Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Help choosing new rifle caliber - 308 or 6.5creedmore

With bonded bullets like an accubond say a .308 will toss a 180 accubond at 2700 fps with a BC .507.

The Creedmor tosses 140 accubonds with a BC of .509 at roughly 2700 fps as well.

Not sure I am seeing the Creedmor walking away from the .308. Out to 1000 yards they are basically identical for wind drift and drop which makes sense due to the bullets have nearly the same BC and going the same muzzle velocity. Only difference at 1000 yards of note is the 308 has roughly 650 fpe and the Creedmor has roughly 500 fpe.

So really only unless you use VLDs. Then the Creedmor does it start to make show a difference at longer range as you can shoot the 140 VLDs which have a .612 BC.

The Creedmor does seem to give you a 1/3 less recoil (23 ft/lbs for the .308 and 15 ft/lbs for the Creedmor with the loads above) in 6.5 pound rifles to get the same trajectory with quality hunting bullets. So unless I were to plan on running VLDs the .308 isn't giving up that much even long range to the Creedmor. Or atleast thats what I am telling myself to keep from having to buy one.

Like someone wise mentioned before they are more alike than they are different.

When you look at the success it's had in a field that crowded, it is amazing. And amazingly simple.

So true....at the end of the day either will work but whats the fun in that.

Aruging/learning on the internet is just entertainment we do when we can't be out actually killing animals

I think you need to re-look at the BCs of 140s. The Berger is .600 and you'd be hard-pressed to shoot a .600 bullet at similar velocities out of a .308.

I think you need to re-read my whole post and not cherry pick that one liner

Well, I did go back and read your whole post. Bergers aren't the only 140 grain 6.5 bullet with a BC of 140 or better. Just the most obvious example.

The simple fact is, the 6.5 has multiple bullets with a BC of .600 or better that you can shoot at 2700-ish, and the .308 does not. Not even vlds get you there in the .308.

So your whole post is kind of pointless, especially the premise:

"Not sure I am seeing the Creedmor walking away from the .308. Out to 1000 yards they are basically identical for wind drift and drop..."

What combination will do that in a .308? Those seem more like 30-06 numbers to me, but I don't own, load or shoot a .308.

Thanks,

David

OK like I said unless you shoot VLDs the Creedmor doesn't really have any advantage which was the whole point of the point but the English language is escaping you this morning I see.

Notice I didn't say BERGER anywhere in my post anyways. I was referring to all low drag bullets as VLDs and just gave the Berger 140 BC as an example.

No a 30-06 tosses 180s at 2850 and 2900 fps.

We're talking 1000 yards, right?

Why wouldn't you use the best bullet available in both chamberings for 1000 yards if you're shooting at that distance?

Well I don't think would be a great choice for taking deer at 1000 yards. No doubt people will do it, but the energy just doesn't seem to be there at 650 fpe with the VLD at 1000 which is the same as the 180 accubond at 1000 too. But I'm sure let 'er rip with either anyways.

Two things. First, 2700 in a 24" .308 with a 180 is very optimistic. Nosler only gets slightly over 2600 with their data, and 2730 for the Creedmor and 140s. So you've got that.

And then wind drift. At 1000 yards, you have to hit the animal before "energy" even comes into play.

I'll take the .600 BC over the .509 for hitting at 1000.

Just going with what I am getting using Alliants MR-2000 and their load data jives with that 2700 fps is easily done...might as well use the best powder available right?

Yes wind drift is better with the 6.5 creed. I mean you do need an extra 1/2 MOA correction at 500 yards. Like I said they are more alike than they are different.

Its just that folks make the Creedmor to be this great long range game changer but when I run the numbers it just isn't the much more impressive and isn't even hitting as hard all the way out to 1K.

Besides...if you are talking about using the best bullets out there:
https://cuttingedgebullets.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=MTH_308_180

Like I said both are great cartridges but all the Creed is really giving one is less recoil for similar trajectories and less energy (if that matters likely not).

1000 yards?


I was thinking normal ranges for shooting animals.

Seriously all those who have scored one shot kills at unwounded BG animals at 1000 yards please raise their hands?

Exactly. The difference between the two is even less the closer in you get from 1000

Right, and no doubt you could best the Nosler data for the Creed too, there are no new powders listed there either. But pressure tested load data is a good comparison of the potential of both cartridges.




I thought we were talking about 1000 yards, isn't that your original comparison? Big difference. But you knew that.

And that bullet you cited is a solid copper hollow point. I'm sure you've tried it in your .308 magazine with no COAL issues, and it's just as accurate as a vld, right? I've shot factory Creedmor 140s at long ranges and seen the results.

You're the one who made the 1000 yard comparison.

I know trying to give the Creedmor more of an advantage in ballistics as the closer in from 1000 the less of advantage (if any really) you'll end up with other than recoil.

Cause the difference at 500 yards is embarrassingly small.

I just ran the 165 gr AB in a 308 at 2850 fps,against a 130 AB for the 6.5 Creed at 2850.

I grabbed a quick eyeball average of velocities so the Creed may be a tad slow. But they were so much the same to 600 yards from a 200 yard zero,you couldn't shoot it.

I did not run any numbers for any of the High BC bullets but expect the Creed would rule there simply because a 308 does not have the case capacity to start a bullet with the BC of a 140-6.5 at the same velocity.

That was my only point, and it was on the 1000 yard comparison.

FWIW, at the distances I'd shoot big game, I don't really care what other people shoot or their rationales. For anything bigger than deer I'd go with the .308, especially compared to a .243.