Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Swift bullets - anyone use them?

Educate me on the A-Frame and Scirocco please. I'm interested in trying them on elk in my 30-06 (2800-2850 ft/sec max vel). I know the Scirocco is a bonded bullet with what looks like a tapered jacket, thicker towards the bottom - an Accubond by another name. The A-Frame looks like a lower BC, bonded Partition. I've seen pics of both bullets taken from game. They look to retain a bit more weight than Partitions and have heard they tend to get caught in the far side hide. I really like 2 holes but I'm curious what you all have found.

I'm also curious how they shot. Easy to get a good powder-bullet recipe?

Thanks.

I have used the 225 A-Frames in two .338 Win Mags and a .338-06. I used them to kill several elk. All were one-shot kills and no bullets were recovered. I have used the 180 Sciroccos in a couple of .300 mags, a Wby and a WSM. Only took one elk with them, but it was also a one-shot pass-through.

I have pretty much gone back to Partitions or AccuBonds as they are cheaper and perform just as well for me. In addition, I did have to tinker more with the Swifts to nail down loads that shot acceptably in my rifles.

I'll second pretty much what mudhen said. I've used A-frames in my .338, .375, and .416. They hold together and retain more weight than just about any bonded bullet. Because they expand so much, they do not usually make it all the way through the animal, so if you want an entrance and exit wound, the A-frames probably aren't the way to go. I've never had an issue with finding an accurate load with A-frames. The Scirocos are temperamental in my limited experience with them.

As mudhen said, the Accubonds and Partitions are similar in performance and are cheaper, so I use those a lot more than the Swifts. However, I have great respect for and faith in the A-frames and usually use them on high dollar hunts. I've mostly used them in Africa after Cape Buffalo and in Alaska after Brown Bear.

I'm sure you've seen this from friends 7 Rem Mag into a bull elk at 460 yards this year.150 7mm SS II started at 2970 fps.

Retained weight was over 80% IIRC and the elk was pretty much knocked flat.

He used another on a cow elk at 150 yards that exited on a long angling shot through the body.

I've shot the 7mm 150 in a few 7 RM's and the bullets have shot well for me.

I have some270-130 SAF,and 250 gr 375's that I have shot to 400 yards and they are easy bullets to get to shoot.

I have not hunted SAF since I bought them as backups to Bitterroots but looks like I have more than enough BBC's so never got around to hunting the Aframes. But I would not hesitate to use them.

I have carried the 150-7mm's on hunts to Canada but for some reason the animals did not cooperate so all I shot with them were coyotes. I think if I were to drift off Partitions I would probably grab the SAF or SS II for my hunting.

I love Swift A-frames. Perfect performance and easy to get them to shoot.

Seems like experience on here and google-fu indicate the Scirocco can be a bit tough to get shooting; not many issues with A-Frames getting to shoot.

I'm a Nosler guy but have a couple of guns that struggle to keep them inside 1.25" which is game capable. But - I also had some issues recently with Nosler QA/QC. The latest box of 30 cal, 180 Part varied from 1.248 to 1.272 in length which resulted in COAL of 3.325 to 3.335 to the lands and grooves. I seat them 0.020 off. I had some jammed into the L&G. Produced some nice velocity - and pressure signs and 3" 'groups'. I didn't discover the issue until I was into my second box of the same lot. I called Nosler, explained the issue, and sent them back. I also had a 0.277, 150 this summer without any lead in the tip. I threw it in the box as well. Nosler sent me a new box of 180's and 10, 0.277, 150. No note, explanation, nothing. Heck I got back less 180 grain bullets than I sent them........

I interpret that customer service as: "Try Swift bullets!" So I am.

I've never had any problems with Scirocco bullets in several calibers, though I ain't shot an elk with one.

I had problems getting the 130 gr 270 SS II to shoot a few years back but last year tried them in a 9 twist Brux, and more recently a 10 twist Krieger and they shot fine.

I've shot quite a few 7mm 150 S II in both the 7 Rem Mag and 7mm Dakota; for me they have shot well out to 600 yards.

