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Sorry guys...another newbie question for my upcoming Caribou hunt. Most people I have spoken to regarding back country Alaska hunts recommend carrying a sidearm of some sort for bear protection (40-mile air suggested this and in addition told me we would get laughed at if we came with bear spray). So, my latest question is: What do people here that have been on AK hunts done? If you carry a sidearm, what caliber? thanks Northerner.
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As always something you are full competent with will be an asset. A shiney new what-have-you will be a liability in all likely hood. Bears do not like to be shot in the head with anything. A fully committed bear is a management problem second to none. Once in a fit of creativity I devised a bear charge simulator that threw a clay pigeon crotch high from 30 yards at 40 mile per hour, my best guess at the stop zones and speed and urgency. Most of us could do OK with a shotgun and birdshot (not a bear load) could you break the targets reliably with a handgun...rifle...shotgun with slugs...in my simple simon simulator? Leave the buckshot home. Two very unlikly bear situations are possible. 1 shoot a bear about to bite you and 2 shoot a bear about to bite or IS BITING a partner...see why the buckshot might kill someone? And in useage buckshot is just not a good stopper past a (very) few yards. In sheep country we keep 220 RN bear loads in the gun. Change to the sheep ammo, kill a sheep then put the bear loads back in the rifle! Keep the rifle in hand as much as possible. No good answer, No perfect answer. Just do not do anything wrong and keep that rifle in your grasp. If you are shooting a 6.5 whizz-bang this may be a problem. Sometimes the 30'06 is a pretty good rifle.
Watch 'Yer Topknot!
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Carry the biggest sidearm you can shoot well. A strong 357 magnum with hard cast 180 or 200 gr bullets @ 1200 fps or faster is the smallest round I carry. I also carry a 480 pushing a 400 gr cast bullet 1200 fps.
But mastering a handgun takes frequent practice and then there is dealing with recoil. Recommending a handgun you can't handle would be poor advice, and I have no idea what your shooting skills are. Having spent some time at a public range, I'd say most people need to brush up on their handgun skills.
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First off, do you like handguns? How often do you shoot one? Are you proficient?
I carry a handgun in addition to the rifle, not only as a get-offa-me option but also because I like killing deer with a handgun and take the time to practice with it. Over the years I've used various models but my constant has been some sort of 300+gr bullet which penetrates well at 1100-1200 fps. I find that with any more weight or recoil I either don't want to carry the thing or the recoil affects my accuracy.
If you aren't already committed to a handgun or aren't willing to become really adept with one before your trip, my best advice would be to get a rifle of sufficient power you can shoot well very quickly, with a bullet that will hold together for a full velocity impact at say, 7 yards. If you don't have such a rifle, buy one with your handgun money. If you already have the rifle, shoot up $700 in ammo before your trip on practice from snap shots at 10 yards to whatever distance you're competent to for caribou. Also, for a caribou hunt practice shooting the in wind alot.
Last edited by pabucktail; 01/24/17.
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What is that Quigley line? "Said I never had a use for one...never said I did not know how to use one."
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O'Conner wrote the best way to kill a Grizzly Bear is to go sheep hunting.
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Lots of folks carry a sidearm
I don't
figure the best chance for me is to keep the rifle I have with me handy and use it
I'm pretty certain when we sing our anthem and mention the land of the free, the original intent didn't mean cell phones, food stamps and birth control.
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First off, do you like handguns? How often do you shoot one? Are you proficient?
I carry a handgun in addition to the rifle, not only as a get-offa-me option but also because I like killing deer with a handgun and take the time to practice with it. Over the years I've used various models but my constant has been some sort of 300+gr bullet which penetrates well at 1100-1200 fps. I find that with any more weight or recoil I either don't want to carry the thing or the recoil affects my accuracy.
If you aren't already committed to a handgun or aren't willing to become really adept with one before your trip, my best advice would be to get a rifle of sufficient power you can shoot well very quickly, with a bullet that will hold together for a full velocity impact at say, 7 yards. If you don't have such a rifle, buy one with your handgun money. If you already have the rifle, shoot up $700 in ammo before your trip on practice from snap shots at 10 yards to whatever distance you're competent to for caribou. Also, for a caribou hunt practice shooting the in wind alot. I do not currently own a handgun and have very little experience with them. That being said, I am using this as a bit of an excuse to get one and become proficient with it. My plan was to do a bunch of practice to gain proficiency before my hunt. I had planned on just using my rifle, but was talked out of it by several experienced people that suggested otherwise. At any rate, seems like as good a time as any to get a handgun and practice with it. Northerner
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Do you handload? If you do a S&W 69 makes alot of sense all around.
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Start with a 22rf. Then get a 357 magnum. Then get a 44, 45 or something bigger if you find the need.
If you start with too powerful of a handgun at first you'll develop a flinch and it will be very hard to get rid of. I made the mistake of starting out with a 44 mag even with a fair bit of handgun experience, and am still fighting the flinch I developed 20 years ago.
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That info helps. One auto sort of fits the need a 10MM Glock. Double action revolvers take over with a steep learning curve toward competence. I can shoot heavier guns just not as well as what I have strapped on right now...a 5 inch Redhawk 41 mag with 265gr hardcast somewhere around 1300 feet per second. Single actions are for hunting, double actions are for personal protection. You have a great advantage starting from scratch instead of bringing along Grandpaw's Colt's Dragoon !
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Campfire Kahuna
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I rarely carry a handgun because I almost always have a rifle on me.
I do put a handgun on to clean a moose or such, but only if by myself.
Wife carries a glock 20 these days. Because she doesn't hunt, no rifle, but accompanies me all the time.
I wouldn't be to worried about it. MOstly using your head and having a rifle is going to be more important than the handgun.
That being said, i suspect if one was on top of you munching, a handgun if you could reach it at that poitn, couldn't really hurt antyhing.
And when we are not hunting, we both either carry Glock 20s or a 329PD in 44mag.
