I have 6.5 Swede RCBS loading dies sitting on the shelf... I have over a hundred rounds of brass... I have a ready supply of Speer 140 grain hotcors...
But I have never paid more than $630 for a rifle, and this rifle will cost near double that...
base and rings will be pricey... i will need to acquire a new scope... i have no idea how reliable a Sako 85 is in cold and wet weather...
OK, here are my first two reasons not to buy: (1) it isn't a 7x57 (2) a Ruger M77 MkII will cost a third the price and is likely to be more reliable in the field in icy/wet/dusty conditions
I've owned several Sako's but not an 85. It will be a well built accurate gun. I am no longer a fan of the mounting system and if there is a problem with the gun Beretta will blame it on you.
No need to worry about weather.
For the price of a new one ,you can also own someone's used custom.In fact I would actually rather buy a Tikka. The mounting system is better and the action is stiffer. Both shoot well but I suspect there are more one hole shooters with Tikka than with Sako. FYI they use the same barrels.
Look around and right now you can likely still find a close out T3 Tikka for under $500.
I ordered one of the swedes an hunted it for the past two seasons. I have been very pleased with it. I liked it enough to drop it in a McMillan and have not looked back. It is a great little rifle.
I have both Tikka and Sako.....for hunting pass me the Tikka. They both do the same thing, one costs twice as much. The tikka is a noticably lighter rifle to carry in the field.
Trystan
Last edited by Trystan; 01/21/17.
Good bullets properly placed always work, but not everyone knows what good bullets are, or can reliably place them in the field
1. Scope mounting options are extremely limited for Sakos. 2. Sako's tapered dovetail mounting scheme is a PIA. 3. The larger (above XS) action sizes have been said to have ejection issues, some have remedied this with a spring swap. I've had issues with my XS, if I operate the bolt too gingerly toward the end of the stroke. 4. COAL can be restricted by the proprietary DBM 5. There is no aftermarket bottom metal available. 6. Aftermarket stocks are very limited. 7. Their funky lug/block action to stock design is just that, funky.
On the upside, they are shooters. I just got back from the range with my Sako 85 Varmint 223, 1:8, single set trigger. It'll make a ragged hole with 77gr. SMKs at 200. Some have very nice wood, but your looking at synthetic. I'd consider SS Tikka with a McMillian stock upgrade.
I just clicked your link. There are several reasons to choose something else but they are mostly just personal preference. That's a great price on a very nice quality rifle. If it fits your taste in rifles it will be a good gun that will serve you well.
My taste the last few years has been toward very light weight rifles.Other than not being able to slap a set of talley lightweights on a Sako and the fact that it is a little heavier than my current favorite rifles,I like my Sako rifles better than any others I've owned.
Tikkas are great and possibly even better than a Sako if you aren't bothered by some durable plastic parts. Rem. 700's are great if you like to tinker and improve and you might get an accurate one right out of the box. Lots of other great guns. Most of them are great because the owner places more importance over one quality rather than another. The main thing is to know what qualities you like and value most, and to know which guns excel in that area.
OK, here are my first two reasons not to buy: (1) it isn't a 7x57 (2) a Ruger M77 MkII will cost a third the price and is likely to be more reliable in the field in icy/wet/dusty conditions
I think Number 1 settles it.
"An archer sees how far he can be from a target and still hit it, a bowhunter sees how close he can get before he shoots." It is certainly easy to use that same line of thinking with firearms. -- Unknown
Ejection problems make the 85 platform unreliable. This is more than an isolated incident. When it happens to you on the hunt, your money will have been wasted.
They are overpriced.
They have a not-great scope-mounting system with little flexibility.
The Sako will be in direct competition to my 280 Rem M700 CDL, talley lightweights, Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40, which weighs as configured a tad under 8lb.
Sako website claims the synthetic 85 in 6.5X55 weighs < 6.5lb
If you are happy with your Rem.,I wouldn't buy it. It's a nice rifle but it isn't offering you anything better.
How do you feel about light weight rifles? I am on a light weight kick right now but you might consider saving just a little more and trying one. I'm talking about something right at 6 lbs scoped. Something like a proven Montana, low production number Forbes 20B, or possibly the Barrett Fieldcraft.
Like Steelhead and DakotaDeer said the 85 has a very bad ejector design unless it's on a 94 Winchester. There's a ton of discussion on this in various threads. The ejector blade is at dead 6 o'clock on the bolt face, pushing the cartridge or case straight up. The extractor at about 10 o'clock can be easily overwhelmed. If the case mouth hits the scope, and on mine it was 100% of the time, the case head keeps pushing on the ejector until the case rim pops out of the extractor and the case lays down in the action. Mine was a 85M in 30-06. Customer service with Beretta/Sako told me they couldn't guarantee ejection on every scope and mount combination users come up with. They refused to do anything about it. I was using a 1" scope tube in medium Leupold mounts. Pretty exotic, huh. Buy at your own risk. Below is a picture of the bolt face positioned during the ejection cycle. Hard to imagine it might bounce cases off the scope isn't it. LOL.
edit: In fairness to customer service with regard to correction of the problem, there really isn't much way to compensate for this faulty design. On the other hand they didn't have to lie in placing the blame on me and my equipment. They know better.
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version) "And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him."
You're right about the long actions. I just modified my post to indicate what I had. Have not heard any complaints about short actions. As far as changing the spring? Raised that possibility with customer service and they denied there was anything wrong to fix. Said they'd never heard of that. As you can probably tell I have a very negative opinion of their customer service (oxymoron) after this experience. After dealing with them and taking a really good look at the mechanical design of the extraction/ejection system I decided I didn't want to MAKE it work. I didn't want anything else to do with it. Speaking of my particular rifle it didn't matter if I worked the action fast or slow it failed. Glad yours is satisfactory. But as far as I'm concerned every time that design works, it almost didn't. I would never trust it. But continued good luck to you with yours.
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version) "And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him."
wow, very informative feedback, thanks much for the pic of the bolt. i am going to pass on the Sako 85. just can't see spending that much money on a rifle that may give me issues that generate from the design engineering fundamentals...
wow, very informative feedback, thanks much for the pic of the bolt. i am going to pass on the Sako 85. just can't see spending that much money on a rifle that may give me issues that generate from the design engineering fundamentals...
Spend even more and buy a Barrett Fieldcraft or a Cooper. Once you spend $1000 the first time $2000 doesn't seem like so much for the next one.
I guess I have been lucky. All the sako 85's I have owned have been 100% perfect (I think I own all action sizes). The only issue with owning one is you won't want another Remington, Winchester, ruger, etc.
I have only owned one Tikka and while it was a good rifle it was no Sako. Nothing like having a 223 with a long action....
I guess I have been lucky. All the sako 85's I have owned have been 100% perfect (I think I own all action sizes). The only issue with owning one is you won't want another Remington, Winchester, ruger, etc.
I have only owned one Tikka and while it was a good rifle it was no Sako. Nothing like having a 223 with a long action....
Dink
Honestly I don't think too many on this thread actually own them.
The Sako 85 is a high quality rifle, and, 9 times out of 10, they are exceptional shooters right out of the box. The ejection issues have been overstated here. I have an 85 in .25-06, and I've had zero issues.
I do agree that Beretta Customer Service is beyond garbage, and I won't personally buy any new products under their umbrella as I KNOW they won't stand behind them.
The mounting system is actually extremely strong...much more so than the typical arrangement, but there are fewer options for mounts and rings. That's okay, as the one-piece Sako Ringmount is a fantastic design.
The Sako 85 is a high quality rifle, and, 9 times out of 10, they are exceptional shooters right out of the box. The ejection issues have been overstated here. I have an 85 in .25-06, and I've had zero issues.
I do agree that Beretta Customer Service is beyond garbage, and I won't personally buy any new products under their umbrella as I KNOW they won't stand behind them.
The mounting system is actually extremely strong...much more so than the typical arrangement, but there are fewer options for mounts and rings. That's okay, as the one-piece Sako Ringmount is a fantastic design.
For my part, the issue is not overstated. My experience is just as I described without embellishment. I even saved the exchange of emails with customer service. Many others have experienced this same level of performance with the 85M and have described it pretty much the way I did. If you would like to get additional feedback start a thread asking for input on Sako 85 failures. I will not tell someone to not buy a Sako 85 or to buy one. That choice is up to the consumer. My experience is free to use or not use in making that decision.
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version) "And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him."
I guess I have been lucky. All the sako 85's I have owned have been 100% perfect (I think I own all action sizes). The only issue with owning one is you won't want another Remington, Winchester, ruger, etc.
I have only owned one Tikka and while it was a good rifle it was no Sako. Nothing like having a 223 with a long action....
Dink
Honestly I don't think too many on this thread actually own them.
I agree.
I wonder how many guys have actually owned one long enough to see what a sako will really do.
I don't how anyone could go from a sako to a ruger or Remington...
