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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 15,289 |
POCATELLO, Idaho – An eastern Idaho sheriff says he's investigating after a cyanide trap placed by federal authorities to kill coyotes injured a 14-year-old boy and killed his dog. Bannock County Sheriff Lorin Nielsen tells the Idaho State Journal ( http://bit.ly/2mCFmGu) that the device activated Thursday near Pocatello. Nielsen says the boy was taken to a hospital to be tested for cyanide poisoning but was not seriously injured and was released. The dog, a 3-year-old Lab named Casey, died. Nielsen says the device was placed in the area by the U.S. Department of Agriculture. It's a spring-activated device that is typically smeared with bait and shoots poison into an animal's mouth when it tugs on the trap. Federal authorities declined to comment when contacted Friday by The Associated Press. ___
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2013
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Saw signs where they had put that $hit, around in the area we antelope hunt in last year in WY.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,600 |
Don't buy into the liberal hurt puppy BS of that story.
Being certified in M-44 application, I can tell you with 100% certainty that any pasture containing even one M-44 is marked by big WARNING signs saying exactly what is in that pasture and that dogs running loose is at the owner's own risk.
Beyond that, each M-44 device used is very clearly marked by more WARNING signs at various distances from the device, in ALL directions.
The dog simply pulled the bait on the M-44 and died right there. They needn't have bothered taking the teenager to get checked out, because had he gotten a dose of it, he would have been laying right beside the dog.
M-44's have a very surprisingly LOW collateral damage record.
Hardly anything other than a targeted animal is ever killed by one.
There have indeed been stories by the environmental terrorists/animal rights idiots that were "Fake News" (Lies) about this for as long as they have been used.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Warning signs??? For young boys??? Yeah, that oughta work...
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,600 |
Warning signs??? For young boys??? Yeah, that oughta work... Just like "Danger! Rifle Range" signs... Intelligence and comprehension starts with the parents. After re-reading that story, it is nothing more than fear mongering propaganda. Theresa Mansfield, the boy’s mother, said her son was walking the family dog on a hillside behind their home on West Buckskin Road when they encountered the bomb. When it exploded, the boy was knocked onto his back and the dog was killed. One of the biggest lies I have ever even seen a tree hugger tell.  There is nothing remotely "explosive" about an M-44. It has a weak spring that makes a mousetrap spring look huge. No friggen way that anybody was "knocked" anywhere. The deceased dog, a 3-year-old lab named Casey, was covered with cyanide when found. That's pretty good coverage for about a 1/4 of a thimble full of powder with a "puff" range of less than a foot. The area behind the residence where the "cyanide bomb" exploded was a location frequented by the teenage boy. Now Mansfield is afraid to allow her children to go near the hill again. More horseschidt. NOTHING exploded. And nothing was "Near their house". USDA APHIS has strict guidlines as to how far away from houses, and private property owned by someone other than the rancher, the devices can even be set. The locations are also logged with GPS and records kept, and supervisors aware of where these are. The Bannock County Sheriff's Office is investigating an incident involving a predator control device that detonated killing a family's dog. The Sheriff's Office received the call earlier this date from the father indicating an unknown device had detonated in close proximity to his son and the family's dog. The incident occurred on a ridge line located above a residence on Buckskin Rd. The father indicated that the family dog had been killed and his son had been covered in an unknown substance as the device detonated. Luckily this child was not seriously injured. It was later determined that the device was placed at it's location by the Department of Agriculture. Lies, lies, and more lies. Once again, an M-44 is not explosives in any capacity. They don't "detonate". You may be able to hear the "click" if one is triggered very closely, and you have excellent hearing. The boy was NOT covered with any powder from the device. Again, it is a very small puff of powder. If the dog got a fatal dose, the "puff" was contained to the dog's mouth. Someone needs to go to jail for lying and filing false reports.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474 |
I"ve ZERO use for the damn things. They work though.
But running my trailing dog on our deer lease scares me. Even though he is rarely if ever off leash.
I just hate the idea of the things. Plus they kill anything and everything, not just target animals, unless your target is anything and everything. They target yotes on the deer lease. I see coons, fox, and a couple of goats almost every year.
They do at least put a sign on the gate. And a single sign at each site. I guess they do. I"d appreciate a bit better than a single sign above the M44, but I"d appreciate never seeing the damn things again.
Of course the govt trapper that runs ours also snares and kills at least a dozen or more deer from what I can tell a year by not putting snares in smart places..
And I'm far from a bunny hugger.