But as noted, better to carry something you can handle. It took Carolyn a while to get used to full power 10mm rounds and she shoots a bit now to stay proficient. Thankfully she just made the 20 her 24/7 carry gun down here, so will be even more familiar with it.
The other thing she will be carrying at times is a 50 beowulf AR15 with 400 grain hard cast if I can get them where I want them... shorty AR.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Glock 20s are 10MM...sort of an auto 41 Special...Sometimes called a Block 20, it does hold a bunch of ammo. May may not be a good fit with average size hands. Borrow or buy a used Glock 9MM, then use that skillset when you upgrade to the Glock 20. The advantage of revolvers is they can shoot low powered ammo for skill building working up to full power ammo for serious matters. Auto pistols need full power ammo to function.
Watch 'Yer Topknot!
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Unless one is truly proficient with a handgun, and that means a serious handgun, he should leave it at home. Simply pack a rifle capable of taking on bears, and keep it handy.
The muzzle blast alone from my 30-378 can probably cook a bear, and for sure he will be deaf for the rest of his life. Next time up though, I'm planning on carrying my 45-70 with 405 grain slugs. I consider myself proficient with a rifle. Mostly, I'd just get in trouble with a handgun, and it would be extra weight as well.
Depending on guide/outfitter policy, one might be weight limited. If that's the case, I'd vote for using that weight for some extra groceries.
Last edited by 1minute; 01/24/17.
1Minute
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I never carry a handgun when hunting with a RELIABLE rifle. Spend some money to ensure your rifle feeds/functions/fires and fits reliably.
The large handguns of today can be another 5 pounds hanging on my old carcass.
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When I went caribou hunting in western AK, I carried a 340 Wby because the grizz/ brownies were everywhere it seemed.
Now, out west, if in grizz country or wilderness areas, after game is down, I carry a S&W 329 44. Any heavier and I wouldn't carry it but it's not a handgun for the heaviest, hardcast loads either because of the recoil and possibly bullets walking forward in the cylinder under recoil and potentially locking it up. I haven't experienced that personally but read of it.
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[quote=1minute] The muzzle blast alone from my 30-378 can probably cook a bear, and for sure he will be deaf for the rest of his life. [quote] ROFL sounds like McManus
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Since you don't have a lot of experience with handguns why not just stick with a rifle. A rifle adequate for caribou is much more powerful than any packable handgun and would be better bear protection in most instances. You could choose your load with that strategy in mind.
If you want to become proficient with a handgun then by all means go for it but you will have to invest a fair amount of time to become skilled.
Also, I don't think there's anything wrong with bear spray as an adjunct tool to complement your firearm.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Glock 20s are 10MM...sort of an auto 41 Special...Sometimes called a Block 20, it does hold a bunch of ammo. May may not be a good fit with average size hands. Borrow or buy a used Glock 9MM, then use that skillset when you upgrade to the Glock 20. The advantage of revolvers is they can shoot low powered ammo for skill building working up to full power ammo for serious matters. Auto pistols need full power ammo to function. Well thats not actually true if you understand semi autos and have a bit of ability and reload... but I digress... Back off a "bear load" about 200 fps the guns will work and good enough to learn... Glock 20 SF fits wifes and my hands a bit better than the larger frames...
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Kahuna
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I never carry a handgun when hunting with a RELIABLE rifle. Spend some money to ensure your rifle feeds/functions/fires and fits reliably.
The large handguns of today can be another 5 pounds hanging on my old carcass. Yup! The extra weight of a handgun is foolish IMO&E.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Campfire Oracle
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On some jaunts, I make sure to have one.
I always have one when horseback whether just riding out from the house or on a week-long hunt. My rifle is in a scabbard on my saddle and if I were to unceremoniously part company with him (hey, I guess it could happen) and he were to exit stage left, I want some firepower.
A handgun is far more maneuverable inside the tent than a rifle. Also, I would not take one on a backpack hunt.
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time. --Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice. --ironbender
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Start with a 22rf. Then get a 357 magnum. Then get a 44, 45 or something bigger if you find the need.
If you start with too powerful of a handgun at first you'll develop a flinch and it will be very hard to get rid of. I made the mistake of starting out with a 44 mag even with a fair bit of handgun experience, and am still fighting the flinch I developed 20 years ago. Shoot 38spl out of the 357 for a bit first too, IMO.
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time. --Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice. --ironbender
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Campfire Kahuna
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Or load it down a bit for practicing. The shorter 38Spl brass let's hot gasses out into the chambers which over time may cause a bit of a sticky situation.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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What kind of sticky situation? I've shot a billion or two .38 specials through various .357s with nary a problem. Am I missing something?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Sheep/caribou hunting rifle. Forget the sidearm. Wasted weight. But don't forget awareness, or the sheep hunting rifle even if just going 50 yards for a dump. I came to Alaska in 1968, and have never HAD to shoot a bear. ( I've been around the block a couple times - others on here are regular whores! ) But then again, at my Kenai Peninsula home, brown bears thru the yard (and on the deck, and in the back of the pick-up) are fairly regular occurrences. Bearanoia is way over rated. I've never had any interest in provoking one by poking a hole in one (except for the occasional black for meat).. Not to say I haven't had some interesting moments, but I've never had to trip the trigger on a Griz/Brown. Detente! When not hunting, but just on walkabouts, I carry a Win 94 in .30-30. (higher MV /energy than a .44 Mag) Last thing I killed with it was a NoDak whitetail in 1966... But I have, in early years, carried a couple different Ruger Blackhawks in .44Mag. No longer own one. Do have a Python (.357) - but that's mostly for people, tho I do carry it out and about from time to time when I don't feel like the .30-30. Take something of more use/value - like a couple good paperbacks, or sundowner juice.
Last edited by las; 01/24/17.
The only true cost of having a dog is its death.
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Campfire Oracle
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What kind of sticky situation? I've shot a billion or two .38 specials through various .357s with nary a problem. Am I missing something? Got a little more on that, Art? I've not heard that either. Powder dependent?
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time. --Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice. --ironbender
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Never been to Alaska but run in to a few bears here.
I guide several hunts a year plus hunt for myself and with my kid.