1. Consider a Tikka instead: less expensive, better scope mounting system, stiffer action, same/better accuracy 2. Beretta support sucks 3. A Tikka is a noticeably lighter rifle to carry in the field 4. Scope mounting options are extremely limited for the Sako 5. Sako's tapered dovetail mounting scheme is a PIA 6. Some of the larger (above XS) action sizes have ejection issues 7. COAL can be restricted by the proprietary DBM 8. There is no aftermarket bottom metal available 9. Aftermarket stocks are very limited 10. The lug/block action to stock design is not appealing to some
wow, very informative feedback, thanks much for the pic of the bolt. i am going to pass on the Sako 85. just can't see spending that much money on a rifle that may give me issues that generate from the design engineering fundamentals...
Dogger,
You do not need any assistance, in talking yourself out of a Sako, as you have already started your thread from the negative.
On the other hand, if you have interest, and are trying to wade through the BS, I'll offer my opinion:
There are quite a volume of Sako 85s in use all over the world. Search for videos showing any of those Sako 85s that will eject straight up, through the grip of the extractor. You will not find a single one, as it does not exist. Search for any video showing a Sako 85 that ejects straight up, so that the case goes into the scope tube, and bounces back into the receiver, so to fail to reliably eject and fail to reliably feed. It does not exist. However, you will find quite a number of videos, both slow motion, and real time, showing Sako 85s cycling and ejecting well.
For near a decade now, I've noticed the same handful of people, circulate the same repeated stories, of a few rifles, that at most, would "tink" the scope as the cases were ejected, and turn these incidents into stories of "failure" to eject. When pressed, at the times they still had possession, they would never post a video to demonstrate such claim. Even when offered a hand at a fix, the same handful, reply from the negative, as having no wish to attempt doing so.
You will see this predisposed negative attitude toward Sako, the mounts, the stock, etc. If you look below the surface, you will find much of this BS coming from those who have never run an 85, have never run a Sako synthetic stock, and have never run a current set of Sako mounts.
My advice, if a Sako fits you out the box, and you are not one having a tendency to crawl the stock, THEN, a Sako is worth a good look. On the other hand, if it does not fit you, you tend to stock crawl, or you have need to replace the factory stock to make it work, THEN, a Sako may not be worth a good look.
As for ejection, the claw holds the case, and the standing ejector will only push the case UP, within the spacial clearance between the case head and bolt face. This is enough height to clear the rail. But from that point, the case is under the control of the extractor claw, and MUST follow that path of ejection. The only possible way for the standing ejector to push the case straight up through the grip of the claw, would be if something is askew or out of spec. Examples of this:
-Parts not properly cleaned, and are gummed up and sticking.
-Claw is out of spec, and not holding the case.
-Case is worn or out of spec.
-Spring tension is weak.
Outside of this, some combinations are such, that full hard ejection dinks the case on the way out, but it does eject.
If you look, you will find the same complaints about most every make of rifle made. Just recently there was a thread on ejection issues with Kimber. Quite a number of such threads will have some, piling on, with a volume of repeated BS.
Best of luck
Last edited by GaryVA; 01/22/17.
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
Gary you just don't know what you're talking about. Your explanation of the operating system and statement about what the case MUST do tells me you are overly confident in the fallibility of mechanical devices. You think we're out here making this up? Seriously Gary? I for one was very unhappy that my rifle was defective. Was looking forward to hunting with it. So drop the baseless accusations. What I said happened really happened. It matches what others have said happened with other rifles. I'm not lying and the others are not lying either. And if this is something that can be fixed Beretta customer service should be fixing the rifles instead of telling folks like me they know nothing of this problem. If you want to identify liars look no further than Beretta CS. I know what happened, others like me know what happened, and Beretta knows it happens. Argue the positive merits of a defective design all you like, but don't insinuate I'm dishonest. The thread is yours, I'm done.
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version) "And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him."
I own several Finnlights including a 6.5x55, handles great, shoots Nosler Trophy Grade and Hornady SST 140's into 1/2" groups, the ejection can be "funky" at times. For some reason when I put 5 in the magazine and run the bolt hard they eject fine for the first 3 rounds and the 4th one seems not to eject. I figure for deer hunting if I can't kill a deer with 4 shots I deserve to get skunked!
Yeah nobody loves Sako rifles more than Gary, I wish I could find a rifle that I love as much as Gary loves Sako's........I have owned a dozen or so new in box 75/85 model Sako rifles in various models and calibers and they do have good points like fit and finish, i do like the synthetic stocks on Sako 85's but if you guy's are in denial over the ejection issue I'm sorry but it really does exist and is actually rather common.....Im also not a fan of their Optilock mounting system, on the other hand I am no fanboy of any brand of rifle and I can think of features I dont like on almost all of them........I just call it as I have experienced it, no fanboy here...........Hb
I own several Finnlights including a 6.5x55, handles great, shoots Nosler Trophy Grade and Hornady SST 140's into 1/2" groups, the ejection can be "funky" at times. For some reason when I put 5 in the magazine and run the bolt hard they eject fine for the first 3 rounds and the 4th one seems not to eject. I figure for deer hunting if I can't kill a deer with 4 shots I deserve to get skunked!
If the top 3 feed and eject correctly, but you have trouble with the last, then what is different, is that last round has the least amount of upward spring force to hold the follower to guide the case. Or, something with the top of the follower, itself, is not correctly guiding the last case.
Make sure all is clean, without burrs, damage, or debris, so the follower runs smooth and free without binding at the top. Make sure the spring has sufficient strength. Compare with a fresh mag box.
Last edited by GaryVA; 01/22/17.
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
Gary--thanks, rifle in new and for some reason the mag will hold 5 not 4, I figures the ejection was based on how much pressure was exerted upward. When it gets to the last 2 rounds, no ejection!
1. Consider a Tikka instead: less expensive, better scope mounting system, stiffer action, same/better accuracy 2. Beretta support sucks 3. A Tikka is a noticeably lighter rifle to carry in the field 4. Scope mounting options are extremely limited for the Sako 5. Sako's tapered dovetail mounting scheme is a PIA 6. Some of the larger (above XS) action sizes have ejection issues 7. COAL can be restricted by the proprietary DBM 8. There is no aftermarket bottom metal available 9. Aftermarket stocks are very limited 10. The lug/block action to stock design is not appealing to some
Let me inject a little reality here, as some folks are clearly going off the deep end, and your list is far from factual:
- A Tikka has plastic parts, and a Sako does not. If that's cool for you, then fine. But's let be clear about why there's a price difference. Nobody is bashing Tikkas here, but they are NOT the same rifle, so let's not pretend that they are or that they are equivalent. There are Savages that will outshoot Sakos, but nobody would pretend that they're the same rifle.
- Scope mounting options are not limited. I have no idea what you're even talking about. The forward ringmount does not have to be positioned all the way forward on the dovetail...you do understand this, right? That fore/aft movement allows you to position the ring as needed to fit your scope. What makes this a PIA is beyond me. Some clearly don't understand how it operates.
- You don't need or want aftermarket bottom metal for a Sako 85. It's already got the highest quality, most well-machined bottom metal available for a rifle.
- McMillan makes stocks for the Sako 85. Is anyone really going to buy a Sako and put a B&C on it?
- I can only speak for the ML action, but my .25-06 has an absurd amount of extra room for COAL. Any cartridge in the .30-06 class could be loaded as long as you wanted.
It is basically a black Finnlight, on sale, $400 off. All the internal workings are the same stainless, with the only difference being the receiver and barrel are black.
Been contemplating a 260 Finnlight, but not quite sure having the S-action would be of any advantage for me vs a M-action Swede. Difference weight wise is only 2 or 3 ounces.
That stock could not fit me any better than if it were custom made to my dimensions. Weight wise, it fits my likes very well. Cartridge wise, I think the 6.5x55 makes a better fit than my 243 Sako I recently sold for funds to pursue a 6.5 something else Sako. I may just pounce on this one. Optilock Ringmounts and a fixed LEU 6x could very well be what the doctor ordered.
Last edited by GaryVA; 01/22/17.
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
1. Consider a Tikka instead: less expensive, better scope mounting system, stiffer action, same/better accuracy 2. Beretta support sucks 3. A Tikka is a noticeably lighter rifle to carry in the field 4. Scope mounting options are extremely limited for the Sako 5. Sako's tapered dovetail mounting scheme is a PIA 6. Some of the larger (above XS) action sizes have ejection issues 7. COAL can be restricted by the proprietary DBM 8. There is no aftermarket bottom metal available 9. Aftermarket stocks are very limited 10. The lug/block action to stock design is not appealing to some
Let me inject a little reality here, as some folks are clearly going off the deep end, and your list is far from factual:
- A Tikka has plastic parts, and a Sako does not. If that's cool for you, then fine. But's let be clear about why there's a price difference. Nobody is bashing Tikkas here, but they are NOT the same rifle, so let's not pretend that they are or that they are equivalent. There are Savages that will outshoot Sakos, but nobody would pretend that they're the same rifle.
- Scope mounting options are not limited. I have no idea what you're even talking about. The forward ringmount does not have to be positioned all the way forward on the dovetail...you do understand this, right? That fore/aft movement allows you to position the ring as needed to fit your scope. What makes this a PIA is beyond me. Some clearly don't understand how it operates.
- You don't need or want aftermarket bottom metal for a Sako 85. It's already got the highest quality, most well-machined bottom metal available for a rifle.
- McMillan makes stocks for the Sako 85. Is anyone really going to buy a Sako and put a B&C on it?
