Home Forums Lever Action Central Big Bore Levers 45/70or 450.

Probably starting an old debate here so if this question is getting old -sorry.Was thinking of a336 in 35rem.,however a friend just got a BLR in 450 and suggested I get a 1895 in same ,then dealer can carry a good supply of ammo.I reload and it seems to me I can load the 45/70 up to 450 level but factory 450 stuff is already up there and so will the recoil,or is the recoil exagerated by the writers.I would be getting the guide gun,and using it for bear and coastal blacktail in tPhick cover.I will thank you guys and gals now for your help.P.S.I already reload for a number of guns and would not mind just using factory ammo for now as life is keeping me quite busy right now.

You could reload the 45-70 up to the factory 450 levels and then the recoil would be about the same. Or you could reload the 450 down to trapdoor levels. Both have similar powder capacities and can use the same bullets. The recoil can be stiff, but it's not brutal. If you reload, the real issue is whether you want a rim on your cartidge or a belt.

If you want to stay with factory stuff at the top end, the 450 might be the way to go. That would be my preference anyway. The Hornady stuff looks to be real good and it's much less expensive than the hot 45-70 loads I've seen. Garretts is top of the line if you need that much, but you will pay top dollar for it. It's your money, you decide how you want to spend it.

I already reload for 4 45-70s, so my leaning to the 450 is based purely on the cost of factory ammo. My actual preference would be for the 444, but you were asking about 45 caliber guns.

The 450 is basically a belted 45-70 which prevents Hot loads from being sold and used in Trapdoors and other weak actions. It keeps the laywers out of the picture. Since the 1895 action is pretty much the same it is a matter of reloading hot loads or buying hot loads. As Jayhawker said the cost may be the issue. Another safety advantage to the 450 is that ammo cannot be used in a 45-70.

The 45/70 versus the .450 Marlin arguement is as old as the .450 Marlin itself. The 45/70 is more of a reloaders cartridge and the .450 Marlin for those that don't. They share the same bore, comparativly the same size case, and available in many of the same lever action rifles. While the SAAMI specs for the trapdoor 45/70 hold the pressure to 28,000PSI, the modern Marlin lever actions at 40,000PSI, and the Ruger #1 and #3 at 50,000PSI, the .450 is 43,000PSI. With the outside fired case dimensions differing only by .009" measured at about a 1/2" forward of the base, they are pretty much the same. The difference is in the thickness of the base and sidewalls, with the .450 being the heavier, it's case weighs 220.1gr. and the 45/70 weighs 172.9gr. The 45/70 however will hold more powder. Measured in amount of water it will hold, the 450 will hold 76.8gr. and the 45/70 83.1gr.
According to Marlin, the .450 Marlin was developed to prevent higher pressure modern 45/70 loads from accidently being used in the older rifles that aren't capable of handling those pressures. Well, just my opinion here, but those higher pressure 45/70 loads are still being produced, the trapdoor rifles are still being used, so I can't see how the .450 Marlin has changed anything in that respect. The .450 Marlin is a fine cartridge as is the 45/70. Ballistically the 100 plus year old 45/70 can do anything the .450 Marlin can do if loaded to the same pressure levels, with the same bullet, and at the same velocity.
Don

Roll yer own = 45/70
buy em= 450
From a simple bang for the buck equation thats er

In a few years you'll have to make .450 Marlin brass. The .45-70 will still be avalible in any good sporting goods store. Even at factory velocities the .45-70 will hammer nearly anything that moves. I don't load mine hot, because I want to enjoy shooting it.

The purpose (admitted or not) is the same as all the new fangled wizzers that were developed in the last decade, wich are the same as leverevoltion projectiles, which reduce the initial intended effect of the big bore lever,to cut brush close in. But hey they were all intended to boost sales. Did it work? Did ya buy one?????

Well after thinking it over I went with the 45/70 seeming as I reload anyhow. It should be here in a few days and am looking forward to shooting this old war horse,should be fun and that is what I look for in a firearm.I am going to mount an aimpoint on it and try the remington 405gr factory stuff or maybe hornady 350's.

Don't write off some hard cast lead bullets either. Those are just plain fun to shoot. I have a cheap Lee 405 gr FP mould, and I shoot 'em as cast with Liquid Alox lube, and they are deadly accurate and penetrate like death itself. Tons of fun.

Not that it matters, but I think you made the right choice. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

i shoot almost exclusivly hard cast anymore...........my guide gun with light loads has become the favorite gopher gun in our house as the wife likes shooting it, we use it as a big 22, course the 405 hard cast penetrate the mounds much better than the 32 grain 22's when the dirt rats are holding tight to cover <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I reload for 3 different 45-70's in my house. An original Rolling Block that only eats black powder, a Browning 1885 that pushes 418 cast bullets out at 1950, and a 1895 CB that has yet to be loaded for, but will probably tend towards the stiff side, if perhaps not as much as the 1885. It has to be my favourite case to load and shoot.

If you want more than 50 factory loadings buy the 45-70
If you want 1 or 2 factory loadings buy the 450.

If you want to increase your chances of buying ammo for your rifle when you're one place and the rest of your baggage is in another go 45-70. I think they're both good rounds and wouldn't hesitate to use either one but I went with the 45-70 after thinking it all out...

Thank's guys,but 2 days ago I recieved my brand new 45/70,model 1895 guidegun.She's a beut,just have to mount my aimpoint and get some ammo.Only ? I still have,I thought the guide gun had a ported barrel and mine does not?

Good choice on the 45/70.........Be thankful it ain't ported.......I think they got wise and stopped doing it----2MG

Nice rifle. I picked up the 1895GS a couple years ago and it wasn't ported either. I've been collecting my brass for the past couple years with the idea of getting into reloading someday. Then the fun really begins. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

"I thought the guide gun had a ported barrel and mine does not?"

By popular request Marlin dropped the porting. I'm glad they did.

+1 The .45/70 has been around well over 100 years now. I wouldn't bet a nickel that the .450 will be around for another 10.