Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa 416 Rigby vs 375 H&H

It's nice to reread an old thread! I sure do miss Allen Day!

Ya, here we are, nine years later. Cool.

Guy

Someone should resurrect Allen's posts and put a "sticky" on it.

postoak,

Yes, I did the "warm weather" experiments with .416 Remington factory ammo.

Through a reader, I obtained a box of ammo from the early 1990's (the cartridge was announced in 1988, loaded with 400-grain Swift A-Frames. I waited for a 95-degree day in August, about as hot as it gets in this part of Montana. After shooting some of the ammo at 95 degrees, I "green-housed" three rounds in a clear Ziplock bag with a small thermometer, placing the bag on the bench in the open sun until the thermometer read 110 degrees. There was no discernible difference in velocity, and the average chronographed muzzle velocity 15 feet from the muzzle was 2459 fps.

There also weren't any signs of excessive pressure. The rifle was a Model 70 Classic with a 23" Lilja stainless barrel, and the bolt opened easily after each shot.

A couple months later I obtained a box of new Remington factory ammo, also with the 400-grain A-Frame, and shot it on a 50-degree day, typical of what might be expected in Africa on a cool morning during a buffalo hunt. I had some ammo left from the "old" box as well, so shot both for a comparison. The new ammo averaged 2392 fps and the old 2450 fps, so Remington may (or may not) have reduced the pressure a little from the early days of the round. Statistically 58 fps isn't that big a difference.

But the main point was that there wasn't any trouble encountered with the old ammo in hot weather. Now, it wasn't first-year production ammo, and my rifle may have had a somewhat smoother chamber than a typical factory rifle. But that's what happened.

Thanks for responding JB, good info.

For the sport hunter the extreme temperatures aren't a factor as we do most of our hunting in Africa when the temps are very moderate. On my three trips, temps varied from 50 degrees fahrenheit up to about 85 degrees. That's why if I ever get a .416 it will be the Remington variety instead of the Rigby.

I thought .416Rem pressure issue was a myth that came about due to Remington 700 Safaris
breaking weak extractors, but mistakenly blaming the cartridge. - Model 700 Safaris in .375H&H
have also suffered the same broken extractor problem.

I was asked to make the tests by the editor of a major magazine, while doing an article on the effect of heat and cold on rifle ammunition. So I did, partly because he thought we should try some early factory ammo, because of all the stories about "hot" lots.

Some very early ammo may have been pretty warm. The sample I tried wasn't first-year production, and still resulted in higher muzzle velocity than more recent ammo. It was also well above the factory listed 2400 fps from a 24" barrel, despite my test rifle's 23" barrel.

As I recall, part of the "problem" with broken extractors on .416 700's was traced to poor rifle maintenance, resulting in dirty and/or pitted chambers, and bolt-faces loaded with brass particles. A long-time gunsmith I know has also found this to be a problem with 700's: The vast majority of the broken extractors he's replaced have been on rifles that haven't been cared for very well.

Ross Seyfried used a 700 in .416 Remington Magnum for several years when working as a PH in Africa. He had no problems, but did maintain his rifle carefully.

Mule Deer:

Do your test notes reflect what the SD and ES was for the .416 Remington loads you tested?

Was their any evidence that the compressed charges attempted to "push" the bullets forward from where they were originally seated in the case?

Was there any evidence of powder clumping in the manner of early .458 Win loads?

Just curious.

Thanks.

WinM70,

The extreme spread for 10 rounds of the older was 33 fps, considerably less than the newer ammo's 58 fps.

I broke down one round of the older ammo, and while it was loaded with a spherical powder there wasn't any apparent compression, much less any sign of clumping. Apparently they learned a lesson from the .458 Winchester.

Interesting.

Thanks.