I almost never carry my handgun if I have a rifle. Sometimes when I've left an elk out overnight I'll carry my rifle and handgun. I admit that is partly because of the Bears and because I like it. But I'm also usually horseback doing that so the weight isn't a big deal. And for me that is consistently the most predictable bear encounter to have. And they are usually cranky about it too.
Handgun is a Ruger .45 colt. I've been using the HSM bear load. Haven't killed a bear yet with them, worked good on an antelope and horse. I tried the buffalo bore load and they were fine but maybe a skosh more than needed and a bunch of money too.
But when I'm on foot hunting or guiding I prefer a rifle and don't want to pack a handgun too. I dang sure would if I couldn't have my rifle.
I got charged while horseback last fall by a sow with cub. And I've surprised a couple other bears at close range while horseback. Some people have asked if I was getting my gun ready and that thought has never occurred to me even though in all cases I had at least one with me. I was always more focused on staying aboard, figuring that to be my best option. Thankfully my horses have always behaved pretty reasonably given the circumstances. I pretty much always carry my handgun while horseback if not hunting. But getting bucked off and landing on a gun isn't fun either. Sorry for the detour probably wasn't all that helpful for the OP's question.
Last edited by Ralphie; 01/24/17.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Glock 20s are 10MM...sort of an auto 41 Special...Sometimes called a Block 20, it does hold a bunch of ammo. May may not be a good fit with average size hands. Borrow or buy a used Glock 9MM, then use that skillset when you upgrade to the Glock 20. The advantage of revolvers is they can shoot low powered ammo for skill building working up to full power ammo for serious matters. Auto pistols need full power ammo to function. You can practice with 40 SW in the G20.
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Also remember- Jack O'Conner was a professional journalist... only slightly more trustworthy in that age than now. And then only because he was a hunter. Dunno about his fishing....
The only true cost of having a dog is its death.
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Canadian perspective: I can't by law carry a handgun in the bush in Canada, doubt it would even be legal under US law if I went to Alaska as a non-resident alien.
When hunting in bear country here in Alberta I carry a rifle I am very proficient with, in my case a Ruger 77 35 Whelen w/250gr loads. I am very confident it will do the job as I practice with it.
Flyfishing or hiking in Alberta bear country I carry my 44 mag Marlin, again a rifle I am very confident will handle an issue as I practice with it as well.
In both scenarios I also carry bear spray, have deployed it a time or two. It has defused the situation fast. Have yet to shoot a bear because it wasn't happy with my presence.
If a bear were actually on me I would still at least try to deploy my spray if my rifle were lost etc. Better to wear a bit of bear spray and live, I suspect a wee bit of medical attention will be required anyway.
Carry what you are accustomed to, be very proficient with it and practice situational awareness.
Last edited by troutfly; 01/24/17.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Northerner- here is my last bear encounter (that I'm aware of- there are probably 10 or more for every one the person is aware of).
A buddy and I were in a dome-tent about 40 miles up the Noatak River, which drains into Kotzebue Sound, 6 sea-miles across from our apartment here. With us was my now deceased Lab, Tripper. The tent was pitched at the mouth of the tributary Aggie Creek. Nice little bench with game trail there, and a 4 inch deep , 20 foot wide side channel immediately beside. We were camped on the lee side of a little point of timber, with a pretty good breeze coming up the Noatak.
During the night I woke to hear sloshing just downstream from the tent. I was contemplating whether it was wind/surf slosh on the inflatable boat or not when it ceased. NOT! A bit later the sloshing began again, on the upstream side of the tent. I nudged the sleeping dog, who sat up, barked "Bear" once, laid down, and went back to sleep. Helluva bear dog...
7 " bear tracks in the morning on the sand across from the tent- not too bad for an interior Griszzy.
Worked out well for all concerned.
The Lab died of liver cancer a couple years later by the way.
Last edited by las; 01/24/17.
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Glock 20s are 10MM...sort of an auto 41 Special...Sometimes called a Block 20, it does hold a bunch of ammo. May may not be a good fit with average size hands. Borrow or buy a used Glock 9MM, then use that skillset when you upgrade to the Glock 20. The advantage of revolvers is they can shoot low powered ammo for skill building working up to full power ammo for serious matters. Auto pistols need full power ammo to function. You can practice with 40 SW in the G20. Re read my Glock armoror's manual, no mention of Short and Weaks in a 10MM. I have heard of this. I SAW a fellow shoot a whole box of 9MMs through a 40 S&W once too! They all fired but the power and precision was lacking!
Watch 'Yer Topknot!
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Campfire Outfitter
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Bill what impressed me with the Glock 20 and Buffalo Bore 220 gr cast loads was the how much better I could shoot it. Than my S&W model 29 44 Mag that I have owned for 30 years.
One 10MM might not stop a bear but it has 14 friends.
A lot easier to grab the Glock with 2 loaded mags on outings than the S&W.
kk alaska
Alaska 7 months of winter then 5 months of tourists
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Glock 20s are 10MM...sort of an auto 41 Special...Sometimes called a Block 20, it does hold a bunch of ammo. May may not be a good fit with average size hands. Borrow or buy a used Glock 9MM, then use that skillset when you upgrade to the Glock 20. The advantage of revolvers is they can shoot low powered ammo for skill building working up to full power ammo for serious matters. Auto pistols need full power ammo to function. You can practice with 40 SW in the G20. You can do that but i wouldn't recommend it . They headspace on the case mouth and .40 is enough shorter that it's not safe to do so. Spend $100 and buy a conversion bbl.
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Campfire Kahuna
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What kind of sticky situation? I've shot a billion or two .38 specials through various .357s with nary a problem. Am I missing something? I have seen rough chambers with rings at 38Spl length that made ejection a bit stiff with 357. Some cleaned up easily; some did not.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Bill what impressed me with the Glock 20 and Buffalo Bore 220 gr cast loads was the how much better I could shoot it. Than my S&W model 29 44 Mag that I have owned for 30 years.
One 10MM might not stop a bear but it has 14 friends.