There seems to be quite a difference between the older SS and newer ones in terms of expansion. I think the new ones behave pretty tough.

I used a 160 A-frame in a 7x57 to kill a mature bull nilgai and another to kill a cow nilgai. Perfect performance from both.

Here is what the bullet weighed out that Bob showed earlier.





Here are the two bullets from the cow elk Bob mentioned.





They are danged good hunting bullets and I treat them as a mono and start them about .050" off and work back from there. These one shot very well at 500 yards and we're about .130 off in our buddies 7mm Rem Mag.

I know I'll be using more. Can't tell much difference between the 475 yard bullet from the 175 yard recovery. They wreck stuff really nicely.

Good info - thanks.

375 H&H, 300gr Aframes L-R
Zebra-125 yards
Eland 175 yards
Wildebeest 65 yards
(last one is a 180gr Interlock, impala at 80 yards, 300 Weatherby)



Also used 400gr Aframes on Cape Buffalo. Perfect expansion and 98% weight retention.

Great bullets

I have used Sciroccos in my Ruger RSI in 7x57(150 grains) to kill a cow elk. The bullet performed flawlessly at 7x57 velocities and the elk ran 50 yards, blowing blood from her nose and then piled up. I have killed several deer with my 7mm mag and all have virtually DRT using Sciroccos. I used Swift A-Frames in my 8mm Remington mag in both Namibia and RSA. I recovered three bullets from two different animals and the bullet performance was flawless. Gems buck and eland will test a bullet's merit. The A-Frames shoot well out of my Remigton 700 Classic in 8mm Magnum and even better out of my 7mm, both Mauser and Remington Mag. If your rifle will shoot them, you cannot go wrong. Porasche73

I've used 180 grain Swift A-frames in 30-06 for the last 15 years or so and shot animals from small blacktail bucks through elk and moose with them. They have the most consistent terminal performance of any game bullet I've ever tried, with deep penetration and large wound channels at ranges from 10 feet to 250 yards. We have not recovered many, only those shot corner to corner on large elk. In my rifle they shoot tighter groups the faster they go, down to ½ MOA at max velocity. I settled for a sub MOA hunting load 1 ½ grains below max. Seating depth seemed to effect accuracy a lot with A-frames.

In my rifle they shoot one inch higher at 100 yards than 165 grain Hornady Interbonds.

I have heard PH's say that is one bullet you could use for both Cats and Buffalo so I take that as a pretty good endorsement.

They are simply awesome on most species of game. There are better options for some species though.

The TSX or TTSX is a better all around bullet, but has it's shortcomings on some species as well.

The TTSX will be slightly more accurate from most rifles, and survive being loaded and unloaded from the rifle far better. The Swifts tips deform and get gouged at times through this process. If your not one of those folks that needs to load and unload frequently then this in probably not important to you.

In my line of work, we load and unload ammo from guns many times a day. The big difference in Performance between the two is the reaction to animals when shot. The TSX/TTSX shows minimal impact on game, but will exit the vast majority of time leaving a nice exit hole and the bore ( or slightly bigger) diameter entry hole.

The Swift Aframe, will often stagger or crumple whatever it hits of reasonable size. There is often no doubt that the shot was a hit with the Aframe. However, the exits are much less frequent, Maybe 30% exit and I may be optimistic on that number. This means only an entry hole for blood tracking.

I have shot many dozens of animals with the Aframe in my life including some of the big five. Never lost anything with them. I have seen well in excess of 100 (maybe double that)animals shot with them by my hunters. In these cases we have lost game for lack of blood in combination with poor shot placement.

Would a TSX have worked? Nobody could say for certain, however If I had to provide an opinion, I would say the percentage goes up with the exit hole by a significant margin. It also goes up with deeper penetration and more tissue damage.

On fragile thin skinned game with the AFrame from a very high velocity rifle the stunning impacts I have seen with this combination are priceless. Many times game is just knocked silly and flattened. This is not something you often see (may never see) with the TSX/TTSX design. On bigger animals like Moose, Bison, Cape Buffalo, White Rhino, Eland, even a big bull elk or Roan, they absorb that Aframe impact much better and then run for some distance. If they are gonna run off without the strong visual impact, might as well have an exit hole too!

