Home Forums Lever Action Central Big Bore Levers sometimes IM BAFFELED & confused by the choice made

was at the local gun show recently and overheard advice being given to a obvious new guy to big game hunting, (about 35 years old) from one of the dealers

the newbee to big game hunting, was trying to decide between a marlin 35 rem,,375 win , and 444 marlin, HE was 100% sure he wanted a MARLIN LEVER RIFLE and those were the suggested calibers his buddies had used in the past successfully, ranges tended to be UNDER 50-70 yards from the info given, and he was to hunt bear and deer on a cousins farm in maine, next year, as I eves dropped the dealer suggested a 30/30 (more because he HAD one than because he was listening even 1/2 the time )I asked if he had ever shot a rifle and he said , no, but he had used a 3" 12 gauge pump remington to hunt ducks for many years.
I asked if price was a major issue, did he intend to buy a scope, and a few more questions, he replied that he had been informed by his cousin that scopes were nearly useless in the snow & rain and that ranges tended to be so short they were not really useful....
now the dealer didn,t have anything but the 30/30 and when I suggested he look further at the differant tables contents the dealer gave me a look that would cripple a small child.....then told this guy that the 30/30 shot flatter and hit harder than those OLD FASHION CALIBERS.
that ticked me off, I could understand the guy getting pissed because he might loose a quick sale, but WHY LIE TO THE CUSTOMER!
I wondered off, but ran into the guy about 30 minutes LATER, at a second table where he had purchased a win 94 in 44 mag????
I inquired as to the marlin??, he said he was told the 44 mag hit harder than any of those calibers he had been looking for and held 6 shots not 4 like the others....and "LOOK AT THE BORE SIZE!! its obviously a larger bullet than the 35 rem or 375 win, and holds more shots than the 444 marlin, which would just kick harder" I just smiled and walked away.....sometimes you don,t even want to get envolved..

Under the conditions you described, it will probably work just fine, and he will go on happily hunting with it .

I learned long ago that being behind a gun show table or gunstore counter did not imbue anyone with extra knowledge or wisdom -- though many seem to think it does.

On the other side of the coin, at our little gun show a few weeks ago, I watched a guy excitedly calling his friend about the "great price on an AK-47!". When my buddy, who had the table, patiently explained to him that it was an SKS, the guy rather brusquely dismissed him and insisted it was a pristine AK-47.

Ignorance you can do something about, but there ain't no ready cure for stupid.

I agree with MD that at the ranges and the game suggested, the .44 mag should work out fine-assumin of course, that he uses proper ammo.
Win. 94s in .44 mag tend to be quite accurate, So the new rifleman will probably be right happy.
Still, there is somethin that smells a lil funny in this story, folks not exactly followin the straight an narrow, an it seems to be cuz of that almighty dollar.

I know I am missing something� but what was wrong with the 30-30?

Unless you load your own (this guy did not seem to) the 30-30 is the easiest of the first group (35 rem,,375 win , and 444 marlin) to find ammo for, and it should stop a Black Bear at 50 Yrds�

I know it was not what the guy was asking for� but was it a poor choice?

the 30/30 would have been ADEQUATE for the application just as the 44 mag will be, thats not the point of the story as far as Im concerned, its that this guy was BOTH basically in need of advice/instruction and information, and KNEW or at least thought he KNEW what he was looking for, yet the dealers were more concerned with making a sale, moving current inventory, than filling a specific request or superficially teaching this guy to make an informed choice as to why he should sellect one caliber over a differant one.
I had tried to help, but it was very obvious that the dealer didn,t want him informed/instructed, and just wanted to move inventory.
now Ive hunted with or reloaded for guys that hunt with all those calibers , personally if limited to just those three Id have sellected either a 35 rem (cheap and fairly easy to find ammo)or a 444 marlin,(HITS NOTICABLY HARDER) ( I owned and hunted deer & hogs with one for years)I swapped to a 45/70, then a 450 marlin and at least in my opinion upgraded noticable in the process.
yet none of that is really as important as was the way this guy was treated in my opinion, no-one took the time to explain things even briefly, and the guy didn,t seem all that interested in researching the best choice EITHER,.. THAT KIND OF BOTHERS ME!,simply because hes probably far from an isolated case, how are we going to promote and expand or even retain our hobby if the newer guys are treated almost like they are dealing with the equivalant of sleazy used car dealers, seems no one gives a darn. or takes new guys aside and talks to them.