A lot easier to grab the Glock with 2 loaded mags on outings than the S&W. I think thats 15 friends actually. LOL. But compared to my 329PD esepcially, the 10 is MUCH easier to shoot. And consider, one gun, 2 spare mags and you have almost a box of ammo. YOu do still have to hit vitals, not just make loud noise with bears if its real...
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Kahuna
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What kind of sticky situation? I've shot a billion or two .38 specials through various .357s with nary a problem. Am I missing something? I have seen rough chambers with rings at 38Spl length that made ejection a bit stiff with 357. Some cleaned up easily; some did not. IF you maintain the chambers now and then you are usually ok. Damn shame the old lead wipe out or wipe off rags are not around anymore. They would help there, and would sure make cleaning my suppressors baffles easier.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Oh, okay Art, that makes since. I've always been retentive about cleaning so that wouldn't be an issue for me.
Rost, I just bought some of those lead wipes patches recently. If I remember right they're made by Klean Bore.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Really, have a link, or can you check for sure. Used to be called wipe out or wipe off I THINK... leather type piece of cloth in a glass jar. I"m sure EPA banned it, or I'd bet...
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Oh, okay Art, that makes since. I've always been retentive about cleaning so that wouldn't be an issue for me.
Rost, I just bought some of those lead wipes patches recently. If I remember right they're made by Klean Bore. I have seen actual pits in chambers from gas jetting.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Haven't carried a pistol while hunt in years. I relie on my rifle , much more accurate and powerful. Just get really proficient with your rifle. Bring a nice steak or two with the saved weight.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Oh, okay Art, that makes since. I've always been retentive about cleaning so that wouldn't be an issue for me.
Rost, I just bought some of those lead wipes patches recently. If I remember right they're made by Klean Bore. I have seen actual pits in chambers from gas jetting. Interesting, I would have thought yes at the barrel cylinder gap but never in the chamber area. I"ve never seen it in rifle chambers either. But then agian I"ve never had a rifle so chambered.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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What kind of sticky situation? I've shot a billion or two .38 specials through various .357s with nary a problem. Am I missing something? I have seen rough chambers with rings at 38Spl length that made ejection a bit stiff with 357. Some cleaned up easily; some did not. Any relationship to CM or SS?
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time. --Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice. --ironbender
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Similar container but it wiped lead off. Would wipe the film off a shiny nickel python with one wipe... I was amazed by it. I MIGHT find it back one of these decades if I don't die first. No clue where it went to, or maybe it quit finally and I tossed it.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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What kind of sticky situation? I've shot a billion or two .38 specials through various .357s with nary a problem. Am I missing something? I have seen rough chambers with rings at 38Spl length that made ejection a bit stiff with 357. Some cleaned up easily; some did not. Any relationship to CM or SS? Wonder if cylinder coated with UBC would negate that also possibly?
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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What kind of sticky situation? I've shot a billion or two .38 specials through various .357s with nary a problem. Am I missing something? I have seen rough chambers with rings at 38Spl length that made ejection a bit stiff with 357. Some cleaned up easily; some did not. Any relationship to CM or SS? I have not seen it in a SS gun but hesitate to say it cannot happen.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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What kind of sticky situation? I've shot a billion or two .38 specials through various .357s with nary a problem. Am I missing something? I have seen rough chambers with rings at 38Spl length that made ejection a bit stiff with 357. Some cleaned up easily; some did not. Wasn't my Python, Art. I think I might have put 15-20 rounds (357) through it in as many years. Total, not annually. And ya, I refer to it as the tonsil-tickler....
The only true cost of having a dog is its death.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Do bears have tonsils????
The only true cost of having a dog is its death.
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Campfire Outfitter
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This thread got weird when las brought up his tonsil tickler.
Anyway... I generally don't carry a pistol. Last few years my sheep hunting partner has been carrying my 329PD. I've become convinced that I should be carrying it, so will need to sweet talk it away from him. In a chest pack (HPG kit bag) it is hardly noticeable weight, and my rifle is tied to my pack often enough that alternate means of making loud noises is wanted.
Actually drew it this year, as I was up a creek without the rifle, and stumbled into a sow that was pretty sure she had the right of way. I was downwind, and we traded places in the river bottom until she could get a whiff of me. When she did, she did a rather impressive burnout, bowled over a pretty good sized alder, and was gone. Glad that was the path she chose. Wish I had helmet cam footage.
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Campfire Member
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Similar container but it wiped lead off. Would wipe the film off a shiny nickel python with one wipe... I was amazed by it. I MIGHT find it back one of these decades if I don't die first. No clue where it went to, or maybe it quit finally and I tossed it. I think this is what you are looking for: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/647492/midwayusa-rust-and-lead-remover-gun-cleaning-clothIf I recall correctly Birchwood-Casey used to have them.
One unerring mark of the love of the truth is not entertaining any proposition with greater assurance than the proofs it is built upon will warrant. John Locke, 1690
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Campfire Tracker
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I never carry a handgun when hunting with a RELIABLE rifle. Spend some money to ensure your rifle feeds/functions/fires and fits reliably.
The large handguns of today can be another 5 pounds hanging on my old carcass. Yup! The extra weight of a handgun is foolish IMO&E. ^ this
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Son of a liberal: " What did you do in the War On Terror, Daddy?"
Liberal father: " I fought the Americans, along with all the other liberals."
MOLON LABE
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Not my Python, Art. I've never put a .38 thru it. and probably only 20 rounds of 357 M in the last 15 years. I believe in tonsillectomies if the chit hits the fan, at least with that handgun. Do bear have tonsils?
Last edited by las; 01/27/17.
The only true cost of having a dog is its death.
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If you do bring a sidearm don't let it lull you into a false sense of security. Always bring your rifle with you (even if it's a 6.5 wiz bang). Lots of people get tempted to leave the rifle in camp because they have a handgun, especially when packing meat. I'd way rather have a .243 than the biggest handgun they make. Anybody wanna do the math for me?