- I can only speak for the ML action, but my .25-06 has an absurd amount of extra room for COAL. Any cartridge in the .30-06 class could be loaded as long as you wanted.
+1 million I have a NIB Tikka T3x SS rifle that I bought my son a few months back. It is a good first rifle. he will inherit all my rifles and pistols and will have a very good collection at that point. I had an overpriced POS Sako A7Roughtech which I unloaded recently. The only things these rifles share with a Sako is the factory. I really am tired of Plastic and want no more. It is all Steel and maybe an aluminum floorplate or nothing.
I've got two Tikka's and a synthetic black. While the ejection has been fine, I have had accuracy issues that I attribute to bedding. I sent it to Beretta, but they said it passed their tests. They did adjust the headspace.
In regard to the Sako stock, mine is noticeably more flexible than the Tikka synthetic stock. I have a McMillan on order. I'm hoping it's the cure.
The Sako feeds perfectly every time. It's a feature I highly value. To me, the ,Sako doesn't balance as well as the Tikka. The front end is too light.
Given the current options in production rifles, It's about trade offs. I'm not sure I would get another Sako.
My only 85 is a 6.5x55. I can seat 130 grain NAB's .015 off the lands. The rifle consistently puts 5 of them well under a half inch. I have had zero problems of any kind with it and it would be the last of my CF hunting rifles to go.
Been hunting all over the Midwest with these. Ejection angle is a bit higher than most but if you have clearance they're about as good as a hunting rifle gets. Perfect? No but nothing is. These Sakos and the pre 64s would be the last I'd ever get rid of.
Nice looking rifles, but your scopes are riding way too high for My taste..........Hb
They work well for me but if you like em really low you'll kiss the scope on the way out. Head alignment is fine on these for me with both sporting "low" rings.
Nice looking rifles, but your scopes are riding way too high for My taste..........Hb
If it fits you, or can be fit w/ small stock dimensional changes, the Sako ergos work best with the classic technique of mounting the gun via the cheek, similar to mounting a fit upland shotgun. If you prefer the technique of mounting the gun via the shoulder, which forces you to stock crawl, so to then bring your head down to the stock, then likely the ergos of the Sako would be off.
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
Yeah i like my scopes mounted fairly low.......... I like the feel of a Sako 85 rifle but I had ejection issues out of My 30-06 length rifles if I used low Sako ringmounts or Talley low rings, but If a high mounted scope works for you I think it will greatly reduce the notorious Sako straight up ejection issue..........Good luck.......Hb
Nice looking rifles, but your scopes are riding way too high for My taste..........Hb
If it fits you, or can be fit w/ small stock dimensional changes, the Sako ergos work best with the classic technique of mounting the gun via the cheek, similar to mounting a fit upland shotgun. If you prefer the technique of mounting the gun via the shoulder, which forces you to stock crawl, so to then bring your head down to the stock, then likely the ergos of the Sako would be off.
I agree completely. Quick field shots are easy for me with the Finnlight stock especially. Quick snap up and the reticle is pretty close to where it needs to be. Comes up natural.
My previous posting of the 1-10 list was not to hate on the Sako 85 but to give a recap of the cons that had been offered to date. So I have been looking at this $1199 Sako 85 6.5x55 on EuroOptic for the last six months or so… What I desire is an accurate, reliable, synthetic stocked rifle that runs like a dream right out of the box; a rifle that shoots factory ammo so well I will have a really tough time developing a handload that can do better. A rifle that needs no tweaking out of the box. Other than mounting a scope and installing a sling I don’t want to have to do anything to the rifle for it to outperform my walnut stocked Ruger M77s and walnut M700 CDL. I have no intention of restocking it or replacing bottom metal. I will save those things for my M700. But I hate the thought of paying $1200 for a rifle that ain't a home run out of the box.
Mount a scope, affix a sling, grab a box of ammo and sight it in. Atleast in my experience, thats all that needs done.
For a quality heirloom piece that is reliable and not fussy, get a Pre-64 M70, prices on these are have not risen in the last 10 years and are inline with current sako cost.
Last edited by TomM1; 01/23/17.
Stuck in airports, Terrorized Sent to meetings, Hypnotized Over-exposed, Commercialized Handle me with Care... -Traveling Wilbury's
My previous posting of the 1-10 list was not to hate on the Sako 85 but to give a recap of the cons that had been offered to date. So I have been looking at this $1199 Sako 85 6.5x55 on EuroOptic for the last six months or so… What I desire is an accurate, reliable, synthetic stocked rifle that runs like a dream right out of the box; a rifle that shoots factory ammo so well I will have a really tough time developing a handload that can do better. A rifle that needs no tweaking out of the box. Other than mounting a scope and installing a sling I don’t want to have to do anything to the rifle for it to outperform my walnut stocked Ruger M77s and walnut M700 CDL. I have no intention of restocking it or replacing bottom metal. I will save those things for my M700. But I hate the thought of paying $1200 for a rifle that ain't a home run out of the box.
I just took delivery of a Sauer model 100 today. Mine is in .222, but they offer both the 6.5x55 and 6.5 Creedmore. Uses Rem 700 or Wthby MkV bases. I'm impressed with it. Shooting it tomorrow if possible. $618 at GunProCorporation. Check them out. Looks like Creedmore is in stock.
While I can't speak to others' experiences, I have had zero problems with my 85 Finnlight in 6.5x55. The Finnlight is identical to the Black Synthetic offered by Euro Optic other than the color.
Mine is accurate as well as easy to both shoot and carry. For me the stock is well done, and fits great. The grippy material is especially handy when hiking up and down the mountains in the rain (which is almost always the case during hunting season here). For me, it would not be worth it to replace the Finnlight stock at all (and I have rifles with McMillan, Rimrock, and ULA stocks, so have experience with those).
I also shoot 85's in 9.3x62 and 243, and those have also been accurate and trouble free out of the box.
There was also a thread on here where Phil Shoemaker said he recommended Sako rifles to potential clients coming to Alaska for his guided bear hunts.
$1199 is a great price for the Black Synthetic. Based on my experience, it would be a solid choice in 6.5x55.
The first time the ejection doesn't work properly on an important hunt, you will regret the day you bought it.
There are many, many accounts of such, and yes you can find videos all over UTube demonstrating such.
Let's see these videos all over the internet showing the many, many accounts demonstrating defective 85s that cannot eject a case.
There may be one guy showing the case tink the scope on the way out, but I'm not seeing this alleged volume of Sako 85 rifles that do not eject the case. There must be at least a bazillion Sako 85s around the world, so where are these many, many pissed off owners posting videos all over the internet of all these rifles that cannot eject.
Last edited by GaryVA; 01/23/17.
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
The first time the ejection doesn't work properly on an important hunt, you will regret the day you bought it.
There are many, many accounts of such, and yes you can find videos all over UTube demonstrating such.
They either clear or they don't. It's not something that will start happening out of nowhere on an important hunt. I've owned 6 85's of various action lengths. The ejection angle is consistent but higher than some other rifles.
My previous posting of the 1-10 list was not to hate on the Sako 85 but to give a recap of the cons that had been offered to date. So I have been looking at this $1199 Sako 85 6.5x55 on EuroOptic for the last six months or so… What I desire is an accurate, reliable, synthetic stocked rifle that runs like a dream right out of the box; a rifle that shoots factory ammo so well I will have a really tough time developing a handload that can do better. A rifle that needs no tweaking out of the box. Other than mounting a scope and installing a sling I don’t want to have to do anything to the rifle for it to outperform my walnut stocked Ruger M77s and walnut M700 CDL. I have no intention of restocking it or replacing bottom metal. I will save those things for my M700. But I hate the thought of paying $1200 for a rifle that ain't a home run out of the box.
The Steyr Pro Hunter is my fallback at the moment. Nowhere near as attractive looking a rifle as the Sako, but again, excellence in all respects right out of the box is what I seek.
Gary, I am not a stock crawler, but can benefit with low rings. I have medium height Talley lightweights on my M700 CDL. When standing and shouldering the rifle, when I form the cheekweld i have to adjust my head down a bit to obtain a good sight picture thru the 3-9x40 Conquest. The butt rides high on the shoulder, with about the top half inch of the pad not making contact. I need to order some low Talleys and experiment.
The Steyr Pro Hunter is my fallback at the moment. Nowhere near as attractive looking a rifle as the Sako, but again, excellence in all respects right out of the box is what I seek.
Gary, I am not a stock crawler, but can benefit with low rings. I have medium height Talley lightweights on my M700 CDL. When standing and shouldering the rifle, when I form the cheekweld i have to adjust my head down a bit to obtain a good sight picture thru the 3-9x40 Conquest. The butt rides high on the shoulder, with about the top half inch of the pad not making contact. I need to order some low Talleys and experiment.
More money but a Cooper Excalibur($1600-$1800) might also be worth looking into if the non bolt locking safety isn't a deal breaker.
I am of the personal opinion that these repeated and overstated claims do not reflect the correct functioning of the 85.
I see three different things taking place in these discussions:
First, being some having objection based upon bias. Which, is fine and dandy, but it is no different than bias toward one's wife and a particular tie.