HELPING the new guys learn,and prepare and get the correct equipment , gain the skills and making new friends,is one of the REASONS I enjoy ELK,& DEER & HOG ,hunting, its getting the new guys in camp,quickly up too speed and seeing them get thier first ELK,DEER, HOG ETC. look I may be insane but Id rather see my sons or a new guy in camp get an ELK,DEER or HOG,BEAR than get one myself durring the first few days of a hunt, and Im far more concerned that they get something legal BEFORE they get discouraged, WHY? IF I drop an ELK,DEER.BEAR, it usually requires time and work BEFORE THEY get thier game and it tends to take away from thier hunt, it can become work, not fun, thats not a great way to start out a new guy!

when I started out as a 18 year old ELK hunter I had 3 old guys from minn. and two old guys from WISC. who were fathers and uncles of my friends introduce me to the skills and take me aside, tell me what was expected, took me to the range, ETC. and bring me up to speed as an ELK HUNTER, every one of these old geezers treated me like a cousin, or nephew, and it made the process friendly, enjoyable and something to look forward too all year.
they got together every year and drove to colorado, most years they met in KANSAS CITY and drove from there in a group, at one point they were all neighbors in MINN. but as jobs and familys moved the group was spread fropm florida to minn.,ark, wisc. NC. , yet the GROUP continued to meet every year and hunt, yeah, some members missed years due to health, finances, deaths, etc. but we added new members and for 35 years at least 3-6 guys continued the tradition,and the group has about 15 semi active members who try to go at least every third year, and we all keep in touch by phone and E-mail. almost weekly

You could rent a table at the gun shows, just to offer free advice. Maybe set out a jar for tips.

walker, thats a good idea...i am concerned sometimes when i see these things happen at gun shows. For anyone experienced that sees this, play "stupid" at a booth sometime to hear the un-believeable things these "experienced" salesman and gunsmiths have to say.

This is why I offered to help houndgirl from here get her first couple of guns at a gun show. My partner and I encouraged her to take her time and she got good value on good guns that she will have and enjoy for a long time. Probably looked seriously at 20-30 guns and there were LOTS of questions. I find such things fun and rewarding. I try hard at my tables to be informative, low key and helpful, but gun show gun sales are not my livlihood by a long shot. Some of these guys are trying to eek out a living in this rough biz which would RUIN it all for me. Still, no excuses for being the kind of ass the guy with the 30/30 was or whoever sold this guy the 44Mag. An OK gun, but I agree could have done much better with a 444 or a 45/70.

I have seen and been the recipient of that 'cold look of death' from a gun show table renter but I will jump in if I see horseshit. I care for our sport and the success of new shooters a LOT more than I care about my popularity with an unethical dealer.

Nothing at all.The Salmon River country part of Idaho,I live in was settled for the most part with the 30-30 and the likes.They fed there family's with Elk/Moose/Deer and Bear with mostly that cartridge..Creeks are named after these people and a very good friend that lived up the Salmon River from buckskin Billie,her father used nothing else to feed and protect.

Many stories of the gun writers of old pulling over at there place rafting down the Salmon and sitting by the fire with some shine.It would shock you what they really thought if they weren't getting paid for it.

Jayco

Just goes to show you how little ethics really matter to most people. I've seen people snowed maliciously to make a buck and also just given bad info because the dumbass didn't know any better. As somebody says, the gunshow racket is rough.

It could have been a lack of ethics. Then again it could have been nothing more than a difference of opinion.

All the cartridges mentioned were quite appropriate to the purchaser's needs and he could not go wrong with any of them. Personally I would not get my nose out of joint over it when the buyer seemed perfectly happy with his final choice. After all his opinion is more important than mine.

MD got it right. Never try to teach a pig to sing, it annoys the pig and wastes your time.

Funny that he was told that the .44 Mag hits harder than the .444 Marlin when they shot the exact same bullet diameter. It would be like a .22 short hitting harder than a .22 lr.
As several have said, at least he does have a rifle that will be adequate for his intended use.