Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles why do hunters get talked into ........

It never hurts to spend a few extra bucks on a good scope. Its mechanical integrity is the only thing that insures rifle and your sight are pointing in the same direction. Guess what I'm saying is, if you gotta make a decision between a "bubble-pack" variable, or a solid fixed power of GOOD make, take the fixed power. This is not about getting it done for as cheap as you can...

saddlesore: FWIW, I've found many scopes will crap out at about 20 rounds of .375 H&H (these under $100) and even the better ones ($250-$350) at about 600 rounds. I've wrecked two of two Leupy handgun scopes ($250 range) one on a .44 and one on a .454.
I've wrecked a couple Bushnelles on a .338 (<100 rds) and 4 leupy scopes (VX-II) on .375s. These tended to last about 600 rounds give or take. I've stuck with leupy as their repair/replacement CS has always come through in < 14 days.
I've had one scope fail (Vari-X II) on a .270

maybe I'm jinxed or maybe I shoot >1000 rds per year of .30 + guns and stuff happens....

I can't like the cheap crap . . .

UtahLefty, I'd say what you described is about par for the course.........

I normally use to run a several thousand rounds a year in competition, but the 7 mag never got a lot of use. I did rebarrel it with a douglas barrel after awhile. I mostly shoot handgun now, 5-6000 rounds per year. Less shoulder stress. So just because someone says they only shot a gun 150 rds or so a year, don't automaticaly assume they don't shoot or know what they are talking about.
UTahlefty. That is some good info. I asked becasue I was curious. I was just wondering exactly how many guys actually trashed out scopes or just heard about them.

Utah: You are not jinxed! Been about my experience as well. My benchrest shooting buddies tell me after 800 rounds, replace the scope whether it needs it or not, especially a variable.

I will say that the scope that has lasted the longest, taken the worst pounding, and kept trucking, is the old, "long" 4X leup. I have broken only one in many years of use, and that one lived its entire life on 300 WM's, 338's and finally quit on a blown out 35/375 Improved. Have no idea exactly how many rounds but it numbered in the thousands.

good to have some corroboration guys! (and find out I'm not a total freak )
bob: that reminds me: I currently have one of the old M8 4x scopes on one 375. It crapped out after < you guessed it 650-700 rds>. They took it apart and never documented anything but it seems to work again after the overhaul -- only have about 80 rds through it so far...

Utah: 700 rounds of 375 is a lot of abuse. That old one of mine went from rifle to rifle; it was beat up just from being remounted so much, and hunted . Back then I did not think they ever broke! Then, in the late 80's and early 90's , I started using variables....the troubles began..................


Anyone tells me they NEVER broke a scope, they are unwittingly saying they don't shoot too much........

SRWSHOOTER,

If you have to ask a question like that, you'll never understand the answer.

To some, guns are just tools, nothing more. To others, they are more, much more.

Put yourself into either camp, although it's obvious form your question where you are.

Both camps work equally well, it just a matter of how you get there.

'Nuff said.

MM

saddlesore �

A person never HAS to �spend a lot of cash on a scope�.

One generally DOES, however, get what one pays for. As noted in my previous posts, the Bushnell Sportview that served so well for 20 years in other aspects, including taking a lot of abuse, was not a good scope in low light situations. Nor was the image as bright, clear and crisp as my more expensive scopes. When it broke it was a throw-away.

Already talked about my two scope failures, no need to repeat it here. I will say I thought I had a failure on a Simmons 44 Mag 6.5-20x AO that was mounted on my Savage .22-250. Simmons replaced the scope with a Whitetail Expedition. The problem turned out to be the rifle rather than the scope. I sold the rifle and got another .22-250. And I liked the Simmons 44 Mag so much better than the Whitetail Expedition that I bought another one.