Second, being a difference in technique. Some will mostly mount the rifle to their cheek, and not their shoulder, similar to mounting an upland gun. In this manner, for an averaged sized shooter, the Sako has favorable ergos. Likely best highlighted while swinging and mounting the gun on driven game. The Sako stock on the rifle in this discussion, using this technique, has my line of sight just a tad over 1.6" above the bore. Optilock Ringmounts place the center of my scope at 1.64" above the bore, and the fit is near as good as if it were custom. With my eyes closed, I can cheek the rifle, then open my eyes and be centered on the scope tube.
A different technique, used by many, is to mount the rifle into the shoulder. With this technique you must then do something with your head to obtain a spot or cheek weld. With this technique you crane the neck and stock crawl to bring your head down to the stock. This can easily lower your line of sight over the bore in comparison to the cheek technique. If this is you, and your aftermarket mount combinations are done so to match this stock crawl, then the Sako 85 will not be friendly towards you, as the end results will be the mounts and scope can crowd the port.
Third, being mechanical. I am of the opinion that if you are not crowding the port, and you experience the case ejecting straight up, through the grip of the claw extractor, out the top; then, the extractor must not have a proper grasp of the fired case, as it is being overpowered by the ejector. As already proven, and already noted, a number of things could weaken its hold on the case. Otherwise, the case should pop up, within the clearance against the bolt face, high enough to clear the lip of the port, and then it follows the path of least resistance, to be flipped toward the extractor at its position on the bolt face.
Never cleaning the long term shipping/storage coatings from these components, can gum the free movement of the claw, as can a machining burr, or metallic debris from cartridges. I have seen this throw off the ejection, with simply degreasing and cleaning the parts being the cure.
Having a weak spring can reduce hold from the claw. I have seen a fresh spring be the cure. In addition to replacement Sako length springs, oversized springs are also available.
Having a worn or damaged claw can also reduce its hold on the case. I have seen a worn/damaged claw be replaced to be the cure.
Lastly, cheap, worn, and/or out of spec cases can reduce the hold of the claw. Like any other mag box firearm, good ammo and good magazine, are crucial to good performance.
Outside of this, I have never seen an 85, that would eject straight up through the claw, ever. Not in person, and not in any video. There have been several, here, who claimed to have such 85s, which they claimed did this consistently, but, they always have refused to make a video of this in action. And when someone inspected the rifle, it could not be duplicated. The only issues found, were always with attempts to fit aftermarket components to further lower the scope, to fit an owner who preferred to stock crawl. Even then, the rifle would eject, but would dink the scope. At that point, full refunds were given.
Last edited by GaryVA; 01/24/17.
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
[Expensive firearms: went there with high end 1911s ($2K+) and decided reliable Colts ~ $1K were all I really wanted or needed. I have similar feelings towards rifles.]
Gary, your mechanical description above makes sense. Having never owned a Sako, or shouldered one, I can look at this unemotionally. It strikes me that the intrinsic engineering fundamentals of the Sako 85 design lead to some potential faults, which must be remedied as you describe. If all is in spec, the rifle runs like a raped ape. If out of spec, it appears that Beretta won't fix the problem, but a knowledgeable gunsmith can.
I am not a stock crawler, but can benefit with low rings. I have medium height Talley lightweights on my M700 CDL. When standing and shouldering the rifle, when I form the cheekweld i have to adjust my head down a bit to obtain a good sight picture thru the 3-9x40 Conquest. The butt rides high on the shoulder, with about the top half inch of the pad not making contact. I need to order some low Talleys and experiment.
Okay, but understand the fit of one stock, likely would be different than the fit of another stock design.
I doubt many fit their rifles anymore. Likely, most just adapt to the dimensions out the box. When fitting, a good method to nail down scope mount height, is with a sighting tube. There is a tiny hole, through the center of the tube. You must be centered on this tube, to see thru. You cheek the rifle, and set the tube where needed to match your natural line of sight. You then match your mounts, to place the optics at that height.
Last edited by GaryVA; 01/24/17.
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
The Steyr Pro Hunter is my fallback at the moment. Nowhere near as attractive looking a rifle as the Sako, but again, excellence in all respects right out of the box is what I seek.
Gary, I am not a stock crawler, but can benefit with low rings. I have medium height Talley lightweights on my M700 CDL. When standing and shouldering the rifle, when I form the cheekweld i have to adjust my head down a bit to obtain a good sight picture thru the 3-9x40 Conquest. The butt rides high on the shoulder, with about the top half inch of the pad not making contact. I need to order some low Talleys and experiment.
I have a Steyr 270WSM SS prohunter. I added the STeyr Rubber Recoil pad(25$) and removed one stock extension and it recoils like a BB gun. Using factory ammo 130 grain Winchester and Federal ballistic tips it is a hammer. The trigger is one of the best I have squeezed in a long long time.
[Expensive firearms: went there with high end 1911s ($2K+) and decided reliable Colts ~ $1K were all I really wanted or needed. I have similar feelings towards rifles.]
I personally have never owned a production rifle, 700, 550, 527, 98, 84, 70, 77, 7, etc., that did not require work, in time and money, to have that rifle working to my satisfaction. I have, however, had numerous Sako rifles, in numerous chambering, that worked to my satisfaction, straight out the box. So when all is said, some are more of a project in the box than others. In the end, they will all cost about the same in time and money.
Where my love for Sako ends, is the point where it does not fit and work out the box. If requiring major alterations, and Frankenstein mounts to fit and work, then it loses its "out the box" value. But if it fits and works out the box, it is of great value, worthy of a look, as it will hang with custom rifles costing several times as much. That is why I like the Sako. The dimensions they chose must have come from my identical twin. But, my fit may be different than your fit.
If all you want or need is a reliable rifle, then, get a Ruger, use their ringmounts, and top it off with a fixed power LEU scope. It will not be refined, it will not carry exceptionally well, but it would be tough and reliable. Even if it did not muster moa groups, you could fill truck beds full of game.
If you want refined, exceptional carry, moa accuracy, in a "non-Tikka/A7 type budget gun", then you'll need to invest more, in something like a Sako out the box, or a CZ, M70, 84, etc., as a project in a box. If wanting custom, then expect to at least double this added investment.
Last edited by GaryVA; 01/24/17.
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
I realize that those were loaded rounds, and as such were heavier than empty brass. I'll try spent cartridges in my three 85's and take a vid in the next couple days an post here.
That is a Nosler 48 Patriot chambered for the 7mm-08. I purchased pre-enjoyed from JG Raider.
I don't much care for sitting in enclosed blinds, and sometimes it rains. When I'm hunting in the rain I typically use a synthetic stocked rifle. This was the case in the photo
It is very accurate, reasonably light, and has an excellent trigger. I find myself reaching for it more and more when the weather is schitty!
I realize this is a Sako thread, but my way of a "tip of the hat" to Johnny. IMHO he is the real deal!
I want these guys to buy Remington's - they deserve them. You are going to drive the price up in the used market, so knock it off !
Yeh week claw springs let them fly a bit too much, and the heavier springs fix it.
Your no better than a mechanic that says, gee all your car needs is a good set of plugs, it's not a junker.... let me double the price I feel like paying more.
I want these guys to buy Remington's - they deserve them. All you are going to drive the price up in the used market, so zip it!
Yeh a weak claw springs let them fly up a bit too much, and the heavier springs fix it. (And don't tell them where to get them either).
You are no better than a mechanic that says, gee all your car needs is a good set of plugs, it's not a junker.... let me double how much I was going to pay you for it...
The first time the ejection doesn't work properly on an important hunt, you will regret the day you bought it.
There are many, many accounts of such, and yes you can find videos all over UTube demonstrating such.
Let's see these videos all over the internet showing the many, many accounts demonstrating defective 85s that cannot eject a case.
You are fully capable of going to UTube and searching "Sako 85 ejection" upon which you will be presented with many videos demonstrating the problem. To deny that it has been a consistent problem with the 85 is foolish. It may not be a problem in every rifle, but it has been in many rifles. If you call Sako customer service even they will discuss the issue with you and give you recommended "fixes" (while denying any and all culpability). You can like the rifle design all you want, but don't be silly about denying weaknesses of that design.
The first time the ejection doesn't work properly on an important hunt, you will regret the day you bought it.
There are many, many accounts of such, and yes you can find videos all over UTube demonstrating such.
They either clear or they don't. It's not something that will start happening out of nowhere on an important hunt. I've owned 6 85's of various action lengths. The ejection angle is consistent but higher than some other rifles.
Well, yes, actually it can crop up out of the blue. Due to many things, such as suggested below by Gary concerning dirtiness or different types of brass or even different bullet weights. The Sako 75 never had any of those problems that I know of.
The first time the ejection doesn't work properly on an important hunt, you will regret the day you bought it.
There are many, many accounts of such, and yes you can find videos all over UTube demonstrating such.
