Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Help me diagnose my car stalling

There has to be some smart mechanics on the fire.

I have a 2001 chevy prizm, pretty much a toyota corolla.

It ran fine two weeks ago, sat unused in some pretty cold temps. Went to start, it started ran for 1-2 seconds then died. If I try to start it again immediately it will just crank. If I wait a few seconds it'll start then die.

Pushing the gas has almost no effect and it still dies.

I've cleaned the MAF and currently have the throttle body off, cleaned it last night.

Would it start at all if the fuel pump was going?

Where else to look?

Thanks.

At a garage?

If its still below freezing there could be some water in the gas that has frozen in the line or filter.

Could be fuel related, and yes they sometimes will start a bit with a bad fuel pump or a leak.

Sometimes a good swift kick to a fuel tank will get them going long enough to get them looked at.

It's not throwing you a code?

Can't be specific to yours cause I never had one. But, if you turn the key to 'on' not start, can you hear the fuel pump kick on? If you can it's maybe eliminated. Have you tried any fuel treatment? If it's condensate in the fuel or components that may help. Tump some made for the task into the tank and slosh it a bit, then give it a shot of starter juice shot in the air intake as somebody else turns it over. If it starts but tries to die juice it again. Don't take much. If you get it going run a tank of non-ethanol thru it with something like SeaFoam mixed in. Good luck.

Or the oxygen sensor.

I did put some Heet in the tank, which is full. I'm wondering how much good it'll do since the car really won't run much more than a 1-2 seconds.

Try the starter juice. There's a ton of possibilities here and an error code look-up would probably get you closer. But if condensate froze in the line or pump and is now melted you might be able to push it thru if you can keep the motor running. I try the cheap stuff first.

Check your pressure at the fuel rail, you'll probably find there's ice in the fuel blocking the fuel from getting through.

Push or pull it into your garage and put a heater in there for awhile to eliminate the possibility of it being water in the fuel.

Sound kinda like an IAC valve issue, if you have the throttle body off already its an easy swap.

Holy crap, 10 posts and not a "check the ground" post yet. It's a miracle.

Bad fuel pump.

Fuel pump is a good place to start. JMHO

I did check the ground.

Went in to buy some starting fluid and decided to have the battery checked too. Machine said it was bad. So we'll see this evening. I thought about that but it cranked pretty strong.

LOL. I feel a DUH coming on. You're right. I just "fixed" a Malibu last month with that intermittent issue now that you mention it.

Well the new battery did not change anything.

I tried the starting fluid, I think it made it harder to start. Almost like it had to evaporate before the motor would start then run for 2-3 seconds and die.

I cannot hear the fuel pump run when the key is turned to on. But once the car dies I can hear it running for a few seconds then turn off.

Oreillys in town said I could borrow their code reader for an hour on so tomorrow. I live out of town and can't drive the car there.

ice in the fuel line. if you can get it in a heated garage for 24 hrs I bet it will start right up.

drover

OBD II is your friend

my vehicles so far over the years have been water in fuel and the fuel pump itself, once it was the ignition harness.

I would bet on water in the fuel. They didn't by chance get in some "Colorado" crap? It is already E10. Does your fuel come from Montana or Utah, Idaho, or local Wyo. stuff. If the battery was bad, you may have fouled plugs with a weak spark.

fwiw, the last trouble i had, my load tester
was miles away. there is an auto zone store
2 blocks away so i took it there. dilbert
the parts boy sez sir your battery is kaput.
i knew that was wrong so as soon as i could
access my own test equipment i found my alternator
was no good just like i thought it was. new
alternator fixed me right up. i've also had
to look up my own parts because they didn't
have the slightest clue what i was talking about.

a free diagnosis is worth exactly what you
pay for it

sorry, no helpful hints as i have no experience
with those kind of frigid temperatures. i can
say for sure that the gas we buy these days
is about half water and half pee.
was the pump pressure at the rail in spec ?

It sounds like ice-slush in the fuel filter.
The fuel pump runs till it reaches pressure then shuts off so I'm still thinking fuel filter.

as bad as the gasoline is these days
changing the fuel filter frequently
is not a bad idea, although many newer
vehicles that i know of (fords) no
longer have a serviceable fuel filter

If your temp have been like our (nothing above the teens for about 3 weeks) I suspect one has frozen water in the line, pump, or filter. That's one of the components one gets as alcohol degrades. I'd try getting it into a heated garage and pop the filter, dump it, let it warm in the house, and try dumping it again to see if any melt occurred.

Do you have air flow thru the filter?? You've most likely done this but if not open the air filter box and pull the filter and try it. If the engine won't pick up when you spray starter fluid in the air intake you may be oxygen starving it. Course if there's ice in the fuel line you're fuel starving. That's a SWAG from a shade tree mechanic but I'd check it. If you somehow got water in the filter and it froze or if there's anything else in there to cause a serious occlusion it would create problems. But a code reader is more likely the gem.

Does it have a chip in the key?

Our Expedition does exactly that with one of the keys, which is now retired as a starter key. The chip went bad. We keep it on our person when traveling as a spare door opener in case we lock the real keys inside. Been known to happen....

. And it went bad just like THAT- overnight you might say. One day it worked, the next it did not.

But it sounds like water...

My first thought too.

Can't hurt to add Heet.

Most gas is already 10% ethanol. Any water in the tank would already have been put into solution by the ethanol. I don't see how adding a different type of alcohol, in this case Heet, will accomplish a thing.

As a kid gas stations used to have big displays of Heet. You don't see that anymore now - for a reason.

Also, when was the last time you changed your fuel filter?

