Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Is smokeless powder illegal in some states?

I believe I read somewhere a while back that some states do not allow muzzleloaders that use smokeless powder. Can anyone tell me if smokeless is OK to use during the muzzleloader season in:
Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Colorado, Utah, Arizona. Thanks.

You need to check the State F&W regulations for each season. Most or all will have the regs up on a website somewhere.

That stuff changes so much due to politics or whatever, you almost have to check the day before you leave on trip. Some states do NOT allow smokeless, while the rifle is still legal if using BP for propellant, and some states do not (or used too) allow BP substitutes. All states can be different from other states as to sight, projectiles, caliber, etc.

Not sure about the states you mentioned. I think most smokeless powder muzzleloaders will also function fine with black powder, so not sure if the "guns" would necessarily be illegal(?). I pulled the hunting regs out for WI and it states the ML's must use black powder or black powder substitutes. So I'm thinking a Savage ML using T7 would be just fine........................

If it was my call, smokeless would be illegal in every state for primitive weapons season. We're getting way too far away from the group of hunters and rifles that this season was designed around. If you want to go smokeless, buy a SUCKS and hunt in firearms season!

In the state of Colorado, the use of smokeless powder in muzzleloading season is illegal. Black powder and black powder substitutes are legal.

Gopher - Your response didn't answer my question but since you have such strong opinions -- I also hunt with flintlock, in-line, bow, shotgun and rifle. I also have trapped for 40 years. I know a thing or two about traditions and doing things "the hard way".

Thanks for your two cents but I personally have no problem with someone using smokeless powder. If I travel to a western state for a big game hunt, my flintlock will be home and an in-line will be with me. If scopes are legal it will bear one of those too and I'll also carry my rangefinder and most likely bring a GPS - Daniel Boone would be envious. Merry Christmas to you and your round balls.

It's not illegal in Iowa.

Illinois, Iowa, Kansas = YES.

Colorado, Utah, Arizona = NO.

Well golly gee Slammer, that's very observant of you! And by the way-me and my balls did have a very nice Christmas-thank you very much for your warm wishes!

Smokeless powder has always been 100% legal in Wisconsin.

It is considered a black powder substitute, which is precisely what it has been for the last 110 years.

Can't help but put my 2 cents in here. I have been hunting at least 55 years. With muzzleloading I started out with a flintlock then graduated to a caplock & when in-lines came out began using them. I am currently building a 54 cal. flinter. What I am bacically saying is use what ever you want that is legal & let others use what ever they want & stay out of their hunting style. We would all be much better off in the hunting community if we could just live & let live. Great holidays to all.

No, a black powder substitute is pyrodex or Trip Sev, or similar, which is intended for use in a muzzleloader. Smokeless powder is intended for use in a centerfire cartridge or shell. If you try and use smokeless powder in a muzzleloader you risk serious injury.

Regards, sse

Here we go again with the education process & knocking the way others choose to hunt. Ever heard of Savage muzzleloaders?

"It is considered a black powder substitute, which is precisely what it has been for the last 110 years."



Yes its a shame.

The Savage novelty is just that and in my mind doesn't qualify smokleless powder as a black powder substitute. Sorry, that's a stretch. Maybe you should have directed your response to Wakeman, not me.

Regards, sse

careful SSE or you will get a message about quoting wakman . Seems everything he prints even in open public forum, he feels is copywriter.
Im sure however you can straiten him out on that LOL
So I will quote you so as not to get called a liar and a thief again for quoting what he says on this or any other topic ..
oh incase you didnt i have saved a copy of this page , with his post <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


LMAO I can believe he said that . I�m however glade he did


Smokeless has never been an equivalent of black powder in any shape or form . This is why we have different proof markings to designate the powder capabilities of different weapons .
This is also one of the reasons early Damascus cartridge guns had such a problem with barrel failure
Smokeless is not an equivalent unless you want to state that equivalent is in pressures and then only if you pass laws classifying specific powder, charge and max loads for each
While its true that its also a propellant not an explosive such as black powder , the similarities between smokeless and Black powder equivalents stop there .

Maybe Wisconsin is different but most states have a written description within their full regulations that will describe what they feel is an equivalent and what they base that equivalent on .

Most times that equivalent is by measure not pressures as folks like walkman want others to believe .
You load a smokeless gun by the same process as you do equivalents, using the same devices as Black powder and I would bet you would have a tony bridges wall hanger very quickly .
Leave the smokeless powder where it belongs , in weapons designed specifically for smokeless powder be that a black powder cartridge weapon or muzzleloader

An equivalent LMAO ohm that�s rich.
i wonder how long it will take for that statment to spread across the WWW <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Define smokeless powder! Are we talking pyrodex or the equlivelant? Or true smokeless powder?

powders comonly used and avalable for the production of amunition for modern centerfire weapons
or
Any powder that is not of an equal base to black powder, when the based of measure is volume .

Powders which when based by Equivalent volume produce pressures equal to those of the same equal volume of black powder ,when based on measure of volume, using standard �accepted � Black powder Measuring devices .
.
In order for the powder to be an equivalent it must past the equal measure.

IE 50 grain volume of given power would produce near the same pressures as an equal volume of BP .
This is why the modern replacements such as pyro and T7 have squeezed through . While they don�t produce exactly the same pressures they are to some I guess close enough .

Now if you where to take 50 grains of say red dot , you would find the pressures no where near the same.

Doesn't anyone understand how shotguns work?
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />




The new thumbholes are looking great.

i think most everyone knows how shotguns work wakman , that doesn�t mean you load a 12 gage with 70 grains of even low base smokeless

Here is the result of low base smokeless powder in a weapon designed for BP .

mmmm i wonder if this guy thinks low base is a equivalent ? The fella stated it was safe , had shot low base for years in this weapon with no problem . Guess he finally had a problem .to bad too as before the guy had a brain freeze that fox was worth probably ohhh ? maybe 6 of your plywood ML10



Here is another one for ya


Wait ??? , did i say shotgun ???? LMAO oh and before you go into the bla bla about an obstruction or something you might want to learn alittle from the folks over at double gun journal. Some of the most respected an knowledgeable firearms folks world wide . who have been working with BP and use of low base smokeless in " shotguns way before you deposited your first sabot ,, <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Maybe your not familiar with them ? They are the ones who put out the very high end 1/4rly read each years on high end firearms MMMm . Ahh but you probably not interested as I don�t recall ever seeing savage in their writings ? I could be wrong though so you better take a look .
Oh I also forgot their information carries copy writes , but they unlike some stand behind their words and dont mind if you quote them .
DOUBLE GUN JOURNAL


nice stock but lines like that belong in the barrel not in the wood



did you guys remember to leave the lever so you could better open the breech with your thumb ?
LMAO maybe next time LOL

capchee - Not a flame, but equivalent and substitute are NOT the same thing.

The difference being you can substitute whiskey for tea, or vice/versa. But either one is sure not the equivalent of the other.

When it comes to employing either equivalent and/or substitute to something defining power as to pressure, it is even more important.

A substitute that is the equivalent of X amount of BP in power, may or may not be the same WEIGHT and/or VOLUME of X amount BP.

Again not a flame, we need to make sure those new to ML's, understand the difference so they remain safe.

Yep, there are probably always going to be some who don't follow safe practices. We probably can't help that kind at all.