DD here brings up my situation of a year ago. I bought a Sako in .204 and .270 Win., NIB, with great wood and impeccable fit and finish. The ejector, located in the center bottom of the action would consistently eject brass into the windage turret - for both rifles. My scopes were one inch Leupies - nothing exotic. I solve the .204 problem by rotating the scope 180* to the left and every piece of .204 cleared just fine. That rifle was wickedly accurate with many 5 shot strings in one ragged hole at 100. I was going to do the same for the .270, which was also accurate but then decided this was stupid! I brought the rifles back to the lgs and explained the situation. They had heard this before. Sako will only say that if the brass clears the action, its not their fault that the scope is in the way. I went home and carefully took off the scope/rings/bases and put the rifles back in their boxes and traded them back at my lgs. What a shame - just darn nice rifles with an ejector in the wrong place. Maybe earlier models were engineered differently but I would steer clear of such a liability to proper function. On a "dgr" - no way in hell!
My home is the "sanctuary residence" for my firearms.
You are fully capable of going to UTube and searching "Sako 85 ejection" upon which you will be presented with many videos demonstrating the problem.
It's not there, sorry.
The video list shows an 85 varmint eject slow motion, the guy I noted and his 85 eject, geedubya's video, and then just a ton of people lovin' there Sako 85.
Not a single video demonstrating an 85 eject straight up through the claw, failing to eject the case. They all show an ejected case.
With a bazillion Sako 85 rifles sold all over the world, and even if 1 in every 1,000 were screwed up as bad as you guys claim, there would be scores of owners all over the planet posting videos of this defect. You guys are just overstating a mole hill to appear like a mountain. Now if you look up Remington 700, yes, then you will find a ton of videos reference ejection issues.
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
I see a problem. In the top video, the case, (.223 or .204) hits the bottom of the scope tube, bounces off the loading port and falls out. That is not a cleanly ejected case. The bottom one is the same. When the brass comes out in an erratic fashion, it has hit the scope tube in some way. Your video proves the point of an ejection problem.
Here you can clearly see the mouth of the case hit the body of the scope tube, pause a bit and luckily flops out. I am not going to claim all Sakos have an ejection problem but I saw enough to realize that my sample of two did not perform to my satisfaction.
Last edited by bigwhoop; 01/25/17.
My home is the "sanctuary residence" for my firearms.
Wow! Those slow mo videos are cool, you can really see the super high ejection trajectory, one looks like its ejecting straight up! I also took note of the the 50mm objective scope's thus the high mounted scopes, I know from experience what happens with low mounted scopes, its a real shame that such a fine rifle has this flawed design..........Hb
I have 6.5 Swede RCBS loading dies sitting on the shelf... I have over a hundred rounds of brass... I have a ready supply of Speer 140 grain hotcors...
But I have never paid more than $630 for a rifle, and this rifle will cost near double that...
base and rings will be pricey... i will need to acquire a new scope... i have no idea how reliable a Sako 85 is in cold and wet weather...
but I keep coming back to this rifle...
Buy it , give it a good work out. If you find you can not live with it, send it to me.I will give it a good Forever Home and the money you spent could be chalked up to a life lesson!!!!!!
1. Consider a Tikka instead: less expensive, better scope mounting system, stiffer action, same/better accuracy 2. Beretta support sucks 3. A Tikka is a noticeably lighter rifle to carry in the field 4. Scope mounting options are extremely limited for the Sako 5. Sako's tapered dovetail mounting scheme is a PIA 6. Some of the larger (above XS) action sizes have ejection issues 7. COAL can be restricted by the proprietary DBM 8. There is no aftermarket bottom metal available 9. Aftermarket stocks are very limited 10. The lug/block action to stock design is not appealing to some
Let me inject a little reality here, as some folks are clearly going off the deep end, and your list is far from factual:
- Scope mounting options are not limited. I have no idea what you're even talking about. The forward ringmount does not have to be positioned all the way forward on the dovetail...you do understand this, right? That fore/aft movement allows you to position the ring as needed to fit your scope. What makes this a PIA is beyond me. Some clearly don't understand how it operates.
- You don't need or want aftermarket bottom metal for a Sako 85. It's already got the highest quality, most well-machined bottom metal available for a rifle.
- McMillan makes stocks for the Sako 85. Is anyone really going to buy a Sako and put a B&C on it?
- I can only speak for the ML action, but my .25-06 has an absurd amount of extra room for COAL. Any cartridge in the .30-06 class could be loaded as long as you wanted.
My assessment was realistic, fair, and unbiased. In the case of my 85 Varmint 223 8 twist, the mag limits COAL to 2.28". I'm not about to get into an internet pissing contest over whether or not I'm justified in wanting a mag accommodating 2.50+" COAL and more than two aftermarket stock options for a heavy barreled 8 twist 223. Further, denying that scope mounting options are extremely limited is delusional. Finally, you might want to revisit your understanding of the positioning of a front optilock ring on the tapered dovetail.
GaryVA, You've almost done a fantastic job detailing constraints inherent in the Sako 85 design.
Originally Posted by 16penny
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
The tapered Sako dovetail is brilliant. Never heard anyone say anything bad about it till now.
Even Sako wouldn't compare the accuracy of a Tikka with a Sako. I have never met or shot a Tikka that shot any better than any other modern rifle, despite all the love: I dont doubt there are some accurate ones, but there are a lot of people riding on the coattails of some accuracy claims they read about on the internet who have never fired a group at 100 yards themselves. Anyway, they are only popular because they were considered a cheaper Sako to start with. And the Tikka just sucks frankly, with its pissy magazine, that makes that toy sproing noise whenever you push one of its three cartridges out, all that plastic, no way to top load, and its trigger that rusts inside the housing and gets sticky, the pot metal receiver, and the stainless steel that rusts if you wave a glass of water in front of it. I wouldn't even compare a T3 and a Sako 85.
But personally I would take the money for a new Sako 85 and buy an old Sako L61R, have some change for a scope and a better rifle too.
"A person that carries a cat home by the tail will receive information that will always be useful to him." Mark Twain
The only way to go straight up into the scope tube is from the case being pushed through the claw. I would look for a stuck, damaged, or worn extractor, or a bad spring. With a good, free moving Sako extractor, the mechanics are no different than a Mauser, except instead of bending a full length extractor by hand to adjust and tune tension, Sako uses a coil spring.
There are only three parts to this Sako extractor assembly: extractor, retainer pin, and spring. Gre-Tan HD standard length springs are $1.50 US each, their extended version are $2.50 US each. A 10-pack of the extended is $17.00 each. The pieces pop-in and out.
One, here, stopped the case tinking the scope by replacing the stock spring with a Gre-Tan. One, here, stopped the case from tinking the scope by merely degreasing and deburring the stock parts. Another, replaced a damaged extractor claw.
It is rather simple, pop out your extractor, pin and spring. Make sure the recess is burr free. Clean the pieces off with lighter fluid. Examine the claw for damage. Re-install parts and test tension. You should not be able to pull a fresh case straight up through the claw. If you can, and the claw looks good, the spring tension is weak. Gre-Tan makes a higher tension spring that can be cut to fit and/or the recess can be deepened for it to fit.
The standing ejector only pushes the case up within the free space between the case head and bolt face, until it runs into the claw. This allows the case to clear the rail, and at that point, the case follows the claw out. Some combinations may glance part of the scope body on the way out, but for the case to go straight up and straight through the bite of the claw, something is amiss. Mine, as an example, the claw bites hard enough to tear off a case head, were it stuck.
I am sorry you gave up an otherwise great rifle. This is something that is little more difficult than removing and replacing a sling. Beretta is not going to bother beyond ensuring that the rifle ejects. They are not going to concern themselves with those who wish to push the scope lower than factory designs, for personal reasons to execute variations of stock crawl. For those, they give a refund, which is well beyond what other manufacturers will readily offer.
These are the reasons why on my posts reference fit of an 85, I point out the difference in the technique of cheeking a rifle compared to the technique of stock crawl. Rifles are no different than boots and backpacks, what fits one person exceedingly well, may be a poor fit for another. For my personal use of the Sako, I've spent a good amount of time attempting to walk a new owner through some of these discussions, to include meeting them, so I can place my hands on their rifle, and to use the stuff I have on hand to make a fix. For those I cannot meet, or those who refuse, I always request they make a video to demonstrate the specific malfunction that they describe. What I have learned over all those years, the ones who habitually complain, refuse to meet and refuse to make the video. There complaints then evolve and embellish as the years go by. SO, I now take this stuff with a grain of salt, as I realize most of these complaints are BS, and are done so, not from lack of mechanical skill, or ignorance, but merely from the joy of pushing buttons and trolling threads.
Best
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
I would steer clear of such a liability to proper function. On a "dgr" - no way in hell!
You were on my original thread, many years ago, reference Phil Shoemaker testing a prototype of the Black Bear, I eventually had imported. Not to discount your experience, but Phil, is the only gun writer, who posts on this forum, who has proven to me, that he is beholden to no sponsor, and that his advice, is well grounded in first hand experience, and not skewed by bias of sponsorship. He is the only one, here, that meets this standard, in my book. In addition, Phil has my ear, when it comes to any dangerous game hunting advice. If he makes a recommendation, It carries great weight, in my book.
Phil has never steered me wrong with any advice or observation he has given. This includes with the below rifle, which at the time, was not even slated to be imported into the U.S.
