Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Why aren't there better semi's for big game?

PA may be on on the verge of legalizing semi auto rifles for deer this year. I've been considering what I might get for deer season. I know that the Remington 742/750 series is junk and the Browning BAR is a bit too heavy and pricy for me. The Winchester 100 and the Ruger Deerfield .44 carbine seem about right but they're old and scarce. I like AR's but they aren't my idea of a deer rifle. I just wonder why there aren't better options for the big game hunter?

The Remington 750 series is supposed to be an improvement over the 7400 series. What kind of problems are you reading they have?

not enough interest.

MM,

I think you answered the question.

They cost more, are heavier and have feed/function issues that you don't see in single shots or bolt guns.

Rest assured if enough people bought them they would make them...........

AR and rock on

When you mention semi-auto rifles some things come to mind.

Heavy
Unreliable
Inaccurate
Expensive
Ugly, compared to traditional rifles
Odd ergonomics, again, not traditional
Lousy triggers

Some of these issues are fact, some perception, but all semi rifles are burdened with some of them. The Ar rifles are among the best but,

Ugly
Heavy, can be light but in reality usually 8# +
Looks and ergo, odd for traditionalist
Trigger, can be made decent

Same ones they've always had. At least that's what guys are saying on here.

Benelli R1.

Reasonable weight, 1.5MOA accuracy, the two I own have been flawless - literally 2,000 plus rounds fired between them w/o a malfunction. They can be completely dissassembled for a through cleaning, critical function parts are easily user serviced. Have found both of my two rifle's triggers perfectly acceptable. Looks are meh, but so what...

David

This sums it up perfectly!

I'd agree and add that for most big game hunting, a faster second shot than you can get with a lever or bolt action is just not something most people need.

Agreed. But I just like semi-auto's. I've also been considering the Remington 81.

Browning or Benelli

Why so picky?

It's odd to me, because even though I read comments about how people assume that a BAR, for example, is heavy, the reality is that the current BAR Mark III weighs the same as a Model 70 Featherweight. Well, okay, it weighs a whopping 2 oz more. The BAR Safari (scroll-engraved steel receiver) is 6 oz _lighter_ than a Super Grade 70. I assume that's from the 2" longer bbl on the 70.

So, in other words, a modern auto-loader is _not_ heavier than a bolt gun, but apparently people still _think_ they are(?). I only own 1 BAR, so it's hard to state empirically how reliability compares. What I know is that sometimes a bolt gun balks on me when chambering a cartridge. Not an outright jam, normally, but sometimes a bit of a balk. The only time my BAR has had any functional issue is when I was adjusting (closing) the gas port to precisely match my long-range handloads.

NOTE: All comparisons here are using the 30-06 chambering

Browning BAR's really don't have reliability issues and the new BAR III Stalker in .243,7-08 or .308 weigh 6 pounds 10 oz.
Remington destroyed the market for semi auto hunting rifles.

i wonder how many people have actually
used a semi auto hunting rifle extensively
and have had a slew of problems, and how
many just read it somewhere and pass it on
down the line ?

You might consider a Springfield Armory M1A Squad Scout or their SOCOM 16.
They are lighter than advertised. Mine, a Squad Scout with a synthetic stock w/o the steel trap butt plate runs 7.8 lbs. w/o the scope. With a Leupold 1.5-4X Scout Scope, it runs 8 3/4's lbs.
The triggers are far better than any AR I've ever tried. After a trigger job, their second stage break is very close to my bolt guns.
On top of all that, they come with a muzzle break that allows you to stay on target nicely for follow up shots.
Mine shoots 4 rds. into 1.5 MOA consistantly with about 5 different hunting loads.
Their reliability is considered better than any of the AR .308's. E

The 750 is no longer in production. Hasn't been on Remington's website for a couple of years.

Short answer, a bolt rifle does everything better with rifles larger than 223. Even the best semi is going to weigh about 2 lbs more than is possible to make a bolt gun and will simply NEVER be as reliable or accurate over a wide range of loads. Semi's can be reasonably reliable if the ammo is made within a narrow range of pressure and bullet weights. And accuracy can be acceptable, but will never approach a bolt gun.