Herd animals have a far greater likelihood of running off with the group and staying on their feet far longer then they should. Single animals not in a rutting mindset generally lay/fall down after impact with a shorter run.

This is a problem for bullet choice too. It might be determined that herd animals are better shot with a Swift AFrame because the exits are far less frequent. Nobody wants to hit a second animal with the exiting bullet. However these are the tough animals to locate after the shot making you logically want to use the TSX/TTSX for better blood tracking.

No perfect bullet choice or a one bullet for everything. I've chosen to settle for the TSX because is solves the any angle, any size animal issue. Your species list may be less diverse, or you may choose to use another rifle and bullet entirely for different species.

Swift factory loads are now available. Loaded at their Kansas City plant. Picked up a box of 160gr A frames for my 7mm mag. Used to shoot their factory loads back in the late 90's. Awesome stuff. Glad to see them back at it. They have rifle, lever action and handgun ammo out now with more to come.

JJ - I've seen your discussion on various bullets throughout my time here on the Fire. I always appreciate your view point.

I may have to break down and try the TTSX. I did not have good luck with the TSX in 25 and 28 cals when they first came out. I swore them off at that point. A 168 TTSX in the 06 is likely perfect medicine for elk in the 06. I recall you being very high on the 168. I sure could have used 2 holes on my Colorado elk this year.

My experience with them personally is 100% from load work-ups for customers (all good) and all my experience with them on game is from observation. I have never killed an animal with one myself, but I have seen about 16-20 animals killed with them by friend and clients.


On American game I can say they get no complaints, but seem to leave a bit smaller hole than a Nosler partition of the same weight. That is not a surprise. The A frames are "Partition Bullets" too, but the partition is farther forward on them than most Noslers, and the front core is bonded. So they hold more of their weight when they hit. In all the cases I have seen I can't tell you about retained weight because 100% have left an exit wound.


However, to be fair, the Noslers I use do the same thing. 100% penetration until the 2016 season when I did recover a Nosler 160 Grain from an elk I killed at about 400 yards. The shot was from the area in front of the hip in the "hollow" and the bullet was found under the skin on the other side, in the center of the neck. It lost 31 grains. It went nearly full length of the elk. This was a 2nd shot to put the elk down after the 1st one hit it in the liver and didn't drop it.

I believer the Swifts were designed for large African game in the 1st place, and smaller calibers offered later, for the much larger market of N. American game.(just my guess)


They are excellent bullet in both performance and accuracy, but they price themselves out of the market of most hunters. They are excellent, but in the real world, where facts are more important than theory, I would not say they are any more accurate or more effective than Barnes X or Nosler Partitions. But they do cost more. I think that's the biggest reason they are not more popular.

In 48 years of hunting, not just as a hunter myself, but also as a guide, I have seen about 4 Noslers partitions recovered that stayed in the body of the game shot, and only one of these was shot by me. (the elk I wrote about above)

So far I have seen 0 Swifts recovered, but I also have to say I have been watching the use of the Swifts for only about 12 years, and no where near as many animals have I seen shot with Swifts as with most other bullets. So for a meaningful comparison I would have to see them used for another 36 years before an honest appraisal could be given.

I am 100% satisfied with Nosler Partitions for most applications, and I do use other bullets to have real-world knowledge of their performance, but so far I can't see a reason to pay what Swift is asking. That's just me however. Others disagree.

I am the former CEO of Cast Performance Bullet co. When I was running the company we offered a line of VERY good bullets and we did so at a very good affordable price. When I left the new management doubled the price, and the growth of the company slowed extremely. It grew some, but not near as fast as it was growing when the price encouraged people to try them.
When it changed hands again the price was again doubled and that basically killed any chance of becoming the leading company in handgun bullets in the USA.

My "business model" was to sell to 95% of the market and only make 20% profit instead of making 200% profit and sell to 2% of the market.