Member Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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If you do bring a sidearm don't let it lull you into a false sense of security. Always bring your rifle with you (even if it's a 6.5 wiz bang). Lots of people get tempted to leave the rifle in camp because they have a handgun, especially when packing meat. I'd way rather have a .243 than the biggest handgun they make. Anybody wanna do the math for me? You are wrong! I'd rather have my big bore revolver than even a 338 win. BTDT you have no idea how effective they are on game. Math will not get it done, but a big heavy bullet from a big bore revolver will.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Cool, not aware of that. Might have to try a few. Goign to go look if there are reviews now.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Looks like comments say not as good as something called lead away in the 80s, but worth trying I think maybe.
Though was a comment that flitz on a cloth or probably the simichrome I have laying right here same...
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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If you do bring a sidearm don't let it lull you into a false sense of security. Always bring your rifle with you (even if it's a 6.5 wiz bang). Lots of people get tempted to leave the rifle in camp because they have a handgun, especially when packing meat. I'd way rather have a .243 than the biggest handgun they make. Anybody wanna do the math for me? You are wrong! I'd rather have my big bore revolver than even a 338 win. BTDT you have no idea how effective they are on game. Math will not get it done, but a big heavy bullet from a big bore revolver will.
The title of the thread is bear defense, not handgun hunting. Much respect on your handgun kills. But I bet if you needed to stop an aggressive bear at 20 feet you'd be reaching for the .338....
Last edited by helidriver72; 01/27/17.
Member Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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If you do bring a sidearm don't let it lull you into a false sense of security. Always bring your rifle with you (even if it's a 6.5 wiz bang). Lots of people get tempted to leave the rifle in camp because they have a handgun, especially when packing meat. I'd way rather have a .243 than the biggest handgun they make. Anybody wanna do the math for me? You are wrong! I'd rather have my big bore revolver than even a 338 win. BTDT you have no idea how effective they are on game. Math will not get it done, but a big heavy bullet from a big bore revolver will.
The title of the thread is bear defense, not handgun hunting. Much respect on your handgun kills. But I bet if you needed to stop an aggressive bear at 20 feet you'd be reaching for the .338.... They bear on the left in the picture came in on me while I was working the moose kill and my rifle was out of reach. The 475 was on me in my shoulder holster. I know exactly what this thread is about and you should not assume. If you'd ever used one of these big bore revolvers you'd know they posses the terminal performance to get the job done.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Tracker
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When I moved to Alaska in the mid 90's the first thing I did was buy a Colt Anaconda. I hauled that bastard everywhere with me because I was certain there were bears behind every tree just waiting to eat me. Two years later I realized that bears were a non issue and quit toting that thing around and sold it. If you are hunting by yourself in an area where bears are prevalent I would think about having a capable sidearm but when hunting with others I just see it as unnecessary and just one more thing to carry. I've had eye opening close encounters with bears all over Alaska, and IME using your head and paying attention to your surroundings always worked for me.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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When I moved to Alaska in the mid 90's the first thing I did was buy a Colt Anaconda. I hauled that bastard everywhere with me because I was certain there were bears behind every tree just waiting to eat me. Two years later I realized that bears were a non issue and quit toting that thing around and sold it. If you are hunting by yourself in an area where bears are prevalent I would think about having a capable sidearm but when hunting with others I just see it as unnecessary and just one more thing to carry. I've had eye opening close encounters with bears all over Alaska, and IME using your head and paying attention to your surroundings always worked for me. All of my hunting was fly in and drop off. Sleep in a 2-3 man dome tent and in a sleeping bag your not going to get a rifle into play if a bear gets on you. A handgun is a very viable option.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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[quote=Uncas]As always something you are full competent with will be an asset. A shiney new what-have-you will be a liability in all likely hood. Bears do not like to be shot in the head with anything. A fully committed bear is a management problem second to none. No good answer, No perfect answer. Just do not do anything wrong and keep that rifle in your grasp.
-------------------------------------------------------------- Jotted this thought seven pages ago. I do not feel much has been added.
Watch 'Yer Topknot!
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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When I moved to Alaska in the mid 90's the first thing I did was buy a Colt Anaconda. I hauled that bastard everywhere with me because I was certain there were bears behind every tree just waiting to eat me. Two years later I realized that bears were a non issue and quit toting that thing around and sold it. If you are hunting by yourself in an area where bears are prevalent I would think about having a capable sidearm but when hunting with others I just see it as unnecessary and just one more thing to carry. I've had eye opening close encounters with bears all over Alaska, and IME using your head and paying attention to your surroundings always worked for me. I agree almost 100%!! We actually carry a handgun only when not hunting because I don't trust a close moose encounter more... And you never know when you run into a 2 legged animal that has issues. So we'll always be carrying something, for some situation. But it won't be overly heavy thats for sure, and its not going to be one of the huge uncontrollable rounds either.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Outfitter
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When I moved to Alaska in the mid 90's the first thing I did was buy a Colt Anaconda. I hauled that bastard everywhere with me because I was certain there were bears behind every tree just waiting to eat me. Two years later I realized that bears were a non issue and quit toting that thing around and sold it. If you are hunting by yourself in an area where bears are prevalent I would think about having a capable sidearm but when hunting with others I just see it as unnecessary and just one more thing to carry. I've had eye opening close encounters with bears all over Alaska, and IME using your head and paying attention to your surroundings always worked for me. ROFL! sounds just like me, for a while I had a model 629 S&W and also a Mossberg 12 ga for bear protection, but I ended up selling both, having never fired either one. Too heavy to carry. I had a few close encounters with with brownies at maybe 3x flyrod length, but was never threatened by a bear in 6 years.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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If you do bring a sidearm don't let it lull you into a false sense of security. Always bring your rifle with you (even if it's a 6.5 wiz bang). Lots of people get tempted to leave the rifle in camp because they have a handgun, especially when packing meat. I'd way rather have a .243 than the biggest handgun they make. Anybody wanna do the math for me? In the past 33 years of living and guiding on the Alaska peninsula from our families homestead I have never had to kill a bear in defense of live or property. DLP as the state refers to it. Two days ago I was guiding a married couple and we bumped into a bear at close range on our way to the fishing stream. We yelled and it ran but circled around and then charged. The couple were 10 or 12 feet behind me and the bear came out of the brush so close it was within 3 feet of my clients before I could shoot. They both intentionally fell to the ground just before I shot the bear behind the shoulder. It immediately spun and I continued shooting, all the while keeping the position of my clients in perspective. After six quick hits the bear turned and ran 20 yards and died . We were planning on a quick couple hours of fishing and rather than packing my normal S&W 44 Mtn gun I was packing a S&W 3953 dao auto with 147 gr Buffalo Bore 9mm ammo. http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/11426304/5
