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Wow. Why the hostility? You have doubts about the existence of heaven, but are pretty sure I'm going to hell? First of all, I didn't say anything about anyone going to hell. Not my call to make. But I maintain that if you are doubting the existence of Heaven and your certainty of getting there when you die, then your faith would seem to need strengthening. If I misread your, or any other's post about this, then I am sorry.

Just Steelhead being Steelhead. He vacillates between knowledgeable and the village idiot. I think he prefers the latter.

my daughter died of cancer at 4yr old.
I never considered blaming God !

Isn't man made in God's Image?

Pretty messed up type of god, imo.

Then do it your way and see what that gets you. Good luck with that.

Only God know's man's heart, and only God will judge accordingly. Man doesn't know squat.

I guess you dont see the contradiction i see.

Just one of the things that keeps me from believing anymore.

People / Humans take everything for granted - If we had zero tragedy that forced us to appreciate life, and come to terms, we would never grow, and become EVEN BIGGER jerks than we are now.

So the “world” is setup in a way that humans need it to be in order to be at least half acceptable, and grow good sides, without it, we’d only grow our bad sides.
Our “understanding of Fair” is what bothers us... but we tend not to learn how to be fair without something forcing us to face it.

I wish I could explain more than that but I can’t... it’s all I got when I prayed about it, but somehow I know in my heart that suffering is required for us to grow spiritually... (having tear jerking thoughts as I write this).


Sorry for anyone’s loss, hard situations at hand.

Spot

Only He may judge...

Well but we were made in his image. So let’s all have at it. That’s written in there right? I mean it wouldn’t be so prevalent a behavior if God specifically said not to a bunch of times. That’d be blasphemous after all.

We are supposed to be His sheep.

He missed the part about the board in ones eye because of the board in his eye.

Before a human questions God, he needs to spend some time trying to explain to a earthworm how to write computer code.

God would have as much success explaining his ways to you as you would have explaining code to an earthworm.

We live in a fallen, broken world. It's supposed to hurt and be very difficult. Expecting anything different will leave you bitter and angry.

Well said and spot on. Depends on the hour of the day, bordering on bipolar.

We're supposed to be His children and joint heirs with Christ. References to sheep are allegory.

That’s an unanswerable question but a good one.

Another good one is how we determine the standard by which innocence is defined for purposes of calling into question God apart from the existence of the Judeo-Christian God?

Right on.

There is a big difference between causing something to happen and allowing things to happen. When Adam and Eve along with Satan chose to rebel in God's perfect wisdom he allowed them to walk there own road as a proving point for all to witness. You have to remember when the rebellion happened all the angels in heaven were watching as Satan made untrue accusations. Had God destroyed the rebels immediately how would the faithful angels or future mankind ever have a conclusive answer as to who was right or who was wrong. It is noteworthy that 1/3 of the angels followed Satan at the time of the rebellion while 2/3 remained loyal. When Adam and Eve died the first lie Satan told was exposed as Satan had said if you eat from the tree you positively will not die.

Mankind's bad choices are the cause of all the problems and God in his perfect wisdom simply allowed there unwise course as proof for all to see. Contrary to causing bad things to happen the God of heaven set up a Kingdom with his Son Jesus who remained loyal even to death as King to make a way out for obedient mankind. The point has been made at this point and as the Bible says.........

Daniel 12:4 During the time of the end many will rove about and the True Knowledge will become abundant.

Mathew 24:14 The Good News of the Kingdom will be preached as a witness to all the nation's and than the end will come.

Pslams 37: 10-11 Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no more, but the meek will posses the earth and they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of Peace!

Psalms 37:34 Hope in God and follow his way, and he will exalt you to take possession of earth. When the wicked are done away with , you will see it!






Trystan

Amen Trystan.

Legit question...…... Not an answer, but couple of thoughts:

God is in charge and He has His purposes. Much of the time, we cannot see His purpose. Sometimes we can see but only in the rear view mirror.

The child's cancer and death may be an act of mercy and love. How so? Perhaps he looked at the child and the life circumstances that the child would face and called that innocent child home to be with Him, thus avoiding much heartbreak and trouble for that child. Yep, I know, this goes against what beliefs many of us have about God, innocence and His purpose.

The is a wry saying about that... the good die young ........ but I am going to live to 400. My wife was called home too early and when she was close to death, I asked her if she was ready for that "short jump to glory." She said she was and was looking forward to it. She then told me she was the fortunate one. Then she asked me if I was ready for that "long tough road ahead?" She was indeed proven correct in that assessment.

Further, God may use the tragic death circumstances of a child or anyone else, to cause people to ponder, think, turn to God for solace and a myriad of other reasons that only God can know. God may be getting a twofer here. An act of mercy and love for the child and then a chance to have people caught up in the circumstance to turn to and find Him.


Most of us have been affected by death of a loved one. Hard to make sense of it, but I do believe that there is sense to be made of it..... God knows it … but I do not.

Or to put it another way there are all sorts of people throughout the Bible who question aloud what God is up to and even seem to argue with Him over it but who are portrayed in a positive light. The act of questioning and doubting isn’t sinful; the haughty presumption behind “giving this so-called god a peice of my mind” is.

The very fact that we have a standard by which to question Him, rational faculties by which to formulate the question, and a conception that He is there to be questioned all prove He is real and has revealed Himself to us rather clearly.

It isn’t the quality or quantity of ones faith that must be worked on but ensuring that the object is appropriate. My rational faculties aren’t sufficient to bear up under the weight of these central questions of existence. For me to put my faith in that would be folly.