Remington rifles as well...that is another I refuse to own. Absolutely no problems with 80's and earlier rifles though (apart from the earliest 17s, and the earliest 40x that were machined before heat treat). Damn I fit right in here...I am an opinionated old prick.
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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We all can only go by our experience. I have not had the problems with 700s that I read about here. Nor has one ever required special treatment or aftermarket parts to shoot well. I have 3 newer 700s that are pretty much factory. Every one shoots very well. The worst shooting one of the bunch shoots 3/4 moa. I know Tikkas shoot well also. But going over them part by part, I can't like them. I bet Berettas profit margin on them is really high 
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Broad strokes never paint a pretty picture. Individually, I'd say the best launching pad for a 7RM is a R700 and would gladly have a T3 in 6.5 Swede.
But that's just me....
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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As far as this Remington vs. Tikka thing, I trust European rifles more than American these days. I just do.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I know Tikkas shoot well also. But going over them part by part, I can't like them. I bet Berettas profit margin on them is really high The Tikka is a result of "design-for-manufacture" which compromises the optimal design to result in lower cost of manufacturing. The AK47 and to a lesser degree, the AR15 are other examples. The Tikka design does exactly what it was intended to do, so it is a very good design. No flaws. It just isn't what you would design if you were targeting optimum.
FÜCK Jeff_O!
MAGA
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Just for conversation's sake, how would it be designed if one was targeting optimum, and what would it cost?
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery.
Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,622
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Just for conversation's sake, how would it be designed if one was targeting optimum, and what would it cost? No injection molded stock. No dovetailed bolt handle. Not a fatbolt design. An integral recoil lug. Metal bottom metal and bolt shroud. Two or three action lengths. Metal magazines/floorplate that doesn't protrude. Nice to have a 3-position safety and a non-tubular (flat-bottomed) receiver too. I'm sure I am missing a few things, but I think that is a fair list. What would it cost? A M70 Extreme checks those boxes for about $300 more than a Tikka. Other rifles check less boxes, but have other features that make the compromise worthwhile, like the light weight of a Kimber Montana for about $300 more. Of course, a Dakota 76 at $3K or so is really close too.
FÜCK Jeff_O!
MAGA
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I know Tikkas shoot well also. But going over them part by part, I can't like them. I bet Berettas profit margin on them is really high The Tikka is a result of "design-for-manufacture" which compromises the optimal design to result in lower cost of manufacturing. The AK47 and to a lesser degree, the AR15 are other examples. The Tikka design does exactly what it was intended to do, so it is a very good design. No flaws. It just isn't what you would design if you were targeting optimum. I think that's an excellent way to put it. I really love my custom Mausers & my Kimber but the T3 may fill a niche in my cabinet... we shall see I've waited quite a while because of the "soulless" feel.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I prefer 2 position safeties that lock the bolt.
This is why I can't understand these threads. You all have the right to your preferences, as do I. End of 14 year old girl drama.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Glock vs. 1911 Part II
Optimum and same as it's always been look a lot alike. Every one of the "optimum" manufactures has done their best to copy T3's and are epic pieces of schit in comparison.
Dollar for dollar I don't think you can beat a Montana. But that's me. And gosh darn it, I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and I'm worth it.....
Always funny stuff when the 'fire is in the rut....
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