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Looking for suggestions for a fairly mild load for my daughter to shoot in a model 7 .243. I'm thinking 3000 fps?
I have 4350, RL-15, and Big Game on hand, but can get pretty much anything locally.
Thanks in advance.
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41.5 IMR 4350 +/- has been a balanced load, and accurate, with 80, 90, and 100 grain bullets in the 243 I've been playing with.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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38.5 Varget produces excellent accuracy and probably 3300 FPS. 300 FPS difference will be very little in recoil, but can produce better accuracy sometimes than a reduced load. Plus slightly flatter and more energy.
That bullet is awesome on everything from turkeys to coyotes to deer. Never have recovered one bullet, and that includes a few double shoulder or quartering shots.
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41.5 grains H4350 with the 80 TTSX worked great for my son back when he was 10 or 11. He practiced with the reduced load H4895/70 NBT combo and then the TTSX combo was no big deal.
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45.0grs of RL19, works in all my 243, and I have alot 243s, everyone that tried it was really happy with it. They might pipe in and tell you there experience.
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39.5 grains imr 3031 for a avg velocity of 3282 fps. 215 primer and 2.24" oal. Maybe not a "light" load but with that 80 grain bullet there's hardly any recoil.
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- Greg
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Sorry that might be to ogive. I've got it written down as oal but I'm sure it's ogive because that's what I measure off of
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Anything on the .308 case rocks with RL--17...
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Campfire 'Bwana
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If ya wanna go domestic and old school.... work up to 42.5 grains of 4064....that will get you to 3400 fps neighborhoods, depending upon barrel length... In the 55 to 85 grain bullet arena, IMR 4064 is often over looked... due to being around for a couple 4 decades or more... and if your 243 won't shoot 4064... then that 243 has accuracy issues to begin with... and even at times, 4064 like SR 4759 will clean that up stretching the old barrel life out...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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41.5 grains H4350 with the 80 TTSX worked great for my son back when he was 10 or 11. He practiced with the reduced load H4895/70 NBT combo and then the TTSX combo was no big deal. Thanks for the feedback everyone. I've got her practicing with 10 gr of Trail Boss and a 70 gr NBT. Shoots 1 hole groups so it's great for her confidence. The gun is currently dialed in with 80 gr GMX Superperformance factory loads and my plan is to simply swap out for hunting and she will never know the difference. I was concerned those would be a little hot for her (both noise and recoil, though I barely feel it, but I'm not 8). Pretty sure I won't have time to work up a new load before our next hunt. Will the recoil between 3000 fps and 3400 really be much different?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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41.5 grains H4350 with the 80 TTSX worked great for my son back when he was 10 or 11. He practiced with the reduced load H4895/70 NBT combo and then the TTSX combo was no big deal. Thanks for the feedback everyone. I've got her practicing with 10 gr of Trail Boss and a 70 gr NBT. Shoots 1 hole groups so it's great for her confidence. The gun is currently dialed in with 80 gr GMX Superperformance factory loads and my plan is to simply swap out for hunting and she will never know the difference. I was concerned those would be a little hot for her (both noise and recoil, though I barely feel it, but I'm not 8). Pretty sure I won't have time to work up a new load before our next hunt. Will the recoil between 3000 fps and 3400 really be much different? nothing I think anyone would worry about or even notice... I sure wouldn't notice it in any of my 243 rifles..
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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The blast difference between 10 grains of Trail Boss and 40something grains of whatever Hornady stuffs in there might not go unnoticed.
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If ya wanna go domestic and old school.... work up to 42.5 grains of 4064....that will get you to 3400 fps neighborhoods, depending upon barrel length.... My nosler book and Hornady book both show a max between 38 and 39 grains with 80 gr cup and core bullets. Hornady online shows a max of 36 with a GMX. Barnes doesn't have data online for 4064. I'm not trying to get max velocity. I'd be happy at 3000-3200. Anybody else use 4064 and 80 gr ttsx? Edit to add: I found several old topics here using google and several of you guys were using 41 and 41.5 grains of 4064 with excellent results. I guess I'll work up to 38 or 39 and see what happens.