In my safe you will find the following:

Simmons Whitetail Expedition 6.5-18x AO w/ target knobs, factory replacement for Simmons 44Mag which was around $150 new.
Simmons 44 Mag, 6.5-20x illuminated mil-dot w/ target knobs, purchased used, $115. (.22-250)
Simmons Aetec 2.8-10x AO, purchased new in 2002, around $145. (7mm Mag)
Leupold M8 4x, purchased used, $100. (.375 Win)
Leupold M8 4x, used, came on like new Ruger M77 .257 Roberts, $400 for the combo.
Leupold M8 2x pistol scope, purchased used, $100. (.44 Mag)
Leupold VX II 2-7x 33, purchased new, $275. (.45-70)
Leupold Vari-X III 4.5-14x AO, purchased used, $350. (.257 Roberts)
Leupold Vari-X III 3.5-10x AO, purchased used, $350. (.308 Win)
Burris Fullfield II Ballistic Plex 3-9x, purchased new, $189. (.300 Win Mag)
Burris Fullfield II Ballistic Plex 3-9x, purchased new, $189 (.30-06)
Bushnell 3-9x32 Sportview, came on (and immediately removed from) a very good condition Marlin .30-30, $225 for the combo.

Of those scopes, the only one that will never get mounted on a rifle is the Bushnell Sportview. Some day it will go to a gun show and it won�t come back. Who knows, I might get lucky and get $10 for it. I COULD mount it up and COULD shoot a lot of game with it, but no thanks, there are, IMHO, far better options.

srwshooter,

You come here with a whopping 212 posts in almost 2 years and you call people out on thier choice of gear. Some, as they are want to do here, wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt with your original post. I'll break it down:



I've never seen anybody talked in to anything on this or any other site. I see people routinely ask for advice and hash out why something is recommended over another. I have read people who have made their own comparisons and have become enlightened to quality, or more importantly the best value that combines price point and good quality. And dammit, some people have the means and can afford anything they want and will buy the best they can. You mentioned a friend that's always buying more, newer, better equipment but still can't shoot. We all know someone like that. I also know people that own $hitty equipment and blame the equipment everytime they miss. AND I can trade you stories about guys that can afford things you and I can't even dream of AND can shoot circles around me or you too. I know a man that has several, not just one, custom made and fitted shotguns...the kinds that costs $10K plus. His latest projects have been in side by side 410s so as to make shooting a little more of a challenge for him. He will absolutely wear out just about anybody but a full time professional shooter on sporting clays, a dove field, quail, or ducks...and he does it with the most expensive shotguns you can imagine in .410 and 28ga.

Do you have plates and silverwear to eat off and with? Do you need more than a paper plate and your fingers to get food in your mouth? Chairs and sofa in your living room? The floor wont hold you just fine? Own or rent a home, apt, or trailor? Why not just a tarp strung in the trees? Dale Jr. and Jeff Gordon don't need them fancy race cars to make it around the track at Talladega...a Yugo would get them around and around.



I saved this seperate from the above as it needs special attention. Better? Nope, gonna call BS on that! Thats NOT true, and you couldn't possibly back that claim up except by qualifying the claim at the end with: "then sicmost hunters need." How much accuracy one needs is really something not worth debate, as its an individual thing, AND depdends on each individual shot's conditions. If you'll read the responses carefully, you can see that while the above is not true I'll give you that on any day a cheap gun and scope might likely shoot as well as a well tuned, "high end" gun and scope. However the tone of the majority of posts is that people here have discovered that better equipment on the whole will perform as good or usually better, and be more durable and trustworthy over time and in rough conditions. While I agree that on any day, if you bought the right gun (one accurate out of the box), and got your "cheap scope" mounted in the "cheap rings" properly and tight, and loaded the right ammo for it or in it, it will shoot as accurately as any gun. But, I'd wager it wont shoot that way every day over the long haul of abusive hunting, wont hold POI year after year, and will, on average have something crap out far more often than a "more expensive" rig.



Now, maybe those wanting to give you the benefit of the doubt were still right...maybe you meant specifically ONLY those saying you need guns/glass/rings at those very specific price points are crazy. However I read the whole tone of your post as an general indictment of those that prefer more than you are willing to spend or can afford. I have never posted anything on this forum demanding anybody else justify the equipment they run or the money they spent...even though some of it may not be what I'd run whether I could afford it or not. You have no business doing it either.