That brings me to Beretta USA. I cannot agree with much of this repeated negative comments. Simple things, such as reading complaints of not getting information from Beretta on little stuff, like torque specs. Come to find, those who complained, never registered their guns, and never signed up with Beretta USA. I do, make an electronic account, and find all those questions already answered, at my finger tips. Even those not answered, when I ask, are generally answered by an expert within a few days, at most. On something difficult, like getting Beretta interested in changing their minds, and importing the rifle below, they did so. I wrote to them, they listened, they gave me positive feedback, and they responded in my favor. How can I complain about that, as that is rather great service, in my book.
So again, not trying to discount your feelings, but they do not carry as much weight, in my book.
Best
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
...I point out the difference in the technique of cheeking a rifle compared to the technique of stock crawl. Rifles are no different than boots and backpacks, what fits one person exceedingly well, may be a poor fit for another.
We can't all be 6' blondes.
Originally Posted by 16penny
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
I bought a brand new kodiak in .375 last year. Really nice rifle, seemed to be very well made. Would tell you how well it shot except:
It had ejection issues (same as everyone else is seeing). Brass would flip up at too steep and angle and clip the windage knob on the scope, and drop right back into the action. The blade ejector is located at 6 o'clock, which probably doesn't help with this issue.
Anyways, if you are planning to use iron sights, I would say go for it, but highly doubt you are based on caliber. I paid nearly $1800 for mine and was going to use it for hunting bears in AK and DG in Africa, but couldn't get over the ejection issues. The rifle was sold in short order.
Since 2006, you have made only 2 posts reference anything Sako.
1st, was one post to give a glowing report on a Kodiak.
Originally Posted by vanbuzen9
Just purchased a Sako 85 Kodiak and a T3 from eurooptic. They are running sales on T3's right now, probably to make room for the new T3x's.
Anyways, I'm happy with both purchases...without much load development, they both shoot less than an inch at 100.
The kodiak (.375 H&H) is about the perfect weight (9.5 lbs with full mag and 2-7x scope), and is very smooth and quiet cycling rounds. My only gripe is that it needs a better recoil pad, which I'll update with a decelerator eventually.
The tikka (.243) reminds me of any of the big brand cheap rifles that are being sold these days, until you work the action...very smooth. I really like the all plastic single stack magazine, feeds really well and is also very quiet and easy to load. Bought this gun primarily as a truck gun for shooting woodchucks at long range and eventually speed goat hunting.
Will be purchasing a few more Sako 85's, next on the list is a black synthetic (1099.99 at eurooptic) and probably one of the brown bear models.
2nd, the post today?????
Again, I will take your 2 posts with a grain of salt. I have run, the Kodiak, in both chamberings, 338 and 375. Granted, I cleaned, inspected, and lubed the rifles before use, but both ran very well, scoped, and unscoped. I no longer have them, because I favor my current 9.3x62, for liveliness in handling.
Last edited by GaryVA; 01/26/17.
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
They are not going to concern themselves with those who wish to push the scope lower than factory designs (BS by the way.They don't even have a "factory design"), for personal reasons to execute variations of stock crawl. For those, they give a refund, which is well beyond what other manufacturers will readily offer.
No they don't. Been there. That whole post is wrong in too many ways to argue. Below my complaint to CS:
Quote
Customer By Web Form 09/03/2014 06:14 PM Found out about the chronic ejection problems of the long action 85 after I had purchased one. Sure enough mine is affected. Sized and trimmed brass ejects straight up into the scope and bounces back down onto the follower. Some manage to rattle around and fall out. Sako Finnlight 30-06, LC69 full length sized & trimmed brass. Rifle is unfired. From what I've been able to read on the subject this issue seems to be related to extractor spring pressure, or the lack of. This isn't a new problem. I have researched enough to know there are a substantial number of rifles and owners affected going back pretty much to the 85 inception. None are happy and some are VERY unhappy. FYI I have read multiple reports of service center repairs that did not resolve the problem. The only successful repairs I am aware of were by owners replacing the coil spriing with a stronger version allowing the extractor to override ejector pressure and pull the cartridge case to the side for normal function. Please do not tell me you have never heard of this. So my question is have you yet come up with a fix? If it is a simple parts swap I'll be more than happy to do it myself or have my local gunsmith do it. I would prefer to keep it local if possible. I appreciate your forthcoming response.
Question Reference #140903-000009 Product Level 1: Rifles and Carbines Product Level 2: Sako 85 Category Level 1: Consumer Date Created: 09/03/2014 06:14 PM Last Updated: 09/05/2014 03:41 PM Status: Solved
Their reply:
Quote
Thank you for contacting Beretta Customer Support.
Beretta's Service Position on this issue is shown below:
"Occasionally, we receive customer complaints regarding Sako 85 rifles ejecting spent cases that either strike the scope or strike the scope turret and fall back inside the action of the rifle. This situation is predominately caused by both the scope mounts and type of scope (particularly scopes with extended turrets) installed on the rifle. A secondary consideration is how rigorously the bolt is operated by the user.
Beretta will not consider rifles that exhibit the condition above to be a warranty issue. Provided that the rifle fully extracts and ejects the spent casing, the rifle will be considered functional and serviceable. Sako cannot anticipate every possible scope mounting configuration when designing their rifles. Since the selection and installation of the scope and mounts are determined by the owner, it is the owners responsibility to ensure that the system will not interfere with the operation of the rifle."
Regarding your specific inquiry, there is no "fix" for this condition as the ejector is not adjustable in this rifle. The comments that you have read regarding "extractor spring pressure" are not valid. The spring pressure does not affect the ejection trajectory of the casing. The bottom line is if the rifle extracts and ejects the casing, it is considered functional. Finally, in spite of the Internet chatter, a review of the service history for the Sako 85 rifle over the past 24 months indicates that a fraction of a percent of the rifles sold are returned for service for this issue. Our suggestion would be to experiment with different scope mounts and/or type of scope to determine what will work best on your rifle.
Best regards,
Beretta Customer Support
Most of these rifles work. A lot don't. Anybody that wants to buy one should. To the OP, sorry your thread ended up this way. But rest assured those of us who identified this problem here aren't liars or troublemakers, even Steelhead. The problem exists on a significant number of rifles and Beretta is not about to start a recall/repair. It's easier to blame the user. For anybody not sleeping at night just google Sako 85 Problems or Sako 85 Ejection. Follow all the links and you'll never get done.
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version) "And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him."
Since 2006, you have made only 2 posts reference anything Sako.
1st, was one post to give a glowing report on a Kodiak.
Originally Posted by vanbuzen9
Just purchased a Sako 85 Kodiak and a T3 from eurooptic. They are running sales on T3's right now, probably to make room for the new T3x's.
Anyways, I'm happy with both purchases...without much load development, they both shoot less than an inch at 100.
The kodiak (.375 H&H) is about the perfect weight (9.5 lbs with full mag and 2-7x scope), and is very smooth and quiet cycling rounds. My only gripe is that it needs a better recoil pad, which I'll update with a decelerator eventually.
The tikka (.243) reminds me of any of the big brand cheap rifles that are being sold these days, until you work the action...very smooth. I really like the all plastic single stack magazine, feeds really well and is also very quiet and easy to load. Bought this gun primarily as a truck gun for shooting woodchucks at long range and eventually speed goat hunting.
Will be purchasing a few more Sako 85's, next on the list is a black synthetic (1099.99 at eurooptic) and probably one of the brown bear models.
2nd, the post today?????
Again, I will take your 2 posts with a grain of salt. I have run, the Kodiak, in both chamberings, 338 and 375. Granted, I cleaned, inspected, and lubed the rifles before use, but both ran very well, scoped, and unscoped. I no longer have them, because I favor my current 9.3x62, for liveliness in handling.
Characterizing VB9's post— the one you bird-dogged and labeled "1st"— as "glowing" is beyond hyperbole, unless you failed to quote it in its entirety.
You go on about Sakos like you're Ringman defending Young Earth Creationism. What gives?
Originally Posted by 16penny
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
Shootem, I had a similar response from Beretta CS when I sent back a Model 85 Finnlight .270 Win with the ejection issue, they more or less told me the rifle was not defective as it would extract and eject a spent case (with no scope installed) they sent the rifle back to Me and there was absolutely no full refund offered (that was hilarious by the way) ......so I feel your pain................Hb
There's got to be a reason Sako offers more high power rifle models with iron sights than any gun manufacturer in modern history. Those are their repeaters.
Originally Posted by 16penny
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
Since 2006, you have made only 2 posts reference anything Sako.
1st, was one post to give a glowing report on a Kodiak.
Originally Posted by vanbuzen9
Just purchased a Sako 85 Kodiak and a T3 from eurooptic. They are running sales on T3's right now, probably to make room for the new T3x's.
Anyways, I'm happy with both purchases...without much load development, they both shoot less than an inch at 100.
The kodiak (.375 H&H) is about the perfect weight (9.5 lbs with full mag and 2-7x scope), and is very smooth and quiet cycling rounds. My only gripe is that it needs a better recoil pad, which I'll update with a decelerator eventually.
The tikka (.243) reminds me of any of the big brand cheap rifles that are being sold these days, until you work the action...very smooth. I really like the all plastic single stack magazine, feeds really well and is also very quiet and easy to load. Bought this gun primarily as a truck gun for shooting woodchucks at long range and eventually speed goat hunting.
Will be purchasing a few more Sako 85's, next on the list is a black synthetic (1099.99 at eurooptic) and probably one of the brown bear models.