Does it have a fuel injection or a carb? If the latter, check to see if the carb valve is sticking. (I suppose sitting in the cold for days could do it- but doesn't sound too likely... we had an airline baggage ramp doing that - new carb fixed it.)

This..

I think your problem is fuel related.

Wish you luck.

As I understand it (not an organic chemist) E-10 can absorb a lot of water except at low temps. At lower temps, there can be a phase separation resulting in a water layer.

Apparently the methanol in Heet does not do this.

Needs gas

Basically, yes!

I'm kind of late to the party here but if you're still chasing this problem:
I agree with most of these others that it's ice in the fuel, probably the filter. If you can get it into a warm garage, it'll thaw out in a couple of hours. If a warm garage isn't an option, a tarp that could go over the car and reach the ground and then an ELECTRIC space heater under the car near the fuel filter if possible should get it going. A hair dryer to the filter might be faster. If you don't have a tarp, putting hay or straw bales around the car to keep the heat in would work as well.

You said the tank is full, but if there was room for 5gal of room temp gas in the tank, that'd probably thaw it out and allow the HEET that you put in the tank to work.

This brutal cold just makes everything more complicated doesn't it?

Low fuel pressure from clogged fuel filter or a fuel pump on it's way out. Sometimes the fuel filter is part of the fuel pump assembly. Fuel pressure gauges are cheap! I just went through this with my Son's Chevy pickup. If you decide to replace the pump/filter yourself research the price of the parts first. The price range is astounding with GM being the highest.

I just got done reading the codes. P1315. Bad ignition coil, coil wiring, on cylinder 4 or maybe the ECM.

So I switched the ignition coil #4 with #3 and got the same code but for #3. There isn't one in town but it'll be here in the morning.

I'm optimistic that that really is it since the code changed when I swapped them.

But If there is an issue with the fuel as well I'm not sure if that throws a code?

When I googled this code there was a youtube video that came up that showed the exact same symptoms.

If it's the fuel, it would probably throw a low fuel pressure code. That's what happens with my Duramax. Not nearly the same thing of course but there you have it.

Ralph,

After you change the bad coil, which now resides @ #3, I'm betting it's going to be flooded as schidte, from all the starting you've been trying to do.

Here's the important part. Once ready to start, hold your foot flat to the mat, on the gas peddle, while turning over till it catches.

This will shut off the fuel supply, until combustion occurs.

Once running, take it & your cell phone for a decent drive. Pick up a can of seafoam while out & add it to your gas. It will help to clean up your injectors 'n' stuff.

Fuel issues will not throw a code.

If there is a schrader valve on the fuel rail, fuel pressure can be checked there with the proper gauges.

Does this vehicle have a mass air flow sensor ?

It does have a MAF and I cleaned it, it did not appear to be dirty.

OK, good !

Put sea foam in it

Got it off the campfire here...

but started with my mower engines having issue with the crap ethanol we get....

started adding 5% diesel fuel to it and that has eliminated the problems ethanol breaking down causes...

have also been using it in my vehicles....

throw a $1.50 to $2.00 worth of diesel in each tank I pick up...

the diesel fuel retards the flame, so essential ups the octane, but diesel also has additives to combat and absorb water in the fuel... which is a present ethanol gives us..

the 5% diesel seems to absorb any water which ethanol gives ya.... certainly worked in the mower motors, as that was the usual problems...

also to see if there is a fuel issue, over at the college, we usually put an unlit propane torch down the intake... if there is a spark, the engine will run.... that's how we eliminate if it is a fuel problem from the tank to the intake...seems to work pretty darn well....

seafoam is ethanol/alcohol based...

Would like to know what the fix is when you get it running. Thanks.

Put a bottle of alcohol in the gas tank sounds like water in the fuel or frozen fuel line filter

Many cars are designed to start momentarily then quit if the chip doesn't work. Some keys have batteries, too (like my Ram). If that's the case and the battery's dead, it will start momentarily then quit.

I won't be able to install the new ignition coil until this evening. This car just has old fashion keys.

Ralph,

Could be numerous things.

MAF can be bad and engine will still start.

One bad cylinder coil, engine should start & run with misfire.

Cold (under 20F) could cause frozen fuel line and no start condition. Once temp reaches 30'sF engine should start.

Check these simple things in this order (from my memory):

#1)Are you getting any OBD codes? If yes, tell me what they read.

#2) Is there spark at each coil (all 4). Pull each coil one at a time. Ground end with insulated screwdriver as someone cranks engine for 3 seconds each. Spark must be blue & jump 1" to ground.

#3) Is there pulsating juice to each injector connector? Remove each injector wire one at a time & re-install after each test. Check + wire with grounded test lamp while someone cranks engine for 3 secs each. You should see bright flashing test light on each injector.

#4) Is there fuel pressure at the injector rail? Best to do with a gauge hooked up. Should read about 40 lbs and hold for 5 minutes.

If you follow these simple steps, you can begin to diagnose your problem. Should not take you more than 1/2 hr total to do these 4 simple steps.

Post your results and I'll try to check back.

-Ken

Careful with the Seafoam, don't use more than the recommended dosage.

If overdosed it can/will break gunk loose from your fuel tank walls and REALLY cause problems. Been there done that with a motorhome......

The only code I got was P1315, going to put a new ignition coil on it this evening. It changed to p1310 when I swapped it with the #3 coil.

But I wondered too why it wouldn't start with a misfire with just one bad ignition coil.

Computers...

Should still start with a bad coil.

-Ken

The new coil did the trick. Fired right up. Took it for a 20 minute drive and ran great.

Congrats!!!!

Woohoo

I love a happy ending!