I wont even go there on your brag about the number of deer per year...yadda yadda yadda. Too many issues and attitudes there that are personal and varied.

I said it before, I'll say it again. Run what you want in the field. It's your choice. The responses here ought to tell you that the answers you'd hoped for but didn't get (ie a rallying of the "el cheapo" troops to come to your defense) means you've come to a sight where even the members that can't ALWAYS afford "high end" everthing, do recognize that there are differences in quality in equipment and strive to employ the best they can afford and not employ eqipment based solely on how cheap it is because on any day "It'll do", and that most here believe largely "you get what you pay for" is a truism.

Since some of are comparing:

My current stash:

>Ruger M77, .243, Loopy VariX III 2.5-8 (My first rifle ever, given to me my father 20+ years ago...now wears a tupperware stock because the original broke and it originally wore a Vari XII 2-7)

>Rem. M700SS, .280Rem, Zeiss Diavari 3-9, Pillar/glass bedded, chryo treated...full accurizing treatment short of re-bbling. (This is my everyday field gun and with the right handloads shoots one hole groups day in and out)

>Rem M700CDL, .280Rem, Loopie VariX II 3-9, Glass bedded, some polishing, re-cut target crown.

>Steyr SBS, 7mmRM, Zeiss Conquest 3.5-10, no extra work. (The most accurate gun I currently own)

>Custom Mauser 98, 30-06, Loopy VXII 2-7

There have been a few others come and go...all along the same theme as above.

Also:

>Springfield 1911 Custom .45ACP

>Winchester Model 50, 20ga (a gift from my grandfather 30+ years ago)

Dam 280 that post nearly filled this page out......Why don't you tell us how you realy feel........

montanaman ,i am a contractor and own many tools (too many really) and buy good tools for safety reasons mostly,but i've seen to many hunters spend thousands of dollars thinking it well help me kill an animal. they coulda save a bundle and did the same thing,if they would just learn the gun and thereself is capable of.

i didn't say i don't own any high priced guns,i'm saying you don't have to spend a fortune to hunt.

280rem ,just how must are you willing to wager? i see more high priced guns in a week then most will see in a lifetime. i also out shoot 90% of them weekly with my cheap setup's.

and i guess your 5900plus posts here makes you the expert ,lol

You outshoot guns? Really? Look dude, maybe you didn't read it...run your cheap rigs if that makes you feel good! I don't care how good a shot you are...your post was about equipment. But thats a standard bait and switch tactic used to justify cheap equipment. The old "field accuracy vs. bench accuracy" argument is a big one too. I'll wager you this and guarentee I'll win. Your cheap rigs don't make you a better shot!

Show me some 300 yard groups like these and then we'll talk....








And they were shot with this not so cheap rig



and that same rig took these 2 Antelpe one at 280 yards and the Doe at 777 yards one shot each





Now show a few El Cheapo kills and give the details........

I buy the rifles I want to buy, and I hunt with the rifles I want to hunt with, pure and simple, and with or without anyone else's approval. If someone wants to set his own rifle budget and stay within those boundries, and that's cool with me.

I'll do the same............

AD

I doubt that!
srwshooter.......you can have your cheap crap! been there done that, will NEVER go back!
I'll stick with my Rem titanium's, Leupold's, Swarovski's, and other high doller stuff....and guarantee you could not outshoot me.
I think others will agree with me that "you get what you pay for" and by darn I'm getting the high doller stuff because it is simply better.

+1

OK guys, some of you have made some very good points and I hpoe those of you that spent an above average amount of $$$$$$$$ on your rifle did so in the quest for accuracy rather than braggin' rights.

For those of you wishing to gain more accuracy out of your rig let me offer to you the gunsmith below.

http://www.benchrest.com/hammonds/index.html

Weather you are looking for a simple tune up for your factory gun or are on a quest for the extreme in accuracy Clarence Hammonds will deliver the goods.

I could tellya a story about the time he was next to one of the biggest names in the hunting rifle industry at a large show.Clarences' targets were vastly superior to the other guys and he DID NOT like having his booth so close to his.BTW his work is less than half of the other guys.

His guns hold over 30 world records and that doesn't hurt either.