2nd, the post today?????
Again, I will take your 2 posts with a grain of salt. I have run, the Kodiak, in both chamberings, 338 and 375. Granted, I cleaned, inspected, and lubed the rifles before use, but both ran very well, scoped, and unscoped. I no longer have them, because I favor my current 9.3x62, for liveliness in handling.
Good job searching on that one. My original post still stands about the rifle. I shot it at the range without a scope to confirm irons were on...shot well and loved how it handled. Took it back home, mounted a scope to report weight, and posted about it here. Took it back out with a scope, set in medium sako rings, and had ejection failures 90% of the time. Just wanted to post my revised findings here in case people on this site were looking at this rifle for dangerous game. Non-dangerous game? No issues, just rotate the rifle 90 degrees after each shot to clear the spent brass from the action.
Wow! Thats some beautiful rifles.....Congrats!....My first Sako rifle was a 491 Hunter in 7mm-08, it was a fantastic rifle though a little heafty........Hb
1. Consider a Tikka instead: less expensive, better scope mounting system, stiffer action, same/better accuracy 2. Beretta support sucks 3. A Tikka is a noticeably lighter rifle to carry in the field 4. Scope mounting options are extremely limited for the Sako 5. Sako's tapered dovetail mounting scheme is a PIA 6. Some of the larger (above XS) action sizes have ejection issues 7. COAL can be restricted by the proprietary DBM 8. There is no aftermarket bottom metal available 9. Aftermarket stocks are very limited 10. The lug/block action to stock design is not appealing to some
Let me inject a little reality here, as some folks are clearly going off the deep end, and your list is far from factual:
- Scope mounting options are not limited. I have no idea what you're even talking about. The forward ringmount does not have to be positioned all the way forward on the dovetail...you do understand this, right? That fore/aft movement allows you to position the ring as needed to fit your scope. What makes this a PIA is beyond me. Some clearly don't understand how it operates.
- You don't need or want aftermarket bottom metal for a Sako 85. It's already got the highest quality, most well-machined bottom metal available for a rifle.
- McMillan makes stocks for the Sako 85. Is anyone really going to buy a Sako and put a B&C on it?
- I can only speak for the ML action, but my .25-06 has an absurd amount of extra room for COAL. Any cartridge in the .30-06 class could be loaded as long as you wanted.
My assessment was realistic, fair, and unbiased. In the case of my 85 Varmint 223 8 twist, the mag limits COAL to 2.28". I'm not about to get into an internet pissing contest over whether or not I'm justified in wanting a mag accommodating 2.50+" COAL and more than two aftermarket stock options for a heavy barreled 8 twist 223. Further, denying that scope mounting options are extremely limited is delusional. Finally, you might want to revisit your understanding of the positioning of a front optilock ring on the tapered dovetail.
GaryVA, You've almost done a fantastic job detailing constraints inherent in the Sako 85 design.
Kingston, one of us does need to revisit his understanding of the Optilock Ringmount, but it's not me. Here are three photos of the same front ringmount at three different positions on the Sako dovetail. Why are you so confused? It's not a matter of just pushing the ringmount all the way forward on the dovetail...the Ringmount is adjustable fore and aft; this allows you to center the reticle and adjust for coarse windage, and it also allows you to position the ring for length of main tube.
Someone may make offset Optilock ring inserts, not sure, but the inserts can be shimmed, provided you do so in a manner they can still pivot, which is how they function to center the scope.
I set the spacing as needed, shim to square up, then use the dovetail to make small corrections. Works very well.
Last edited by GaryVA; 01/26/17.
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
Not sure I follow, but there is a short base, a long base, an extended base, a quick release base, and then the straight up mount. There are five ring heights, with the Ringmounts being the fifth. The front mount will clamp anywhere upon the front bridge dovetail, and the rear mount rests on the rear bridge at the limiter pin. But, if you are not addressing iron sights, and have no need for the limiter pin, it can be removed, and you can then clamp the rear mount any place you desire on that dovetail.
Not sure many actually fit mounts anymore, as it sounds, here, that most just put the parts together like plumbing. But, if you hand fit the parts, and make corrections for scope adjustment, the Optilocks are easily shimmed at the ring insert and/or ring-base union, or the clamp can be machined. The mounts can then be removed and replaced without losing that fit.
If this is not enough for you, then a rail could be installed. The above Optilocks are also available with a rail base. You are not limited to the position of fixed holes in a receiver.
Also, not sure who first used the concept of a delrin "ball bearing" ring insert, Burris, Sako, or someone else...but the pivoting, self centering insert is genius.
Last edited by GaryVA; 01/26/17.
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
Trying to wade through all the emotions being displayed, and stick with facts.
There is a design, with use of factory mounts as noted above.
Beretta USA had been good with full refunds, on new rifles. Example of how quick:
Originally Posted by Gramps2
04/24/12 - I would like to hear from Sako 85 owners that have had ejection problems (case hitting bottom of scope) with their rifles. Especially those that have been sent back to Beretta or one of their outsourced authorized repair dealers.
04/25/12 - Thanks for listening to me vent guys, gonna have some breakfast, then take on Beretta.
04/25/12 - Heard back from Beretta today. Their fix was to slide scope fore and aft until "right position" for ejection is found. What I found is this fix only makes it hit my scope with the very edge of the case mouth, or it hits my scope with the shoulder of the case. Let Beretta know this afternoon that this did not solve problem, and that I wanted gun fixed right, another gun, or my money refunded.
05/03/12 - Shipped my 85 Sako Finnlight to Beretta USA in Md. this morning. Yesterday I was actually able to talk to a former jarhead like myself, which made me feel somewhat more optimistic.
05/16/12 - Got a call from Beretta USA this morning. Very nice young lady informed me that I would be receiving a check for the price I paid for my 85 Finnlight ST .270 Win. Can't ask for more than that.
Everyone have a great day!
G2
I am familiar with your particular rifle, but, I am unfamiliar with any written request you made, which was denied.
As to your rifle, those comments were made in reference to it being tested and shown to function.
An example, where I am actually named, in one of these Beretta discussions:
The bottom of the bolt face is completely open. This is necessary for the controlled feed of the 85. As GaryVA pointed out, only the extractor is holding the case being pulled rearward. If extractor/spring are not strong enough the case may slide down face of bolt causing front of case to stick upward.
And here is an example of replacing a weak spring, with a stronger Gre-tan, which gave the extractor a stronger hold on the case:
Originally Posted by LRCampos
Folks, As I posted earlier, my Sako 85 in 30-06 was having problems ejecting empty brass. Not only it hits the botton of the scope (mostly the right turret), but sometimes when extracting the extractor slipped on brass rim and left the brass on top of the magazine, freely.
I took one of the springs and compared with the Sako original spring and noticed that the Gre Tan springs are much longer... may be 3 turns of spring longer. Also, they seemed much more stronger.
I tried to install the Gre Tan spring but it is a little longer and even compressing it, there will be about hair of the extractor pin that will not go inside the pin hole to allow the original Sako extractor to fit its place. I cut only one turn to allow it to fit completely inside its hole on the bolt.
Now, it was very easy to just snap everything inside the bolt. First thing I noticed is that the extractor now has much more pressure against the side of the bolt, that is a good thing. But the final test is really how it would work ejecting new and used empty brass...
And all I can say is that I was amazed at HOW WELL it works!!! Every single of the more than 100 empty brass (new, full lenghted resized, fired etc) I put through my Sako 85, ejected 100%!!!
Some of the brass still hit the botton of the scope, but it flyes away from the action! This was not happening before the new spring!
Most of the brass was really ejected, like it had a plunger ejector. I can move the bolt slow or fast and everything works 100%. Not a single brass (I tried loaded rounds too and it worked perfect) was left inside the action, over the magazine. All of them was spitted out of the action!
Now, I have a 100% functional and beautifull Sako 85 Classic in 30-06 !!! Kampfeld made some custom touches, so it is a real nice rifle that now works 100%.
I am very happy and spent only about U$10,00 to fix something that Beretta SHOULD had done years ago.
Here it is:
And with a McMillan Classic stock I ordered from McMillan, for places where put its beautifull walnut stock is not recomended (someplaces here where the european warthog - sus scrofa - hides...):
Here the parts I used:
As you can see on the photo above, the Brownells part number for the spring kit is # 309-000-009.
I think that, for the price of the Gre Tan Extended Spring Kit, it is worth to try and see if it works on your rifles too. I hope it works for you!
LRCampos.
It is evident that some are frustrated over this, hence, the long threads and emotional responses. I understand that, but I am wading through this to stick with facts, not emotions.
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
The fact is that the only time I ever dealt with Beretta CS they denied any wrong on their part when it was clearly their fault.
I bought a new 75 Finnlight from a dealer. Some factory ammo would not chamber in the gun.Not just some brands but several rounds from every brand I tried(4-6).
My dealer called them and sent the gun back in for me. I got the gun back and upon unpackaging it discovered that the receiver was terribly scared. It looked like it had been clamped into an unpadded vice,and had slipped a couple times in that vice. It looked really bad.
