Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Bowhunting Group size?

I am practicing with my bow alot, am not as accurate is i would like to be, but can keep 5 arros in the black of "the block" at 20 yards, at 30 i can usually keep 2-3 in, and at 40 about the same, usually 2 in the black. all close enough to take out the heart/lungs of any deer.

When I was shooting 60 to 70 shafts a day, I considered hitting a snuff can at 40 yards everytime pretty fair....

a snuff can is about the size of my black dots on my block. thas pretty good. hope to be able to do that. i think part of my problem is my eyes. im only 21 but dont have the best eye sight, i need to go get more contacts and i think id be better. can shoot a rifle with a good scope real well.

Practice makes perfect and good eyes are a must....

I'll bet I haven't shot 60 arrows in the last four years...and 40 yards is now out of the realm of reality.

Just haven't been into it lately......

see, another thing is i am just getting back into it. i got my bow in december ( a Mathews Q2) it could have a 30" draw lenght instead of a 29 but i still think i do pretty well for the amount of practice. i am confident i can kill out to 40, but thats as far as i will push it.

Most of my bow kills have been nearly straight down......

Funny how that works.

i always considered that putting your shots in a coffee cup diameter every time is a good indicator for hunting. after all, these are not target bows we're talking about. at whatever distance i can accomplish this, i will feel comfortable to shoot in the woods.

-ken

Once shooting form is consistent, I think single-arrow "groups" within an area the size of the lungs of your hunted animal at constantly changing unknown distances are the only "groups" that matter. And the FIRST shot is the most important.

Just my $.02 from the way I was taught.

I love to go out in the woods and shoot 100 arrows at a target but hunting is usually a one-arrow/one-shot deal and it's good for me to occasionally practice like that.

It takes a lot of shots to refine form and work the bugs out of the system.

Pretty much the only way to achieve that is to shoot consistantly small groups at a known yardage...as that's the most convenient measure for most to go by.

I do agree with the one shot group after form is mastered, but it takes a long time to get there. Hand in hand with one shot groups is mastering range estimation...all is for naught without that.

When I shot more than 100 arrows a day in my youth(working at a sporting goods store with a range) I could hold minute of coke can to about 70-80 yards reliably. IF the distance was known. Those were the days of guessing or the old dial rangefinders...

I'd never think thats good for hunting though. The arrow being so much slower than speed of sound, the noise gets to them 4 times faster than the arrow, which means, around here, they almost always have moved by the time the arrow hits. Which means my max range is 20 yards and I hate those logn shots. I strive for 10 and under.

Accuracy up close? 20 yards I could touch your arrow every time I shot. At least with fletching. We plaid tag at 20 yards all the time. And you had to have nerves of iron to stick the arrow an inch or less from a steel corner AND have iron to chase it in there to tag it.

Those were the old aluminum days. hard to split an arrow but I managed one only. But blew plenty of knocks off and dented many an end. These days with hollow small carbon shafts, I'd think that splitting arrows would be so easy it would be costly.

Good luck, Jeff

I practice for hunting, not target shooting... so a 3D or like target with vital (heart/lung) markings is what I prefer. I don't like shooting at anything other than what I need to focus on... ie Deer, Bear, Elk, Moose and bison.

I may set up two or three differant targets and shoot just one arrow at each, after all in the woods, your only going to get one shot.

JB

I"ll add though-- one arrow is great to replicate the chances you get in the field, BUT practice is paramount to get the skill level and to retain that skill level.

Hence the use of both multiple arrows at a known point(target shooting) and the single arrow at the 3D target.

Both are needed and both compliment each other.

Casey, at some point you have to know if your bow is the problem of if you are the problem. Bows are much more individual than a rilfe. So getting another driver to test it is tough and not rerpresentative either. YOu need a good coach or shooter to watch form, check tuning etc.... 40 yards you should be able to touch fletchings every shot. You should be able to drop them all in a 3 inch group easily, save the 'bad' shots on your part. IE call them off and then hit off its as good as an X.

Jeff

I am hunting with the Metro Bowhunters Resource Base and they require us to take a shooting test before hunting. We need to hit a 6" target at 20 yards with 5 out of 7 arrows to hunt.
They consider it most important that you only take standing shots at broadside deer and double lung them or hold your fire.
Most deer won't hang around while you shoot groups at them.
If you can put your arrows in a 4" target you are considered you are a sharpshooter and are selected for high profile hunts in downtown areas, etc.
Somebody has to do it.

whelennut

I like to shoot paper to get form and tuning down. Once that's done most is 3D and stumps. Another fun thing is take a golf ball and shoot at it around the yard with blunts or judos. My 7 yr old son shoots with me, its a blast. Rodents are another target of opportunity.

aim small, miss small.

what i have noticed about me is when i am shooting at just a plain ole target ie the block.. groups seem to be OK- a lil big. however, when i am at home shooting at my dads 3D target, groups are tighter. the best group i shot at 40 yards was a "bag_ target that had the heart/lung area outlined. i put 5 arrows in the heart and have never shot a group like that since.

Practice and concentrate on a small spot not an area,on live game pic a hair to shoot at.

I think there is a bit of misunderstanding here...

One shot groups for "hunting" vs. multiple shot groups being considered target shooting and thus not applicable to "hunting".

A true bow hunter can judge an unknown distance to a "target" and place an arrow in the spot at which he is looking. "Missing small" as Scott says...

To get to that point it takes a lot of shooting and refining of form. To get that, one needs to know; if his POA is correct, his pins are correct...if there are any glitches in form.

All that can be determined by shooting multiple arrows into a target at a known distance to see if all is consistant. "Measured" by the size of the group that was shot.

