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Originally Posted by helidriver72
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by helidriver72
If you do bring a sidearm don't let it lull you into a false sense of security. Always bring your rifle with you (even if it's a 6.5 wiz bang). Lots of people get tempted to leave the rifle in camp because they have a handgun, especially when packing meat. I'd way rather have a .243 than the biggest handgun they make. Anybody wanna do the math for me?
You are wrong! I'd rather have my big bore revolver than even a 338 win. BTDT you have no idea how effective they are on game.
Math will not get it done, but a big heavy bullet from a big bore revolver will.

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The title of the thread is bear defense, not handgun hunting. Much respect on your handgun kills. But I bet if you needed to stop an aggressive bear at 20 feet you'd be reaching for the .338....


They bear on the left in the picture came in on me while I was working the moose kill and my rifle was out of reach. The 475 was on me in my shoulder holster.

I know exactly what this thread is about and you should not assume. If you'd ever used one of these big bore revolvers you'd know they posses the terminal performance to get the job done.




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When I moved to Alaska in the mid 90's the first thing I did was buy a Colt Anaconda. I hauled that bastard everywhere with me because I was certain there were bears behind every tree just waiting to eat me. Two years later I realized that bears were a non issue and quit toting that thing around and sold it. If you are hunting by yourself in an area where bears are prevalent I would think about having a capable sidearm but when hunting with others I just see it as unnecessary and just one more thing to carry. I've had eye opening close encounters with bears all over Alaska, and IME using your head and paying attention to your surroundings always worked for me.

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Originally Posted by AlaskaCub
When I moved to Alaska in the mid 90's the first thing I did was buy a Colt Anaconda. I hauled that bastard everywhere with me because I was certain there were bears behind every tree just waiting to eat me. Two years later I realized that bears were a non issue and quit toting that thing around and sold it. If you are hunting by yourself in an area where bears are prevalent I would think about having a capable sidearm but when hunting with others I just see it as unnecessary and just one more thing to carry. I've had eye opening close encounters with bears all over Alaska, and IME using your head and paying attention to your surroundings always worked for me.


All of my hunting was fly in and drop off. Sleep in a 2-3 man dome tent and in a sleeping bag your not going to get a rifle into play if a bear gets on you. A handgun is a very viable option.



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[quote=Uncas]As always something you are full competent with will be an asset.
A shiney new what-have-you will be a liability in all likely hood.
Bears do not like to be shot in the head with anything. A fully committed bear is a management problem second to none.
No good answer, No perfect answer. Just do not do anything wrong and keep that rifle in your grasp.

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Jotted this thought seven pages ago. I do not feel much has been added.


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Originally Posted by AlaskaCub
When I moved to Alaska in the mid 90's the first thing I did was buy a Colt Anaconda. I hauled that bastard everywhere with me because I was certain there were bears behind every tree just waiting to eat me. Two years later I realized that bears were a non issue and quit toting that thing around and sold it. If you are hunting by yourself in an area where bears are prevalent I would think about having a capable sidearm but when hunting with others I just see it as unnecessary and just one more thing to carry. I've had eye opening close encounters with bears all over Alaska, and IME using your head and paying attention to your surroundings always worked for me.


I agree almost 100%!! We actually carry a handgun only when not hunting because I don't trust a close moose encounter more...

And you never know when you run into a 2 legged animal that has issues.

So we'll always be carrying something, for some situation. But it won't be overly heavy thats for sure, and its not going to be one of the huge uncontrollable rounds either.


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Originally Posted by AlaskaCub
When I moved to Alaska in the mid 90's the first thing I did was buy a Colt Anaconda. I hauled that bastard everywhere with me because I was certain there were bears behind every tree just waiting to eat me. Two years later I realized that bears were a non issue and quit toting that thing around and sold it. If you are hunting by yourself in an area where bears are prevalent I would think about having a capable sidearm but when hunting with others I just see it as unnecessary and just one more thing to carry. I've had eye opening close encounters with bears all over Alaska, and IME using your head and paying attention to your surroundings always worked for me.


ROFL! sounds just like me, for a while I had a model 629 S&W and also a Mossberg 12 ga for bear protection, but I ended up selling both, having never fired either one. Too heavy to carry. I had a few close encounters with with brownies at maybe 3x flyrod length, but was never threatened by a bear in 6 years.

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Originally Posted by helidriver72
If you do bring a sidearm don't let it lull you into a false sense of security. Always bring your rifle with you (even if it's a 6.5 wiz bang). Lots of people get tempted to leave the rifle in camp because they have a handgun, especially when packing meat. I'd way rather have a .243 than the biggest handgun they make. Anybody wanna do the math for me?