Last edited by country_20boy; 12/05/16.
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45.0grs of RL19, works in all my 243, and I have alot 243s, everyone that tried it was really happy with it. They might pipe in and tell you there experience. Add me to the happy list. Gemby58's load above gave me the results shown below. Montana Rifle Co. X2 @ 100 yds.
"An open message for all Democrats; "Look you are nothing and your work is worthless. Anyone who chooses you is detestable." Isaiah 41:24 (HCSB)
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Always 38.5 of Varget with the 80TTSX. Works in every gun so far.
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The gun is currently dialed in with 80 gr GMX Superperformance factory loads and my plan is to simply swap out for hunting and she will never know the difference. I was concerned those would be a little hot for her (both noise and recoil, though I barely feel it, but I'm not 8). Pretty sure I won't have time to work up a new load before our next hunt. Will the recoil between 3000 fps and 3400 really be much different?
Thanks for all the feedback guys. I will continue to work up a load next spring after season is over, but I think for now the factory Hornadys will work just fine. https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/11652760/Re:_Daughter's_first_deer_(my_#Post11652760
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48.7 grains of Superformance has given me 3430fps and consistent .5" groups at 100 yards. This is with a Tikka 22.4" barrel.
Certainly not a mild load but one I'm sure would be good for your daughter after she is comfortable shooting full power .243 loads. It sure makes me happy.
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If ya wanna go domestic and old school.... work up to 42.5 grains of 4064....that will get you to 3400 fps neighborhoods, depending upon barrel length.... My nosler book and Hornady book both show a max between 38 and 39 grains with 80 gr cup and core bullets. Hornady online shows a max of 36 with a GMX. Barnes doesn't have data online for 4064. I'm not trying to get max velocity. I'd be happy at 3000-3200. Anybody else use 4064 and 80 gr ttsx? Edit to add: I found several old topics here using google and several of you guys were using 41 and 41.5 grains of 4064 with excellent results. I guess I'll work up to 38 or 39 and see what happens. 42.5 grains is OLD load data, from the old IMR Brown Sheet.. I've used it for years and its been more than safe with 8 or 9 different 243s that have passed thru my hands over the last 20 or more years...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Bump this back to the top for additional questions.
I've tried RL-16, 4064, 4451 & IMR 4350 with various powder charges from mid to max according to the books I have. Virtually everything I've shot groups about 1 3/4" to 2 1/4" with the occasional 1" group that gets me excited then I can't repeat it next time out. So far nothing has really beat the Hornady Superformance 80 GMX factory loads that go about 1.5" and are screaming.
I really want to hand load the 80 TTSX, so I'm not giving up on them yet. Suggestions? I'm loading to 0.050" off the lands which is also only 0.004 longer than Barnes suggested OAL. Should I take the "best" load so far and play with the seating depth?
Also I know this is a factory model 7 with a cheap wood stock so I'm not expecting 1 hole accuracy but +/-1" repeatable would be nice.
Thoughts??
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[quote=country_20boy]Bump this back to the top for additional questions.
I've tried RL-16, 4064, 4451 & IMR 4350 with various powder charges from mid to max according to the books I have. Virtually everything I've shot groups about 1 3/4" to 2 1/4" with the occasional 1" group that gets me excited then I can't repeat it next time out. So far nothing has really beat the Hornady Superformance 80 GMX factory loads that go about 1.5" and are screaming.
I really want to hand load the 80 TTSX, so I'm not giving up on them yet. Suggestions? I'm loading to 0.050" off the lands which is also only 0.004 longer than Barnes suggested OAL. Should I take the "best" load so far and play with the seating depth?
Also I know this is a factory model 7 with a cheap wood stock so I'm not expecting 1 hole accuracy but +/-1" repeatable would be nice.