The only alleged advantage is faster repeat shots. This is a positive in the military who need to provide covering fire, but not in a hunting rifle. Yes, you can empty the magazine on a semi faster than you can with a bolt gun, but for someone willing to learn how to run a bolt rifle you are talking about a fraction of a second difference for 3 rounds.

And if you start requiring those shots actually hit something there is no difference in rate of fire with rounds larger than 223. It takes longer to recover from recoil on a 30-06 class cartridge and get the sights re aligned on target than it takes to cycle a bolt gun. On AR's and other low recoiling rifles you can get back on target somewhat faster.

PA hasn't missed a thing on big game hunting. While semi-autos have been legal every where else virtually no one uses them.

The Belgium BARs handled very well. Had 2. One misfired in cold weather. Could have been my fault, but still lost confidence in it after that.

I have had many BARs come through my shop for scoping and fitting pads, but very few problems with function. They are quite good. Not "sniper accurate" but clearly accurate enough for big game hunting. We are all familiar with the love GIs had for M-1 Garands and m-14s and I have to point out that the BAR sporting rifles out-shoot nearly all M-1s adn M-14s in accuracy. Some of the match grade and sniper versions of the GI rifles will shoot better than a BAR, but only a little bit.

I own a Benelli R-1 in 270 short mag. It's finicky about ammo, but with my best hand loads using 160 gr Nosler Partitions it shoot just slightly over MOA. I have killed antelope, deer and elk with it. Most shots were 250 yards and out to 400 and it's not even a problem to make kills with.

If you are dead set against using something that "looks military" you would not be interested in any of the AR style rifles in 6.5 Grendel, 6.8SPC, 30 Rem-Ar 260 7-08 or 308. But before I leave those out, I would like to point out the accuracy they they are capable of. Sub MOA is so common with good ones that it's boring and if you buy a good AR I doubt you will ever have any function problems.

They are ugly, but for most white-tail hunting in most places in the USA, an AK-47 is a great tool. If you get one with a good barrel and you use good ammo they will shoot 2.5MOA out to about 300 yards. If we are honest with ourselves, we have to admit that 2.5MOA is just fine in most cases, and we also need to admit that most of the shots made for white tails are under 300 years. 2.5 MOA is all that many M-94 Winchesters did, and they brought back so many deer to freezers that we can't count them. AKs are SUPER reliable.

Remington 740-742-7400 and so on have always been fairly cheaply made (not reflected in the price however)
Even the Remington service center will admit to you if you push them that the engineers at Remington made then to last "at least 500 rounds" Not 5000. 500.
To me, that's not very impressive. I know men that own some that have been trouble free, but I know of not one man that has shot over 1000 from one without failures. There may be some out there, but I can be pretty sure they are rare.

For now, if you want to buy an accurate reliable non-military sporting auto I think Browning is the only one I would consider. R-1 Benelli would be good too, but I understand they are not being made anymore. They are also weird looking but not military looking.

I have a BAR MK II and 2 of my hunting buddies have as well. Reliability is exactly 100%, so not sure how a bolt gun is going to be more reliable. Accuracy with all the BARs I have first hand experience with is uniformly excellent. Mine prints well under MOA and one of my buddies BAR shoot little bitty one hole cloverleafs all day long. By the way, I also had a BOSS equipped BAR, which I replaced with an non-BOSS. It was equally accurate and reliable.

The standard BAR is no heavier than a standard bolt gun and to me, easier to carry with the flat receiver. Truth is, I have only once in 19 years with the BAR needed a second shot. It is unquestionably faster than any bolt gun. Reduced recoil and there is another round already waiting for you.

I can't imagine anybody who has actually hunted with a BAR having any real fact based objection. I do own a number of excellent bolt rifles too and hunt with them as well, but the BAR will always be one of my favorites.