Originally Posted by 458Win
In the past 33 years of living and guiding on the Alaska peninsula from our families homestead I have never had to kill a bear in defense of live or property. DLP as the state refers to it.
Two days ago I was guiding a married couple and we bumped into a bear at close range on our way to the fishing stream. We yelled and it ran but circled around and then charged. The couple were 10 or 12 feet behind me and the bear came out of the brush so close it was within 3 feet of my clients before I could shoot. They both intentionally fell to the ground just before I shot the bear behind the shoulder. It immediately spun and I continued shooting, all the while keeping the position of my clients in perspective. After six quick hits the bear turned and ran 20 yards and died .

We were planning on a quick couple hours of fishing and rather than packing my normal S&W 44 Mtn gun I was packing a S&W 3953 dao auto with 147 gr Buffalo Bore 9mm ammo.



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Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by helidriver72
If you do bring a sidearm don't let it lull you into a false sense of security. Always bring your rifle with you (even if it's a 6.5 wiz bang). Lots of people get tempted to leave the rifle in camp because they have a handgun, especially when packing meat. I'd way rather have a .243 than the biggest handgun they make. Anybody wanna do the math for me?





Originally Posted by 458Win
In the past 33 years of living and guiding on the Alaska peninsula from our families homestead I have never had to kill a bear in defense of live or property. DLP as the state refers to it.
Two days ago I was guiding a married couple and we bumped into a bear at close range on our way to the fishing stream. We yelled and it ran but circled around and then charged. The couple were 10 or 12 feet behind me and the bear came out of the brush so close it was within 3 feet of my clients before I could shoot. They both intentionally fell to the ground just before I shot the bear behind the shoulder. It immediately spun and I continued shooting, all the while keeping the position of my clients in perspective. After six quick hits the bear turned and ran 20 yards and died .

We were planning on a quick couple hours of fishing and rather than packing my normal S&W 44 Mtn gun I was packing a S&W 3953 dao auto with 147 gr Buffalo Bore 9mm ammo.



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I bet if you asked Phil if he knew he would be in the same situation tomorrow he would bring a long gun.........

There's a reason myself and all the other Brown Bear guides I know pack rifles.


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If you read the whole thread you'll find that Phil carries a handgun quite a bit for bear protection.

The point is protection and for that you need a gun and no one can have a rifle available 100% of the time and that is where a handgun comes into play.



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Originally Posted by helidriver72
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by helidriver72
If you do bring a sidearm don't let it lull you into a false sense of security. Always bring your rifle with you (even if it's a 6.5 wiz bang). Lots of people get tempted to leave the rifle in camp because they have a handgun, especially when packing meat. I'd way rather have a .243 than the biggest handgun they make. Anybody wanna do the math for me?





Originally Posted by 458Win
In the past 33 years of living and guiding on the Alaska peninsula from our families homestead I have never had to kill a bear in defense of live or property. DLP as the state refers to it.
Two days ago I was guiding a married couple and we bumped into a bear at close range on our way to the fishing stream. We yelled and it ran but circled around and then charged. The couple were 10 or 12 feet behind me and the bear came out of the brush so close it was within 3 feet of my clients before I could shoot. They both intentionally fell to the ground just before I shot the bear behind the shoulder. It immediately spun and I continued shooting, all the while keeping the position of my clients in perspective. After six quick hits the bear turned and ran 20 yards and died .

We were planning on a quick couple hours of fishing and rather than packing my normal S&W 44 Mtn gun I was packing a S&W 3953 dao auto with 147 gr Buffalo Bore 9mm ammo.



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I bet if you asked Phil if he knew he would be in the same situation tomorrow he would bring a long gun.........

There's a reason myself and all the other Brown Bear guides I know pack rifles.


Hell, if I knew I was going into the same situation I wouldn't go !! But when I am tracking wounded bears I feel perfectly armed with my 458. However in the situation this past summer that might have posed some pass through issues and endangered the clients.
Every situation is different and you can't plan for all of them. You just have to deal with them as they come and use what you are carrying.

As for recommending a pistol for hunters I have always told them that a hunter who can not kill a bear with a rifle is not very likely to do any better with a handgun.