My dealer called Beretta but they denied any wrong and claimed that the bolt had come loose in the package and done that damage. The bolt didn't have a mark on it and I don't think it would even be possible to so beat up the receiver with the bolt,even if I tried. This was not a couple scratches or dings.
My dealer just refunded my money since he had packaged the gun and sent it for me. Beretta simply didn't take responsibility for their screw up.
I see others have come forward with their ejection problems - with the Sako, that is. It never crossed my mind that a rifle with a significant price and high regard could have such a problem. At consideration expense, I learned a lesson that will only let me "admire" Sakos at arms length and not in my safe. If there are other models or eras that deliver dependable rifles, fine. I am not going to call anyone here a liar. But I know what I saw with two rifles. I refuse to alter my ring height or tube placement to accommodate a design that ejects brass into the rifle scope. To me that is a fundamental flaw that cannot be tolerated.
So to the original OP's question, buyer beware.
My home is the "sanctuary residence" for my firearms.
Not sure I follow, but there is a short base, a long base, an extended base, a quick release base, and then the straight up mount. There are five ring heights, with the Ringmounts being the fifth. The front mount will clamp anywhere upon the front bridge dovetail, and the rear mount rests on the rear bridge at the limiter pin. But, if you are not addressing iron sights, and have no need for the limiter pin, it can be removed, and you can then clamp the rear mount any place you desire on that dovetail.
Not sure many actually fit mounts anymore, as it sounds, here, that most just put the parts together like plumbing. But, if you hand fit the parts, and make corrections for scope adjustment, the Optilocks are easily shimmed at the ring insert and/or ring-base union, or the clamp can be machined. The mounts can then be removed and replaced without losing that fit.
If this is not enough for you, then a rail could be installed. The above Optilocks are also available with a rail base. You are not limited to the position of fixed holes in a receiver.
Also, not sure who first used the concept of a delrin "ball bearing" ring insert, Burris, Sako, or someone else...but the pivoting, self centering insert is genius.
There is only one position on the tapered dovetail where a pair of Sako Optilock rings will be both, mounted directly over the bore and parallel to the bore. The distance between the rings is not variable.
Increasing or decreasing that distance requires the use of 2 piece Optilocks with either the "short", "long", or "extended" base. While Sako specifies which action size to match each of these bases with, mismatching them with action sizes outside Sako specifications can theoretically add two alternative ring spacing options for any particular action size. While this is possible, it was not Sako's intention and still results in an overly complex proprietary optic mounting system. Further, despite all the pieces you've listed, optic fitment remains quite limited by modern standards.
The split Delrin heim bushing is a design element, which has proven to be best suited to fooling folks into mounting rifle optics off bore axis on Sako rifles without mangling scope tubes.
Your suggesting the use of shims only further supports my initial supposition that "Scope mounting options are extremely limited for the Sako and that Sako's tapered dovetail mounting scheme is a PIA".
I stand by my earnest assessment and suggest you revisit your understanding of Sako's proprietary optics mounting system, particularly in its most contemporary iteration.
Originally Posted by 16penny
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
this thread enlightened me to a huge degree and i appreciate it very much from all the posters. there are limitations and compromises imposed by the underlying engineering design of any machine, and I see this as a foible of the Sako 85. If I bought the rifle, I would have to name it "Achilles".
This discussion causes me to look upon my M700s and M77s in a new favorable light.
Funny you mention the Steyr Pro Hunter... I had my eyes on them on GB in 280 Remington and the last one sold a few months back. I called Steyr USA and... "there ain't no more 280s to be had". Lick on me for not pulling the trigger on one when they were still to be had... Haven't seen one in 6.5x55 in awhile...
Not sure I follow, but there is a short base, a long base, an extended base, a quick release base, and then the straight up mount. There are five ring heights, with the Ringmounts being the fifth. The front mount will clamp anywhere upon the front bridge dovetail, and the rear mount rests on the rear bridge at the limiter pin. But, if you are not addressing iron sights, and have no need for the limiter pin, it can be removed, and you can then clamp the rear mount any place you desire on that dovetail.
Not sure many actually fit mounts anymore, as it sounds, here, that most just put the parts together like plumbing. But, if you hand fit the parts, and make corrections for scope adjustment, the Optilocks are easily shimmed at the ring insert and/or ring-base union, or the clamp can be machined. The mounts can then be removed and replaced without losing that fit.
If this is not enough for you, then a rail could be installed. The above Optilocks are also available with a rail base. You are not limited to the position of fixed holes in a receiver.
Also, not sure who first used the concept of a delrin "ball bearing" ring insert, Burris, Sako, or someone else...but the pivoting, self centering insert is genius.
There is only one position on the tapered dovetail where a pair of Sako Optilock rings will be both, mounted directly over the bore and parallel to the bore. The distance between the rings is not variable.
Increasing or decreasing that distance requires the use of 2 piece Optilocks with either the "short", "long", or "extended" base. While Sako specifies which action size to match each of these bases with, mismatching them with action sizes outside Sako specifications can theoretically add two alternative ring spacing options for any particular action size. While this is possible, it was not Sako's intention and still results in an overly complex proprietary optic mounting system. Further, despite all the pieces you've listed, optic fitment remains quite limited by modern standards.
The split Delrin heim bushing is a design element, which has proven to be best suited to fooling folks into mounting rifle optics off bore axis on Sako rifles without mangling scope tubes.
Your suggesting the use of shims only further supports my initial supposition that "Scope mounting options are extremely limited for the Sako and that Sako's tapered dovetail mounting scheme is a PIA".
I stand by my earnest assessment and suggest you revisit your understanding of Sako's proprietary optics mounting system, particularly in its most contemporary iteration.
So you're a contrarian. That's cool. Whatever blows your skirt up.
If the scope being mounted precisely over the bore's axis is an absolute requirement for you, then that's a constraint that you've placed on the system...not an inherent limitation of the design. You may not know this Kingston, but scopes have internal windage adjustment. And, you don't own any rifles upon which the scope is mounted precisely over the bore's axis (whether you realize it or not). If you're super anal retentive (and methinks that's clear), the aforementioned Delrin inserts are perfectly functional--as are the extended bases.
Gee...seems to me that you can accommodate different main tube lengths in more than one manner.
Not sure I follow, but there is a short base, a long base, an extended base, a quick release base, and then the straight up mount. There are five ring heights, with the Ringmounts being the fifth. The front mount will clamp anywhere upon the front bridge dovetail, and the rear mount rests on the rear bridge at the limiter pin. But, if you are not addressing iron sights, and have no need for the limiter pin, it can be removed, and you can then clamp the rear mount any place you desire on that dovetail.
Not sure many actually fit mounts anymore, as it sounds, here, that most just put the parts together like plumbing. But, if you hand fit the parts, and make corrections for scope adjustment, the Optilocks are easily shimmed at the ring insert and/or ring-base union, or the clamp can be machined. The mounts can then be removed and replaced without losing that fit.
If this is not enough for you, then a rail could be installed. The above Optilocks are also available with a rail base. You are not limited to the position of fixed holes in a receiver.
Also, not sure who first used the concept of a delrin "ball bearing" ring insert, Burris, Sako, or someone else...but the pivoting, self centering insert is genius.
There is only one position on the tapered dovetail where a pair of Sako Optilock rings will be both, mounted directly over the bore and parallel to the bore. The distance between the rings is not variable.
Increasing or decreasing that distance requires the use of 2 piece Optilocks with either the "short", "long", or "extended" base. While Sako specifies which action size to match each of these bases with, mismatching them with action sizes outside Sako specifications can theoretically add two alternative ring spacing options for any particular action size. While this is possible, it was not Sako's intention and still results in an overly complex proprietary optic mounting system. Further, despite all the pieces you've listed, optic fitment remains quite limited by modern standards.
The split Delrin heim bushing is a design element, which has proven to be best suited to fooling folks into mounting rifle optics off bore axis on Sako rifles without mangling scope tubes.
Your suggesting the use of shims only further supports my initial supposition that "Scope mounting options are extremely limited for the Sako and that Sako's tapered dovetail mounting scheme is a PIA".
I stand by my earnest assessment and suggest you revisit your understanding of Sako's proprietary optics mounting system, particularly in its most contemporary iteration.
So you're a contrarian. That's cool. Whatever blows your skirt up.
If the scope being mounted precisely over the bore's axis is an absolute requirement for you, then that's a constraint that you've placed on the system...not an inherent limitation of the design. You may not know this Kingston, but scopes have internal windage adjustment. And, you don't own any rifles upon which the scope is mounted precisely over the bore's axis (whether you realize it or not). If you're super anal retentive (and methinks that's clear), the aforementioned Delrin inserts are perfectly functional--as are the extended bases.
Gee...seems to me that you can accommodate different main tube lengths in more than one manner.
You can't be serious...
Originally Posted by 16penny
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
No different than adding moa into a base to maximize use of elevation adjustment for distance shooting, there are multiple gunsmithing options, when fitting, for making windage corrections to center internal scope adjustments, beyond that of moving the front mount fore and aft alone. So the scope can be squared up, in more than one location with the front mount. And when you include movement of the rear mount, without limiter, than you have a range of spacing, not just one spot, where the scope can be squared.
I'm starting to believe you are Flave's twin, trying to get a rise.
Last edited by GaryVA; 01/27/17.
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
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