If I could give any advice to Swift it would be to lower their price to a point that common (deer hunting) people would try them. In their case that would mean coming down a lot. But other than price I can't say a bad thing about them. Practically speaking, for hunting in the USA they are the equal of the Barnes X and the Nosler Partitions. Keep in mind the mission statement is to make a large hole clear through the animal no matter what it hits, and go through in a relatively straight line.

Both Branes and Swift will come to rest in the dirt weighing more than the Nosler, but if you get good performance and a good hole, without "blow up" of 60% of more of the bullet weight, we have to address the Mission Statement above.

It's the bullet hole that kills, not the bullet itself. If both make the same size hole and both go clear through, the fact that one retained 75% of it's weight and one retained 85% of its weight is no no importance. If the heavier bullet was to hit a larger animal it will go deeper. THAT matters. But on animals of 1600 pound and less it is just banter for campfire discussions, not something important.

As of now, Swift gives nothing to the shooter that Barnes is not giving, and if you are not hunting game of 1600 pounds or larger, the Nosler Partition is as good or maybe a slight bit better than either. It depends on the animal and the caliber and range. There are too many variable to list here.

A super tough bullet is good, but not AS good as one that opens up a bit easier on deer and elk. We don't have many Hippo or Cape Buffalo in the Rocky's. If all we needed was toughness we'd all be using blunt nosed solids on everything.

I NEVER like a bullet that comes completely apart on anything weighing more than 40 pounds however, so if in doubt you are better going to a tougher bullet. That's why I reject ALL Burgers and also about 95% of the offerings from Sierra.

The one section of the market that Swift beats the Nosler is when fired from rifles that have IMPACT velocities of 2800 FPS and more. Noslers are not as tough as Swifts, so they can be torn apart if the impact speed is that high or higher. But that still doesn't motivate the H.V. shooter to buy them when Barnes offers the X bullets, and those will preform at any velocity too, at a lower cost with equal accuracy.

And now it's going to get even worse for Swift, because Hornady is coming out with a line of GMX bullets that are doing the same thing. (Hornady needs to look at Barnes too, and try to get their GMXs down in price for the same reason.)Hornady GMX bullets are expensive, but still less then Swift.

I stay with the Nosler Partitions for my own use most of the time.

For me personally the tougher properties of Swifts and even the X bullets don't matter, because I don't have any love for super speeds. My fastest rifle is one of my 270 Winchesters that I use 130 grain bullets in, and all my other hunting rifles shoot slower, so the Nosler Partitions give me all I could want. Their down side is simply that they don't offer all the calibers and weights I'd like, but they do cover about 95% of them.

There is an argument that no price is too high to kill game with, when you look at the % of the cost of a hunt.
Well, as a guide and a hunter with nearly 5 decades of experience, I reject that argument because of the number of hunters I have seen who just were poor shots.


When you shoot a $3 round at an elk, moose or even just a deer, you may not care it cost $3. But very very very few men are going to become good marksmen shooting $3 ammo for practice.

It's always 99% the man and 1% what he shoots. If you set a price at a level that the man can't afford to practice you get poor marksmen. As a former guide I have a few horror stories about poor marksmen.

The old Nosler Partition is not a low priced bullet either, but it shoots very close to the same trajectory as a same-weight Remington, Winchester, Hornady, Sierra, or Speer and that means you can shoot a lot more and the just buy one box of Partitions for killing game, and all your practice is gaining you skill.

That is not true for the solid expanding bullets because the solid copper or G.M. bullets are longer for the same weight as a lead core bullet, and at longer range you see it.

So you need to learn the tools you actually use.

I expect the Swifts would not shoot much differently then the above named "regular" bullets, but at their price, most men will not bother to find out. Those with more wealth than the average hunter probably will, but the huge % of hunters in the USA are not going to Africa, and in fact, 97% will never even hunt elk.

I would rather have 10% of the White Tail Deer hunting market than to flat out own 100% of the Cape Buffalo market.

Anyway....that's what I have seen in my years as a gunsmith, hunter, hunting guide and bullet maker.

Others may disagree.