Phil Shoemaker
Alaska Master Guide,
Alaska Hunter Ed Instructor
FAA Master pilot
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

Anyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
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Im new to this site and I would appreciate a little input on my question, if y'all don't mind. I'm a former Alaska resident, but military committments moved around the country and the world before that part of life came to an end. Im planning a trip back this summer with my son and grandson, long long overdue. My oldest boy, a gunsmith made a custom .375 Ruger for starting with a 1909 Argentine Mauser action. My question, is the .375 Ruger popular in Alaska? Im going to accept on faith it will plant moose or caribou pretty cleanly out to 300 yards, but is this an above average answer for brown bear when he knows your there? Thanks

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Originally Posted by GhostlySix
Im new to this site and I would appreciate a little input on my question, if y'all don't mind. I'm a former Alaska resident, but military committments moved around the country and the world before that part of life came to an end. Im planning a trip back this summer with my son and grandson, long long overdue. My oldest boy, a gunsmith made a custom .375 Ruger for starting with a 1909 Argentine Mauser action. My question, is the .375 Ruger popular in Alaska? Im going to accept on faith it will plant moose or caribou pretty cleanly out to 300 yards, but is this an above average answer for brown bear when he knows your there? Thanks


Can't go wrong with a 375 Ruger in my humble opinion.



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being a 30-30 will do just fine, the 375 will do fine. Well the 30-30 not to 300 yards, but you know what I mean.

Bullet choice, shot placement. You will be fine.


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Another tid bit to ponder, the bears found where Phil guides and the bears on kodiak are a very different critter than the bears one will find in 40 mile country. Average grizzly north of the Alaska range is much smaller than most imagine. Hell black bears in SE Alaska are bigger than most interior grizzlys. A lot of worrying about nothing is my take.

This bear charged my neighbor, was shot in the neck with a 30-06 180 gr bullet at 10 steps, game over. Mature sow, didn't weigh 300 lbs. My son was like 9 years old in this pic

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AlaskaCub, spot on!


The fact is a rifle does not take the place of a handgun and a handgun does not replace a rifle. They are both tools and my motto is the right tool for the job, is the best way to go.



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Originally Posted by GhostlySix
Im new to this site and I would appreciate a little input on my question, if y'all don't mind. I'm a former Alaska resident, but military committments moved around the country and the world before that part of life came to an end. Im planning a trip back this summer with my son and grandson, long long overdue. My oldest boy, a gunsmith made a custom .375 Ruger for starting with a 1909 Argentine Mauser action. My question, is the .375 Ruger popular in Alaska? Im going to accept on faith it will plant moose or caribou pretty cleanly out to 300 yards, but is this an above average answer for brown bear when he knows your there? Thanks


Plus 1 on the .375 Ruger.


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Pard shot a 9 ft bear on Kodiak, hit him good, other pard slamed him with a .458 Lott, not sure the Lott was necessary.


some bears can really absorb some lead or copper it seems, some not so much.

same pard that did the shooting with the Lott also shot a bear at point blank range in the chest with a .375 H&H, bear was shot simutaneously by a guy with a .300 winnie.

bear was never recovered, but it turned the charge, kinda sorta


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Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by helidriver72
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by helidriver72
If you do bring a sidearm don't let it lull you into a false sense of security. Always bring your rifle with you (even if it's a 6.5 wiz bang). Lots of people get tempted to leave the rifle in camp because they have a handgun, especially when packing meat. I'd way rather have a .243 than the biggest handgun they make. Anybody wanna do the math for me?
You are wrong! I'd rather have my big bore revolver than even a 338 win. BTDT you have no idea how effective they are on game.
Math will not get it done, but a big heavy bullet from a big bore revolver will.

[Linked Image]











The title of the thread is bear defense, not handgun hunting. Much respect on your handgun kills. But I bet if you needed to stop an aggressive bear at 20 feet you'd be reaching for the .338....


They bear on the left in the picture came in on me while I was working the moose kill and my rifle was out of reach. The 475 was on me in my shoulder holster.

I know exactly what this thread is about and you should not assume. If you'd ever used one of these big bore revolvers you'd know they posses the terminal performance to get the job done.



I feel for you being caught with your rifle out of reach, and that is a good thing, having a readily available sidearm to fall back on in that pickle. But the point of "reaching for the 338" does carry weight, as you had the advantage of a hunting partner getting bullets in that bear with a 338.

Just seems unlikely the op, with zero handgun experience, could bring himself up to any proficiency, remotely close to yours, in a short time span. Might be a better scenario to stay glued to a rifle.

Last edited by GaryVA; 01/28/17.

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Not Bullets, he fired first and I fired second. The impact of the 475 revolver was impressive and the bear never got up after being hit with the revolver. Can't say the same about the 338. The damage from the revolver was impressive.

My rifle was out of reach as it normally is when gather fire wood and other camp chores.



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Originally Posted by 458Win


As for recommending a pistol for hunters I have always told them that a hunter who can not kill a bear with a rifle is not very likely to do any better with a handgun.


A serious knack for distilling the crap out of a thread...

wink


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