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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If you do bring a sidearm don't let it lull you into a false sense of security. Always bring your rifle with you (even if it's a 6.5 wiz bang). Lots of people get tempted to leave the rifle in camp because they have a handgun, especially when packing meat. I'd way rather have a .243 than the biggest handgun they make. Anybody wanna do the math for me? In the past 33 years of living and guiding on the Alaska peninsula from our families homestead I have never had to kill a bear in defense of live or property. DLP as the state refers to it. Two days ago I was guiding a married couple and we bumped into a bear at close range on our way to the fishing stream. We yelled and it ran but circled around and then charged. The couple were 10 or 12 feet behind me and the bear came out of the brush so close it was within 3 feet of my clients before I could shoot. They both intentionally fell to the ground just before I shot the bear behind the shoulder. It immediately spun and I continued shooting, all the while keeping the position of my clients in perspective. After six quick hits the bear turned and ran 20 yards and died . We were planning on a quick couple hours of fishing and rather than packing my normal S&W 44 Mtn gun I was packing a S&W 3953 dao auto with 147 gr Buffalo Bore 9mm ammo. http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/11426304/5 I bet if you asked Phil if he knew he would be in the same situation tomorrow he would bring a long gun......... There's a reason myself and all the other Brown Bear guides I know pack rifles.
Member Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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If you read the whole thread you'll find that Phil carries a handgun quite a bit for bear protection.
The point is protection and for that you need a gun and no one can have a rifle available 100% of the time and that is where a handgun comes into play.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Tracker
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If you do bring a sidearm don't let it lull you into a false sense of security. Always bring your rifle with you (even if it's a 6.5 wiz bang). Lots of people get tempted to leave the rifle in camp because they have a handgun, especially when packing meat. I'd way rather have a .243 than the biggest handgun they make. Anybody wanna do the math for me? In the past 33 years of living and guiding on the Alaska peninsula from our families homestead I have never had to kill a bear in defense of live or property. DLP as the state refers to it. Two days ago I was guiding a married couple and we bumped into a bear at close range on our way to the fishing stream. We yelled and it ran but circled around and then charged. The couple were 10 or 12 feet behind me and the bear came out of the brush so close it was within 3 feet of my clients before I could shoot. They both intentionally fell to the ground just before I shot the bear behind the shoulder. It immediately spun and I continued shooting, all the while keeping the position of my clients in perspective. After six quick hits the bear turned and ran 20 yards and died . We were planning on a quick couple hours of fishing and rather than packing my normal S&W 44 Mtn gun I was packing a S&W 3953 dao auto with 147 gr Buffalo Bore 9mm ammo. http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/11426304/5 I bet if you asked Phil if he knew he would be in the same situation tomorrow he would bring a long gun......... There's a reason myself and all the other Brown Bear guides I know pack rifles. Hell, if I knew I was going into the same situation I wouldn't go !! But when I am tracking wounded bears I feel perfectly armed with my 458. However in the situation this past summer that might have posed some pass through issues and endangered the clients. Every situation is different and you can't plan for all of them. You just have to deal with them as they come and use what you are carrying. As for recommending a pistol for hunters I have always told them that a hunter who can not kill a bear with a rifle is not very likely to do any better with a handgun.
Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master Guide, Alaska Hunter Ed Instructor FAA Master pilot www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.comAnyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
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Im new to this site and I would appreciate a little input on my question, if y'all don't mind. I'm a former Alaska resident, but military committments moved around the country and the world before that part of life came to an end. Im planning a trip back this summer with my son and grandson, long long overdue. My oldest boy, a gunsmith made a custom .375 Ruger for starting with a 1909 Argentine Mauser action. My question, is the .375 Ruger popular in Alaska? Im going to accept on faith it will plant moose or caribou pretty cleanly out to 300 yards, but is this an above average answer for brown bear when he knows your there? Thanks
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Im new to this site and I would appreciate a little input on my question, if y'all don't mind. I'm a former Alaska resident, but military committments moved around the country and the world before that part of life came to an end. Im planning a trip back this summer with my son and grandson, long long overdue. My oldest boy, a gunsmith made a custom .375 Ruger for starting with a 1909 Argentine Mauser action. My question, is the .375 Ruger popular in Alaska? Im going to accept on faith it will plant moose or caribou pretty cleanly out to 300 yards, but is this an above average answer for brown bear when he knows your there? Thanks Can't go wrong with a 375 Ruger in my humble opinion.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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being a 30-30 will do just fine, the 375 will do fine. Well the 30-30 not to 300 yards, but you know what I mean.
Bullet choice, shot placement. You will be fine.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Another tid bit to ponder, the bears found where Phil guides and the bears on kodiak are a very different critter than the bears one will find in 40 mile country. Average grizzly north of the Alaska range is much smaller than most imagine. Hell black bears in SE Alaska are bigger than most interior grizzlys. A lot of worrying about nothing is my take. This bear charged my neighbor, was shot in the neck with a 30-06 180 gr bullet at 10 steps, game over. Mature sow, didn't weigh 300 lbs. My son was like 9 years old in this pic
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Campfire 'Bwana
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AlaskaCub, spot on!