Thoughts?? [/quote) I used 41.0grs. of RL17 with a Federal 210M primer seating the 80gr. TTSX 2.620" OAL and get 0.300" 3-shot group at 100yds. I chronographed it at 3045 fps. Haven't shot any animals with it yet. Hopefully has enough velocity to open up.
Last edited by 700xcr; 04/20/17.
Nothing like a Remington 700xcr.
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You might want to play with seating depth.
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I'll grab some varget next time I'm out. I loaded some rounds up with imr 4831 today that I found in my brother's reloading box. I also loaded some with rl16 about 0.015 shorter than previously. Maybe I can shoot them Sunday afternoon.
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FWIW, a slightly faster powder may reduce some blast in the shorter M7 bbl, if that's an issue.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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FWIW, a slightly faster powder may reduce some blast in the shorter M7 bbl, if that's an issue. Re Reading the thread, I was thinking the same thing...but I know it will reduce the muzzle blast... powders that are readily available....Either of the 4198s, RL 7, H 322 and AA 2015.... try 25 to 30 grains of any one of those... If you are hunting 30/30 ranges, you can drop either 4198 down to 20 grains and they will duplicate a 30/30 for MV...same with RL 7. I've spent a lot of time developing loads for kids to shoot over the last 10 to 12 years... where I deer hunt it is 30/30 ranges, so I use these loads myself...with an appropriate bullet they will work all day long on a deer.. regardless of size...your 80 grain Barnes falls into that realm...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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How about a reduced load of H4895?
There are 2 rules to success:
1. Never tell everything that you know.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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How about a reduced load of H4895? Cliff, problems with H4895 reduced loads are: 1. More muzzle blast ( for some reason)....it intimidates young shooters and a lot of women shooters.. IMR 4895 is a better choice.. 2. Accuracy and consistency... in my experiences, its accuracy is not consistent... you might find a charge that is a real tack driver... and then move that up or down a few tenths of a grain and your groups start opening up... the powders mentioned in my post above, I prefer those powders as they don't have either one of the above two problems... H4895 works, but there are better choices....
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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John, thanks for this info. I was attempting to offer an alternative for consideration but since I've not used either one in reduced loads, I'm unable to comment on them and will yield to your experience.
I did read (here on the fire, I believe) A comment that Hodgdon technicians have recommended to NOT use IMR 4895 due to inconsistencies but recommended staying with H4895. For some reason, I think John Barsness posted that information. I'll go try to find it.
Thanks again.
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Cliff,
As mentioned by Hodgdon, recommending NOT to substitute IMR's 4895 for Hodgdon's...
I deduce a simple explanation for that one...
a little speculation on my part here, but an educated guess isn't that hard to figure out...
ADI GAVE Hodgdon the data and load testing, using what is labeled H 4895 here in the USA... Hodgdon didn't do anything on their own... its not their data... its ADI...
NO ONE official has done the same work with IMRs 4895... so they don't have any official sanctioned and verified data...
But they DO have a legal dept... and to avoid any potential Law suits, suing them... they simply say that they don't recommend it...
A lot of the reduced load world, such as in cast bullet manuals, isn't sanctioned by the Powder Manufacturers...
its all about avoiding law suits, from idiots who screw up and then blame the powder manufacturers, and get themselves some ambulance chasing type lawyer... the "Better Call Saul" types.
cast bullet loading and reduced velocity loading, is for people who can use their brains... ( which isn't everybody).. factory load data is for those who can't think and only know how to follow someone else's instructions...
but each handloader needs to evaluate their skill level and experiences and follow their conscience...
its a good thing, for those who really don't know what they are doing, to stay away from trying to do their own work.. and rely on factory info only...