I"ve known more than a few ranchers down south that have as good or better luck with snares....
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,600 |
I"ve ZERO use for the damn things. They work though.
But running my trailing dog on our deer lease scares me. Even though he is rarely if ever off leash.
I just hate the idea of the things. Plus they kill anything and everything, not just target animals, unless your target is anything and everything. They target yotes on the deer lease. I see coons, fox, and a couple of goats almost every year.
They do at least put a sign on the gate. And a single sign at each site. I guess they do. I"d appreciate a bit better than a single sign above the M44, but I"d appreciate never seeing the damn things again.
Of course the govt trapper that runs ours also snares and kills at least a dozen or more deer from what I can tell a year by not putting snares in smart places..
And I'm far from a bunny hugger.
I"ve known more than a few ranchers down south that have as good or better luck with snares.... Jeff, they have to put more than one sign pointing to the device. Dept policy is at least 3 signs around each device. Aside from the warning signs at the entrances to the ranch and particular pastures. I have seen one fox taken. Never a bobcat or dog. But, it does rarely occur. I can't imagine why a goat would get killed by one. They do have Compound 1080 collars that are put around the necks of sheep and goats that contain poison, for when coyotes attack the animals, they bite into the collar killing usually the coyote and the sheep or goat. I've seen far more hunting dogs and hounds killed by snares than anything else. Hound guys, and guys with hunting dogs generally won't run their dogs in areas where snares, or M-44's are put it. (with good reason). You obviously lease from a landowner that uses M-44's. I'd be nervous about turning a dog loose there too. (Or find another lease that you can run the dog on...  )
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Joined: May 2016
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,307 |
If a kid is too young to read, it is too young to be out walking the dog far enough away from the house that they would encounter an m 44.
M 44's work, and like said above, are pretty safe.
Maybe the feds are using claymore mines in that area.
I am MAGA.
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Joined: Aug 2004
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,600 |
M-44's remain a mystery and a source of huge misinformation to most people. Even those familiar with predators, hunting, and the outdoors.
Hopefully, the facts are not confused with the realities so much after this thread.
While I have used them in both capacities as a Wildlife Specialist, and a rancher, I prefer other methods...
Trapping, shooting, hunting, calling, snaring.
I'm also of the opinion that if a rancher is ranching for a living, and depends on predator control to show a profit, and make a living for himself and his family, then HE ought to be the one out trapping and setting any device on his ranch for predators.
I don't feel like it's the responsibility of our federal gov't to do that for him.
USDA APHIS was largely defunded in the Obama years.
Many, many sheep and goat ranchers have lost the battle with predators. Most, in fact.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Joined: May 2008
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 25,511 |
The USDA is another agency that needs to be reigned back.
�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.
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~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Dec 2013
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2013
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I"ve ZERO use for the damn things. They work though.
But running my trailing dog on our deer lease scares me. Even though he is rarely if ever off leash.
I just hate the idea of the things. Plus they kill anything and everything, not just target animals, unless your target is anything and everything. They target yotes on the deer lease. I see coons, fox, and a couple of goats almost every year.
They do at least put a sign on the gate. And a single sign at each site. I guess they do. I"d appreciate a bit better than a single sign above the M44, but I"d appreciate never seeing the damn things again.
Of course the govt trapper that runs ours also snares and kills at least a dozen or more deer from what I can tell a year by not putting snares in smart places..
And I'm far from a bunny hugger.
I"ve known more than a few ranchers down south that have as good or better luck with snares.... This simply is not true. M44s are canine specific.They must be pulled with the mouth. Only canines do it.Other animals don't do it.That is why they work so good around other animals. You can put them right in livestock with no issues. When I set them I am required to put a sign on a stake by the device, and have signs on all gates. These people simply had a dog run loose chasing deer somewhere, and it found and pulled an M44. Then they wanted to blame someone for their running dog.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474 |
I"ve ZERO use for the damn things. They work though.
But running my trailing dog on our deer lease scares me. Even though he is rarely if ever off leash.
I just hate the idea of the things. Plus they kill anything and everything, not just target animals, unless your target is anything and everything. They target yotes on the deer lease. I see coons, fox, and a couple of goats almost every year.
They do at least put a sign on the gate. And a single sign at each site. I guess they do. I"d appreciate a bit better than a single sign above the M44, but I"d appreciate never seeing the damn things again.
Of course the govt trapper that runs ours also snares and kills at least a dozen or more deer from what I can tell a year by not putting snares in smart places..
And I'm far from a bunny hugger.