The fact is a rifle does not take the place of a handgun and a handgun does not replace a rifle. They are both tools and my motto is the right tool for the job, is the best way to go.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Im new to this site and I would appreciate a little input on my question, if y'all don't mind. I'm a former Alaska resident, but military committments moved around the country and the world before that part of life came to an end. Im planning a trip back this summer with my son and grandson, long long overdue. My oldest boy, a gunsmith made a custom .375 Ruger for starting with a 1909 Argentine Mauser action. My question, is the .375 Ruger popular in Alaska? Im going to accept on faith it will plant moose or caribou pretty cleanly out to 300 yards, but is this an above average answer for brown bear when he knows your there? Thanks Plus 1 on the .375 Ruger.
Member Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester
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Pard shot a 9 ft bear on Kodiak, hit him good, other pard slamed him with a .458 Lott, not sure the Lott was necessary.
some bears can really absorb some lead or copper it seems, some not so much.
same pard that did the shooting with the Lott also shot a bear at point blank range in the chest with a .375 H&H, bear was shot simutaneously by a guy with a .300 winnie.
bear was never recovered, but it turned the charge, kinda sorta
I'm pretty certain when we sing our anthem and mention the land of the free, the original intent didn't mean cell phones, food stamps and birth control.
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If you do bring a sidearm don't let it lull you into a false sense of security. Always bring your rifle with you (even if it's a 6.5 wiz bang). Lots of people get tempted to leave the rifle in camp because they have a handgun, especially when packing meat. I'd way rather have a .243 than the biggest handgun they make. Anybody wanna do the math for me? You are wrong! I'd rather have my big bore revolver than even a 338 win. BTDT you have no idea how effective they are on game. Math will not get it done, but a big heavy bullet from a big bore revolver will.
The title of the thread is bear defense, not handgun hunting. Much respect on your handgun kills. But I bet if you needed to stop an aggressive bear at 20 feet you'd be reaching for the .338.... They bear on the left in the picture came in on me while I was working the moose kill and my rifle was out of reach. The 475 was on me in my shoulder holster. I know exactly what this thread is about and you should not assume. If you'd ever used one of these big bore revolvers you'd know they posses the terminal performance to get the job done. I feel for you being caught with your rifle out of reach, and that is a good thing, having a readily available sidearm to fall back on in that pickle. But the point of "reaching for the 338" does carry weight, as you had the advantage of a hunting partner getting bullets in that bear with a 338. Just seems unlikely the op, with zero handgun experience, could bring himself up to any proficiency, remotely close to yours, in a short time span. Might be a better scenario to stay glued to a rifle.
Last edited by GaryVA; 01/28/17.
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
- Clint Eastwood
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
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Not Bullets, he fired first and I fired second. The impact of the 475 revolver was impressive and the bear never got up after being hit with the revolver. Can't say the same about the 338. The damage from the revolver was impressive.
My rifle was out of reach as it normally is when gather fire wood and other camp chores.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
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As for recommending a pistol for hunters I have always told them that a hunter who can not kill a bear with a rifle is not very likely to do any better with a handgun.
A serious knack for distilling the crap out of a thread...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
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Too many act as if a handgun is not up to the task of having the terminal effectiveness to use as a defensive weapon against bears. This is simply not true! Phil stopped an all out charge with a 9mm with a 147 grain hardcast. I prefer and used a big boar revolver, Phil has sound reasons for his choice. While this account is not in a defensive nature, it definitely illustrates the the terminal effectiveness of a handgun Written by Dustin Linebaugh, "We had sat on an open hillside for somewhere around an hour, glassing the open tundra & alder patches that streatched out below us for miles. Then movement caught my eye as I watched my Grizz amble from the alder thicket some 6 or 700 yds below us. After a few seconds everyone was very focused on this bear & we all agreed he was a nice trophy. After scaling the moss & shale covered hill side for a few minutes we were within 200 yds or so of him. We crept to within 176 yds of him & he knew something was there, I felt confident I could place a good vital shot on him from this distance. He was sitting down on his haunches looking straight at us when I squeezed the shot off hitting him center of chest. The 425 grn LFN penatrated straight through breaking the spine then exiting, he instantly crumpled to the ground then began rolling around trying to get up, I then followed up with placing two brodside shots on him with my .475 Linebaugh. We ranged the distance 3 times to be 176 yds with a Leica range finder, after the 2.5 mile hike back to camp we rolled the hide out flat on the ground & it measured 8'.5" ft nose to taiL" This a picture of Dustin and his bear. I'm not recommending a handgun or rifle for that matter, just trying to shed some light on the terminal effectiveness of a handgun.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2005
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Im new to this site and I would appreciate a little input on my question, if y'all don't mind. I'm a former Alaska resident, but military committments moved around the country and the world before that part of life came to an end. Im planning a trip back this summer with my son and grandson, long long overdue. My oldest boy, a gunsmith made a custom .375 Ruger for starting with a 1909 Argentine Mauser action. My question, is the .375 Ruger popular in Alaska? Im going to accept on faith it will plant moose or caribou pretty cleanly out to 300 yards, but is this an above average answer for brown bear when he knows your there? Thanks Don't know if this will answer your question but all of my guides, with the exception of one who lives on Kodiak and is maybe more of a rifle geek than I am, use the 375 Ruger. And I just bought a second one. And well place handgun bullets, especially the larger ones, do work just fine on bears. My daughter guided a brown bear hunter a few years ago who was using a 500 S&W and she said it was DRT and as quick and impressive as kill as she has ever seen.
Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master Guide, Alaska Hunter Ed Instructor FAA Master pilot www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.comAnyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Too many act as if a handgun is not up to the task of having the terminal effectiveness to use as a defensive weapon against bears. This is simply not true! Phil stopped an all out charge with a 9mm with a 147 grain hardcast. I prefer and used a big boar revolver, Phil has sound reasons for his choice. While this account is not in a defensive nature, it definitely illustrates the the terminal effectiveness of a handgun Written by Dustin Linebaugh, "We had sat on an open hillside for somewhere around an hour, glassing the open tundra & alder patches that streatched out below us for miles. Then movement caught my eye as I watched my Grizz amble from the alder thicket some 6 or 700 yds below us. After a few seconds everyone was very focused on this bear & we all agreed he was a nice trophy. After scaling the moss & shale covered hill side for a few minutes we were within 200 yds or so of him. We crept to within 176 yds of him & he knew something was there, I felt confident I could place a good vital shot on him from this distance. He was sitting down on his haunches looking straight at us when I squeezed the shot off hitting him center of chest. The 425 grn LFN penatrated straight through breaking the spine then exiting, he instantly crumpled to the ground then began rolling around trying to get up, I then followed up with placing two brodside shots on him with my .475 Linebaugh. We ranged the distance 3 times to be 176 yds with a Leica range finder, after the 2.5 mile hike back to camp we rolled the hide out flat on the ground & it measured 8'.5" ft nose to taiL" This a picture of Dustin and his bear. I'm not recommending a handgun or rifle for that matter, just trying to shed some light on the terminal effectiveness of a handgun. That's some pretty impressive shooting with that short barrel!
Member Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 15,693 Likes: 4 |
When I moved to Alaska in the mid 90's the first thing I did was buy a Colt Anaconda. I hauled that bastard everywhere with me because I was certain there were bears behind every tree just waiting to eat me. Two years later I realized that bears were a non issue and quit toting that thing around and sold it. If you are hunting by yourself in an area where bears are prevalent I would think about having a capable sidearm but when hunting with others I just see it as unnecessary and just one more thing to carry. I've had eye opening close encounters with bears all over Alaska, and IME using your head and paying attention to your surroundings always worked for me. All of my hunting was fly in and drop off. Sleep in a 2-3 man dome tent and in a sleeping bag your not going to get a rifle into play if a bear gets on you. A handgun is a very viable option. That's always been my argument. I sleep with my revolver in the sleeping bag with me. When you're all buttoned up and find yourself getting dragged out of the tent you have a gun with you rather than the one that is quickly increasing distance from you, and can shoot through the bag if you have to.
Z
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That info helps. One auto sort of fits the need a 10MM Glock. Double action revolvers take over with a steep learning curve toward competence. I can shoot heavier guns just not as well as what I have strapped on right now...a 5 inch Redhawk 41 mag with 265gr hardcast somewhere around 1300 feet per second. Single actions are for hunting, double actions are for personal protection. You have a great advantage starting from scratch instead of bringing along Grandpaw's Colt's Dragoon ! I think your comment is an important one. For a sidearm in grizz country, I went from a 44mag, to a 41 mag to a 357mag, revolvers, all with hardcast, trying to find something that would shorten my recovery time on follow up shots. The 41mag was the best out of the three, but still I didn't feel confident with consistent accuracy. So I went to a heavy weight semi in 10mm, with hardcast, and my accuracy as well as follow up was better. So that's what I use. I'm still learning. I use a 30-06 with partitons when hunting in grizz country, because that's what I shoot the best. And I still carry bearspray. To add: of course I'm talking about Wyoming, which is my only experience with dangerous game. Carrying a heavy sidearm is not inconvenient for me, but I understand where it might be for others.
Last edited by Wyogal; 01/29/17.
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Wyogal....Thanks for the kind words. This is how the Campfire was back when there were just a few of us!
Watch 'Yer Topknot!
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OP
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Thanks for the opinions everyone, very helpful. Think I have decided to purchase a side arm for the trip (always sorta wanted one anyway...this is as good an excuse as any). Understand the comments about being new to the pistol game...that's why I am asking now, so I have time to make a purchase and gain some semblance of pistol proficiency before the trip in September. Thanks again! Northerner.
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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Well, I just bought a .50AE Desert Ego. I'll see how that works.
You can piddle with the puppies, or run with the wolves...
Better living through chemistry!
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Hell, if I knew I was going into the same situation I wouldn't go !! LOLOL....pretty much the same answer I've given folks that ask if I really think I'm going to need the pistol I pretty much always have with me these days here in the civilized world. Of course I don't think I'll need it. If I thought I was going to need it I either 1)wouldn't go or 2)take a lot bigger gun. You just have to prepare the best you can with what's reasonable to have along.
“When Tyranny becomes Law, Rebellion becomes Duty”
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version) "And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him."
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Glock 20s are 10MM...sort of an auto 41 Special...Sometimes called a Block 20, it does hold a bunch of ammo. May may not be a good fit with average size hands. Borrow or buy a used Glock 9MM, then use that skillset when you upgrade to the Glock 20. The advantage of revolvers is they can shoot low powered ammo for skill building working up to full power ammo for serious matters. Auto pistols need full power ammo to function. You can practice with 40 SW in the G20. Re read my Glock armoror's manual, no mention of Short and Weaks in a 10MM. I have heard of this. I SAW a fellow shoot a whole box of 9MMs through a 40 S&W once too! They all fired but the power and precision was lacking! Maybe it's okay to use .308 ammo in a 30-06. Just joking..
Randy NRA Patriot Life Benefactor
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I have been carrying a 329PD with Buffalo Bore 255 grain load at 1250 fps.
But now am upgrading to a 3 pound 14 oz gun shooting a 225 grain partitions at 2400 fps to have the option to actually go hunt a grizz if I want while out and about hiking in the interior where I do most my summer hiking.
Should work fine to 150 yards or so. Given the 1.5" groups I am getting at 100 yards.
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Campfire Regular
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So what's the 3 lb 12 oz gun your gonna carry?
Member Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Cool, not aware of that. Might have to try a few. Goign to go look if there are reviews now. Jeff, The old Lead Away cloth is still available, just different packaging: [color:#3333FF]KleenBore Lead Away Cloth[/color] Ed
"Not in an open forum, where truth has less value than opinions, where all opinions are equally welcome regardless of their origins, rationale, inanity, or truth, where opinions are neither of equal value nor decisive." Ken Howell
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Thanks Ed! I had not ordered the other one yet, have a bad way of putting things off.
Paid off for once!
Jeff
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Regular
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Do you handload? If you do a S&W 69 makes alot of sense all around. You got my attention, you got a pet load for your 69?
Never try to teach a pig to sing... ...it wastes your time and annoys the pig!
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