Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire The Mormon Movie

Nah - using religion as an excuse for (whatever) is what folks are mostly good at.

"BTW - I can forgive the firearm goofs if the story line is predominantly correct."

Anybody with a modicum of sense can go to the library and get a book on firearms and see exactly which ones were in use during a given period, for the most part, by eliminating those which hadn't been invented yet.

OTOH what happened at Mountain Meadows required a great deal of research to uncover and then is based very much on the eyewitness testimony of one participant and disregarding the same testimony of others-both sides being false. Both sides are very far from the incident timewise.

Point being: When they can't even get the obvious correct, how can they be expected to get that correct that takes a lot of research as well as some conclusions from the research?

No offense Birdwatcher, I'm sure it's a fine movie.

Do we even want to get into how many Mormons were killed by good God fearing folks before they drove the Mormons West?

Ethan - the story doesn't revolve around firearms. Few in Hollywood are likely to devote much time on the issue of period firearms correctness. Having an incorrect gun, in this case, takes nothing away from the story.

As far as the debatable history of it, well, there's nothing new there. At least this story is based on an eye-witness account, and not fabricated out of pieces of nothing.

seems like BW mentioned that was part of the story line. In any case, as far as I can tell, that bit of history has never been denied.

I don't think it's splitting hairs to expect accuracy. The folks in Hollywood in general don't let the truth get in the way of a good story, be it firearms or whether Brigham Young was involved. How can you believe one if the other is inaccurate when it's so easy to be accurate with all the firearms research so easily available today?

They could just put a line in the credits that says, "Based on a true story." That would let them off the hook for any historically incorrect stuff. Apparently there were a bunch of people killed out there about that time . . . . maybe that's the truth of it. . . . . maybe it was a Mormon that ordered it . . . . so what? If the thing is entertaining, that is its worth. I never trust Hellywood to get ANYTHING 100% right.

Hell Ethan, those folks wouldn't know the difference in a Navy Colt, a 58 Remington, and a Colt 1911. Plus they never even suspect they could be wrong.....look at their politics.

I'm a Baptist, but not a Klansman

Mike

I think it does. It tells me whoever was doing this pays little attention to historical detail, in getting period guns wrong, and little attention to detail at all, if the actors guns were changing during a firefight.
The rare movie that gets the weapons right or a real swordfight always impresses me and lends itself to overall believability.
My alltime favorite war movie is Breaker Morant , it's worth a look for military accuracy, but watch it alone the first time so nobody sees you crying at the end

Another primary source that may interest some of you is this book, Tending The Talking Wire. Talk about a book a lot of people have tried to burn, hide, etc. It's a religious Quaker's, Hervey Johnson, who was stationed at Ft. Laramie and some of it's outposts from 1863-1866, letters to his family back East. One of his duties was helping people escape from Utah, who had become more "enlightened" after their arrival there, and didn't want to stay.

This is has little to do with the LDS church today, but is history. History doesn't have a morel or a plot, it just is what happened.

Me too, but I have some Kinsmen!

And I come from a real strange klan - - - no wait! A strange CLAN!

Hey thanks for the book idea, Amazon is just too simple, one click shopping. ONE CLICK and I spent eight bucks.

I used to read and suggest books for the Fort Laramie Historical Association's bookstore at the Fort. I think that I have read everything on their shelves, and that one has got to be one of my favorites. I hope you enjoy it.

Just in time, I'm wrapping up my current Mil History book now, Amazon is great about shipping and i should have it in three days.

Birdwatcher,

Thanks for the review and the recommendation. After reading your post this morning, I took Momma by the hand and led her to the car. We made it to town in time for the noon showing.

I found the movie very poignant. The love story was quite moving and tragic. The cinematography was excellent. And the entire production was of exceeding high quality.

Some have mentioned a problem with the historical accuracy of the firearms used in the movie. I have to admit to not enough knowledge of blackpowder handguns to notice the discrepancies. I noticed the revolvers featured percussion caps, and blew smoke clouds. As far as I knew they were accurate for the time.

Heck, I was more concerned that some of the roan horses might have had apaloosa blood in their pedigree. And the boy breaking the crazy wild stallion in a single day was a bit over the top, but hey, anything to impress that sweet little freckled blond girl.

This is the first time I have been in a theater in about five years, and well worth the trip. I'll be looking for the DVD to purchase.

With respect to the period accuracy, I have become especially interested in the decades before the war between the States because so much of Texas history happened then, and the 1850's in a real sense was just about very end of the muzzleloader period, as in new technologies being developed.

For instance power horns, a field accoutrement centuries old, still being carried, yet carried here alongside Colt's revolvers (and in the holsters they looked to be period-appropriate Navy Colts, which I noted with approval.

It was only when they pulled them out and fired them that they turned out to be brass-framed. If I had the movie I'm pretty sure there's enough close-ups to tell if they're .44 or .36, many less accurate modern repro's being "51 Navy Colts" in historically inaccurate .44 cal on account of most folks prefer that caliber (IIRC some of these are even NSSA approved).

I would be interested to know if the revolvers actually fired in the movie are indeed cap and ball (there's a couple of close ups but I was too busy watching the action), in a glipse I had I got the impression that it was a cartridge-firing cylinder, presumably firing movie blanks (a whole lot easier for multiple takes I'd imagine).

I will say that the movie was likely shot on a limited budget, really there is only two sets; the wagon train and the Bishop's farm, and these shot from limited angles, the same being true of the outdoor shots. If it WAS shot on a shoestring, that might explain the nearly ubiquitous brass-framed Navies, maybe they were all the same few guns.

Other than that, the longarms will keep a gun nut busy for a while, many are glimpsed, including the Bishops own rifle, and in one long aimed shot scene you can almost make out the stamp on the side of the barrel near the breech.

The black-clad Mormon Avengers are all carrying half-stock plains rifles with ornate brass trigger guards, I have a Pedersoli Tryon rifle myself and didn't see that one, but some here might recognize which particular repro outfit made 'em.

And Ethan, I disagree that the details of the firearms necessarily reflect the accuracy of the plot, like I said could be a limited budget and choices made where to scrimp. Certainly the clothing of the actors seemed to me to be spot-on.

As to the merits of the movie in general... when was the last movie you saw where the romantic leads were debating points of scripture and quoting Jesus, in scenes with dialogue that didn't seem forced at all?

Idaho... to paraphrase a line from "Braveheart"... Well, I'm glad you dinna get all dressed up fer nuthin'

Birdwatcher

Zane Gray's "Riders of the Purple Sage" gives a perspective not often seen to the conflicts with Mormons.

Movies and now fiction books are the ultimate source for historical facts?

I read Mein Kampf...all I ever need to know about the Jews! I know the real truth about the concentration camps, because I saw the film produced by the Third Reich about Theresienstadt called the Embellishment.

Hollywood movies and western fiction as final scource documents?! I've got a lot of beach front property here in Montana to sell you. I swear it's on the beach! I saw it in a movie and read about it in a novel!