I"ve known more than a few ranchers down south that have as good or better luck with snares.... Jeff, they have to put more than one sign pointing to the device. Dept policy is at least 3 signs around each device. Aside from the warning signs at the entrances to the ranch and particular pastures. I have seen one fox taken. Never a bobcat or dog. But, it does rarely occur. I can't imagine why a goat would get killed by one. They do have Compound 1080 collars that are put around the necks of sheep and goats that contain poison, for when coyotes attack the animals, they bite into the collar killing usually the coyote and the sheep or goat. I've seen far more hunting dogs and hounds killed by snares than anything else. Hound guys, and guys with hunting dogs generally won't run their dogs in areas where snares, or M-44's are put it. (with good reason). You obviously lease from a landowner that uses M-44's. I'd be nervous about turning a dog loose there too. (Or find another lease that you can run the dog on... ) Interesting on the multiple signs.... I may have to snap a few pictures and then ask the trapper about rules and regs... actually not, that might get us kicked off... weird situation.... I"ve not seen a dead dog in a snare, but I"ve seen live ones for sure, seems when it snugs they stop around here and just wait. Yep, landowner doesn't want yotes around killing his goats. Goats suck for deer hunting as you know. But we don't have them every year. Just depends on rotation, browse vs rain etc.... I've really no choice at this time, well you know what I mean.. way to close of a drive, we are growing good deer, and its still somewhat affordable. When/if we get off the place, I'll likely not have a deer lease anymore. M44s do a good job and generally target the right animals, but I've seen enough of the other stuff killed to wonder. Not that its a big deal to loose a coon or a fox, but they aren't a specific killer. Now that you mention it, I"ve never seen a cat killed by one either. And when we had a lion on the place last year he set up snares to catch the lion and never did. If he would be smarter about the snare locations we wouldn't loose so many deer either but he and the landowner dont care. Landowner is an attorney and has flat told us since his dad died and so on... this is what you get, take it or leave it... sucks eh... LOL Only time I"ve turned our child Tiger loose is when he jumped a wounded 10 point, so he could bay him, ended up running him into a pond, and then came back when I called him off so we could shoot the deer again. We trail on a 25 foot lead. He did yank it out of my hand once, but that wasn't there, at least I have GPS on him from that day on...
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474 |
I"ve ZERO use for the damn things. They work though.
But running my trailing dog on our deer lease scares me. Even though he is rarely if ever off leash.
I just hate the idea of the things. Plus they kill anything and everything, not just target animals, unless your target is anything and everything. They target yotes on the deer lease. I see coons, fox, and a couple of goats almost every year.
They do at least put a sign on the gate. And a single sign at each site. I guess they do. I"d appreciate a bit better than a single sign above the M44, but I"d appreciate never seeing the damn things again.
Of course the govt trapper that runs ours also snares and kills at least a dozen or more deer from what I can tell a year by not putting snares in smart places..
And I'm far from a bunny hugger.
I"ve known more than a few ranchers down south that have as good or better luck with snares.... This simply is not true. M44s are canine specific.They must be pulled with the mouth. Only canines do it.Other animals don't do it.That is why they work so good around other animals. You can put them right in livestock with no issues. When I set them I am required to put a sign on a stake by the device, and have signs on all gates. These people simply had a dog run loose chasing deer somewhere, and it found and pulled an M44. Then they wanted to blame someone for their running dog. So a coon is a canine? I know a fox is. A goat certainly isnt' but we all know goats chew and pull on all kinds of crap at times.. But it is not canine specific. I've seen that a few times over with my own eyes. How do you know the dog was chasing deer? I might should read more... LOL
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474 |
[quote=Middlefork_Miner] Warning signs??? For young boys??? Yeah, that oughta work... Just like "Danger! Rifle Range" signs... Intelligence and comprehension starts with the parents. After re-reading that story, it is nothing more than fear mongering propaganda. Theresa Mansfield, the boy’s mother, said her son was walking the family dog on a hillside behind their home on West Buckskin Road when they encountered the bomb. When it exploded, the boy was knocked onto his back and the dog was killed. One of the biggest lies I have ever even seen a tree hugger tell. There is nothing remotely "explosive" about an M-44. It has a weak spring that makes a mousetrap spring look huge. No friggen way that anybody was "knocked" anywhere. The deceased dog, a 3-year-old lab named Casey, was covered with cyanide when found. That's pretty good coverage for about a 1/4 of a thimble full of powder with a "puff" range of less than a foot. The area behind the residence where the "cyanide bomb" exploded was a location frequented by the teenage boy. Now Mansfield is afraid to allow her children to go near the hill again. More horseschidt. NOTHING exploded. And nothing was "Near their house". USDA APHIS