Personally I never was a fan of wrecking arrows into other arrows to see if I was a good shot or not. So I took to shooting one arrow at each spot on a practice bag. By studying the 5 arrows' impact point it was easy to see a "group". I've also stuck white cleaning patches into arrow holes in my 3D target, doing the same thing, shooting one arrow at each tiny spot of white, that is how I still practice with broadheads. It doesn't take long to narrow the factors that affect shooting ability.

And, ironically it became easy to find differences in impact point with different arrows. Albeit I only saw very small differences but by keeping track of which arrow was shot at which spot it was funny to see that same arrow hit or very narrowly miss where it had hit the last shot, with the next arrow in the next spot being consistantly high, low, left or right...right where it had impacted previously. I used that little bit of trivial results to pick which arrows needed a better tune and also which arrow was first out of the bow when taking a shot at a deer.

wildswalker

I agree, and well said....

dvdegeorge

Very nice indeed on your insert there.

Absolutely! Unknown distances are the hardest! As far as target practice Aim small miss small. I color in black dots about the size of a quarter and shoot out to 50 yds with my switchback XT. The best thing you can do is move the target around and shoot from every angle. One more thing, put the range finder up during practice!

Spent about an hour shooting at a spongebob golf ball with my son yesterday. All unknown distances. Hit it a couple of times but just missed most times. Even wacked a rodent that thought he was safe in the barn. May go look for shed antlers and shoot stumps tonight.

when i am in the back yard shooting small finches frequently land in the yard to pick up grass and bugs.. big mistake! i think i have taken out a few in the past few days, but also busted a few arrows! i may start letting them fly away! they make great practice!

Overheard from a fellow bowhunter:

"To determine your maximum bowhunting distance place your 3D deer target in front of the door of your wife's new car. Step back as far as you feel confident then shoot it with your wife watching. That's your maximum distance."

Finches-- thats a dangerous word on the net!! Be careful.

Lost, I"d be thinking 20 yards. But I'd be afraid the arrow would pass through... be my luck...

Jeff

Jeff, just a generic term for them...

no wife, but would go about 20 yards if it were my truck behind it!

Casey,

Duwane Adams told me this:
Get your pins sighted in at the desired yardage. After that don't shoot from them again after your first few warm up shots when you shoot. you want to be a shooter or a killer? He asked me. He said if I want to be a shooter shoot at the pin distances. If I want to learn to be a killer learn my bow. After the warm up shots, take a few steps back or forward. learn where your bow is going to hit at those odd distances. because not every field shot will be at 20, 30, 40 yards. They may be 15 or 37 or 22 yards. The flight may not change much, but at times it might. Learn angles and shooting from your knees. If you can't pull your bow back from the kneeling position comfortably then your bow is set to high. he said after you sight in your bow, groups are useless when learning the bow.

So now what I do is get a paper plate and set it up. If I can hit the plate then I can kill what I am hunting. I shoot 1 arrow from a distance see where it hits. If I hit the plate I move yardages. If i miss I shoot again. Sometimes I act like I am hunting. If I miss I'll take a few steps back like the animal has ran a few steps and shoot again. I practice shooting standing up, standing on steps, kneeling like I am behind a tree or cactus. Until my mom caught me on the roof, I would shoot off of it when I lived with her and acted like i was shooting down hill.
A paper plate is about 12 inches or so in diameter. Thats a kill zone to me. I can draw lungs a heart or whatever on it, but to me if I can hit that plate I am good to go.

Heck if it works for Duwane and his clients, then why wouldn't I take his advice.

Kique

Its not like Duwane has killed any big animals :D:D:D!!!

i actually did a walk through at the local archery range yesterday. we walked through the 3d shoot... the first 2 or 3 shots we would shoot from the yardage markers, but after that we would shoot at the target when it first presented actual field shot and an unknown distance... i actually did well which surprised me because i am pretty much a rookie at bow hunting.

The first time I did that I thought it was the best opportunity ever. It turned out to be one of the longest tracking jobs I'd ever done and is now one of my least favorite shots. A deer with one lung can run a helluva long way. I like to get up a little ways in the tree and like them ~15-20 yards away so I can poke both lungs.....

I have had the same shot, with the same results. I also prefer my shots to be 20 to 30 yards. As for groups it is important to have what I call bow strength and endurance. By practicing you will devolop the strength to pull the bow back smoothly, and the endurance to hold your form while the animal presents you with the best possible shot. I also practice to become familar with my equipment. However, it is as important to be able to judge distances, from an elevated stand inches matter! I have read that some try to hit skoal, coffee cans or plates and they are ready to go. I am from Texas and mostly hunt whitetail, often the deer jump your strings (especially when spooked) at shots outside 25 yards. One of the best things you can do is during the off-season cary your range finder into the woods and guess distances then range them! What makes bowhunting such an adrenaline rush is the fact that it takes patience, practice and everything has to come together at once. I haven't gotten much rush out of shooting my block, so it is hard to compare a practice situation to a hunting situation.

I now prefer ground blinds. I can rest easier, and snag some really good double lungs without worrying about angles.

Though in the area I rifle hunt, I have to be a bit up to see any amount of area in E TX thickets.

Jeff

Think spine.....if you are taking me literally.

Not hard to poke both lungs at 10ish yards, and I like the low exit for maximum leakage....

What if you hafta shoot through a coffee cup to get at that paper plate..?

Being able to control your gear into tiny groups MEANS you can shoot. How you get there is up to you but being prepared for the worst case scenario is never a bad idea.

Hittin' the broad side of a critter is one thing, but sneakin' a shaft through a tight spot to hit that critter in the broad side is a whole 'nuther ball game.

Shoot groups until they are SMALL...or shoot spots until you can HIT every one. It don't make a damn what the yardage is...if you can judge it and know what you can do at that yardage, your confidence will take over and blood will spill.