Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Why the .45 ACP "sucks" for self defense

Agreed gents, always thought if I had the choice, I'd rather be hit with a fast golf ball than a medium speed red brick.

I like the 45ACP a lot because it is bigger! Sadly all the info seems to show that an imaginary bad guy holding his pistol pointed at you and ready to fire and you fire a shot "if" he is shot in exactly the same place with a 230 grain 45 caliber GDHP or the 147 grain 9mm GDHP he will have the same 4-5 seconds to try and kill you regardless of which caliber. I am not selling my 45's but am thinking of trading a model 17 for a VP9 and a few spare magazines.

Cartridge is as important as platform is.
The design and performance of the projectile is all that matters..
38SPL, 357MAG, 9MM Luger, .380acp, 38 super all throw an identical projectile and could be confused with each other post mortem.

You feel the .380 performs as well as the others on your list?

I also question the wisdom of including the .380 ACP in with the other cartridges mentioned. As I tell anyone considering the .380 for self defense, "You shoot somebody with that and you're gonna piss them off".

Don

I'm not a fan of the .380, but I'm starting to doubt the wisdom of those who discount it immediately.

There was a time when the .36 Navy was considered to be a pretty good manstopper. Of course, the .44 Army was better, but that's because the .50 Air Force hadn't been invented yet.

Anyway, when you have slower projectiles like the Navy and the Army, the profile of that projectile is more important than the velocity. I'm thinking the leading edge of a round ball profile is pretty good for transferring shock. That's why the older .380 projectiles that were pretty blunt, may have been pretty good for letting people know they'd been shot.

i have always thought some of this was funny. I.E. a 38special 158grain doing about 850-900fps. Not good in some circles.
a 9mm 147grain doing about the same velocity, wonderful.
a 38 diameter .357
a 9mm diameter .355
yeah okay.
or, in a more enlightened age:
a 45 colt diameter .454 250 grain at about 950fps.
Say, this was figured out around 1873.

Kind of like a 44magnum is more than a 41magnum.
lets see:
.429
.410
big difference huh?

A LOT has changed since the days when the .38 Special was considered marginal.

yep, among them being bullet construction.

135 gr spear gold dot

I always thought the 38 Special got a bad name from use in small snub revolvers, since that's what used to be "the thing" for concealed carry. That's not 850-900 fps, more like 650-700 fps if we're talking factory 158gr. A 9mm is generally a significant step up in that comparison.

There were a number of things in the past that gave the .38 Special a bad rep as a man stopper. Round nose bullets and the above mentioned low velocities in short barreled revolvers. With the advent of the 158gr SWCHP bullet in .38 Special +P loads (i.e. the FBI load), these changes IMHO made the .38 Special a very respectable choice for self defense. Personally I would and do take it over the faster and lighter 9mm loads that are available.

Don

You want to catch a couple in the shirt pocket and tell me?
9x17 vs 9x19?
Yeah...I think that when I put a couple 9MM bullets from a PPK center mass, they are going to be as effective as if they came out of a G26.

wait be very careful! only the 9 millimeter was found to be the best for Law Enforcement this time. Reminds me of the Holy Hand Grenade skit.

Have seen deer killed with a .22 rimfire. That doesn't make it a deer cartridge or particularly "effective".

Don

You want to catch a couple .177 BB's in the eye and tell me how that goes? Doesn't mean a BB gun is a good choice for carry.

There's a lot more difference than just 2mm of case capacity, but I'm sure you know that.

Primarily, our obsession over it.

One thing I rarely see mentioned in these discussions (including this particular one) is the effect of firing any particular load on the shooter himself.

I think pretty much everyone agrees that while "one shot stops" with handgun cartridges are possible, they can't be counted on to consistently happen, not to mention immediately incapacitate the hobgoblin being shot. The ability to fire a second (or third, or fourth) shot accurately could be critical to ending a threat. Thus when assessing a defensive round's effectiveness, one has to take into consideration muzzle flash and concussive effect of the round.

Many defensive shootings by civilians are in the dark (bad guys like to work at night) and in enclosed or semi-enclosed areas (inside a house, a parking ramp, or an alley). Bright muzzle flash in a dark room can temporarily blind the shooter. The bad guy might not be affected as badly due to him not looking directly at the firearm, whereas the shooter is always looking at the end of the barrel. For this reason, any rounds for defensive purposes should be test fired under low light conditions, with the load giving the least amount of muzzle flash being more desirable in that regard.

Rare is the time when a defensive shooting occurs and the shooter is wearing ear protection. The louder the blast, the more intense the concussive effects of the noise on the eardrums, and the more the shooter's ability to effectively react to the situation is hampered. If one has ever fired a high velocity 125 grain .357 magnum load from a 2" barreled revolver in an enclosed space, they know what I'm talking about. The blast is so ferocious that it can momentarily stun one's senses.


It is for these reasons that my defensive round choices tend to be subsonic, heavy for caliber bullets. They are hand loaded and tested with various powder/primer combinations that render the lowest amount of flash and muzzle blast, while achieving the desired velocities (under 1,150 fps).

For .38 Special/.357 Magnum, 160 grain SWCHP are my choice. For .45 ACP, I use 230 grain Gold Dots, and for 10mm, 180 Grain XTPs are my go-to bullets.

Which gun I select depends upon the situation. The 3" barreled GP100 .357 Magnum sits on my nightstand, the .45 acp Colt Defender is my concealed carry weapon, and the S&W 1006 10mm is in my glovebox in the truck. When I'm afield out in the sticks, a 7 1/2" Redhawk in either .44 Magnum or .45 Colt is on my hip, loaded with 300 grain SWCHPs.

Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.

Defensive handguns caliber choice is a relative choice. It would/should be be different to different people.

A Trooper might be best suited with a 357 Sig. A store clerk a 45, a hiker in bear country a 10mm on up to 454 or such. A 9mm or 40 problably are great choices for a lot of people.

I have most of them except the Sig. I started with the 45&357 magnum, and 44 magnum. I got into the 40 cal, because that's what we where later issued. The 10 mm was actually the first Glock that I bought and then later traded for my 45. I got the 9mm for the kids to shoot and practice with.

Each to his own.

So, by that logic, we should all carry 50AE?
I assure you...I am quite confident in a .380s ability to stop a threat at a reasonable distance.
I'm not carrying a weapon on the thin chance I'm confronted by a 6-4", PCP smoking, Samoan wearing a leather coat charging at me from 20 yards away.
I also don't wear neck knives, photojournalist vestsr or carry a "CCW badge".
Reality got to me early I guess.