has strict guidlines as to how far away from houses, and private property owned by someone other than the rancher, the devices can even be set. The locations are also logged with GPS and records kept, and supervisors aware of where these are. The Bannock County Sheriff's Office is investigating an incident involving a predator control device that detonated killing a family's dog. The Sheriff's Office received the call earlier this date from the father indicating an unknown device had detonated in close proximity to his son and the family's dog. The incident occurred on a ridge line located above a residence on Buckskin Rd. The father indicated that the family dog had been killed and his son had been covered in an unknown substance as the device detonated. Luckily this child was not seriously injured. It was later determined that the device was placed at it's location by the Department of Agriculture. Lies, lies, and more lies. Once again, an M-44 is not explosives in any capacity. They don't "detonate". You may be able to hear the "click" if one is triggered very closely, and you have excellent hearing. The boy was NOT covered with any powder from the device. Again, it is a very small puff of powder. If the dog got a fatal dose, the "puff" was contained to the dog's mouth. Someone needs to go to jail for lying and filing false reports. [/quote Anyone thats taken classes on M44s would know all this. Alas the media isn't that smart... I've taken the classes... Parents are drama queesns, thats what media looks for....
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 19,476
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 19,476 |
Interesting on the multiple signs.... I may have to snap a few pictures and then ask the trapper about rules and regs... actually not, that might get us kicked off... weird situation....
I"ve not seen a dead dog in a snare, but I"ve seen live ones for sure, seems when it snugs they stop around here and just wait.
Yep, landowner doesn't want yotes around killing his goats. Goats suck for deer hunting as you know. But we don't have them every year. Just depends on rotation, browse vs rain etc....
I've really no choice at this time, well you know what I mean.. way to close of a drive, we are growing good deer, and its still somewhat affordable. When/if we get off the place, I'll likely not have a deer lease anymore.
M44s do a good job and generally target the right animals, but I've seen enough of the other stuff killed to wonder. Not that its a big deal to loose a coon or a fox, but they aren't a specific killer.
Now that you mention it, I"ve never seen a cat killed by one either. And when we had a lion on the place last year he set up snares to catch the lion and never did.
If he would be smarter about the snare locations we wouldn't loose so many deer either but he and the landowner dont care. Landowner is an attorney and has flat told us since his dad died and so on... this is what you get, take it or leave it... sucks eh... LOL
Only time I"ve turned our child Tiger loose is when he jumped a wounded 10 point, so he could bay him, ended up running him into a pond, and then came back when I called him off so we could shoot the deer again. We trail on a 25 foot lead. He did yank it out of my hand once, but that wasn't there, at least I have GPS on him from that day on...
You named your kid "Tiger"? That's badass!
MAGA
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25,092
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25,092 |
Even cooler he bays 10 point bucks!
“Life is life and fun is fun, but it's all so quiet when the goldfish die.”
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,307
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,307 |
We still have a govt hunter out here, but he cant do the job he used to do. Not sure what we pay him for anymore.
I am MAGA.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 67,694
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 67,694 |
folks don't want coyotes around. They don't like efforts to control coyotes either. The government is is at fault for allowing coyotes being there, and at fault for eradicating them.
Can't win, as with so many other issues. Folks just can't seem to take care of their own problems anymore.
Everyone is pizzed 90% of the time, for one reason or another. Sad
Sam......
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,307 |
folks don't want coyotes around. They don't like efforts to control coyotes either. The government is is at fault for allowing coyotes being there, and at fault for eradicating them.
Can't win, as with so many other issues. Folks just can't seem to take care of their own problems anymore.
Everyone is pizzed 90% of the time, for one reason or another. Sad Thats for damn sure. Those traps were not out there for the hell of it. Someone was tired of loosing pets to coyotes.
I am MAGA.
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,600
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,600 |
In the early 70's the EPA banned compound 1080. At the time it was banned, it accounted for 80% of the coyote control in the U.S. 80%... It was THE most effective tool for coyote control ever. In many areas of the U.S. people rarely saw coyotes. That was in part, due to compound 1080. Now that it isn't in use, there are coyotes coming back to areas that sighting were rare. It did have a substantial collateral damage level though. All the hunting, trapping, shooting, and M-44's in use today don't come close to how many coyotes were killed with 1080.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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