however if someone does want a reduced load, for less recoil...I can tell ya, if they disassemble a Factory "reduced load" such as Remington Managed Recoil rounds, they will find the powder used, is IMR 4198... but it seems factories don't want the public to know that, or create their own loads, as it will cut into that profitable little product nitch...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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FWIW, a slightly faster powder may reduce some blast in the shorter M7 bbl, if that's an issue. Re Reading the thread, I was thinking the same thing...but I know it will reduce the muzzle blast... powders that are readily available....Either of the 4198s, RL 7, H 322 and AA 2015.... try 25 to 30 grains of any one of those... If you are hunting 30/30 ranges, you can drop either 4198 down to 20 grains and they will duplicate a 30/30 for MV...same with RL 7. I've spent a lot of time developing loads for kids to shoot over the last 10 to 12 years... where I deer hunt it is 30/30 ranges, so I use these loads myself...with an appropriate bullet they will work all day long on a deer.. regardless of size...your 80 grain Barnes falls into that realm... Thanks for the info Seafire. I am already loading some greatly reduced loads with Trailboss and 75gr NBT (thanks to you and others) for practice with my daughter. When I first made this thread, I was looking for a mild ttsx load for hunting, but about a week after I posted, she decided she was ready to try for her first deer and I hadn't made time to work up a load as I really thought she wanted to wait another year. So, I just loaded up the factory Hornady GMX ammo that I had used previously with the gun and hoped she could handle it. On our 4th hunt, she killed a 19 3/4" wide 10 point at 80 yards and never even thought about the recoil!! So after that, my goals changed a little and I decided I may as well go with full speed loads, as I firmly believe that the ttsx or gmx work best running hot. So I'm more focused now on getting something to group decent with the 80 gr ttsx and run 3200-3300ish.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Glad to hear the good news...and congrats on the young lady...that sounds like an awful nice deer for her first one..
if you want max velocity for an 80 grain bullet, the old IMR data for 4064, was 42.5 grains, for an MV in the 3350 fps range...
its a load that has been around for decades...
with the Barnes, work up of course as they seem to have different standards to apply than other cup and core bullets do....
but that powder has always been accurate for me...along with strong velocity potential.. even on barrels that are starting to wear a little...
IMR 4895 is never a wrong answer either... it'll get you to that 3300 fps range with an 80 grain bullet also...
best of luck to you and your daughter...
and congrats to a proud dad also...on setting the little lady up for that fine sounding deer...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/11652760/Re:_Daughter's_first_deer_(my_#Post11652760 Since you begged for it, I am forced to post her deer again! I'm just a little bit proud of her. It seems that there are a number of powders that will provide the velocity, I just need to find the right combination. The 4064 loads I tried were decent (1.75" at 42 grains), but not quite what I wanted. I'm going to try same with a slightly more jump and see where it goes. There are so many combinations and so little time to shoot......!!
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It has been my experience with Barnes bullets that the best accuracy comes when pushing them to near max velocity. I've experienced this in several different rifles and calibers.
With that being said, a few years ago I worked up an accurate load using the 80 gr TTSX using 46.8 gr Ramshot Hunter for ~3415 fps. Since then, the multiple deer, antelope, hogs and coyotes haven't complained once.
Good luck!
Goofy aka graybird on other forums
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I’m going to try the Varget, need to load some for grandson to try.
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I’m going to try the Varget, need to load some for grandson to try. If you have access to the 85gr TTSX, my go-to load is' 41.5gr H-4831SC CCI BR-2 COAL - 2.650. Routinely puts five shots into .750-.800" @ 100yds. I have not chrono'ed it. This is out of my .243 RAR Predator. Ed
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I saw this thread this morning and clicked on it before realizing that it was started by me over 2 years ago. LOL!!!
So as an update, I ended up with a great load of RL-15 pushing the 80 gr TTSX at +/-3,180 fps and it shoots 3/4" or better if I do my part. My daughter has now killed 5 deer with this load and every one has run less than 40 yards and had good blood trails. The latest victim was a 185 lb 9 point that she dropped in it's tracks on Sat morning at about 70 yards. I have highly recommended these bullets to everyone that will listen, especially for a youth. The recoil is very low, even for a .243 and they kill way above their weight class, always exiting on broadside shots and providing blood trails.
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I think I will try the R-15. Sounds like it might be the ticket!
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I think I will try the R-15. Sounds like it might be the ticket! RL-17 works better
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