Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Forest Service is clamping down on mis-use of ATV's

Dpole, this is a subject we agree on but I wasn't really responding to your post, just showing what "others" are saying on this topic. Interestingly, the Rocky Mountain News has been known as the more conservative of the Denver newspapers.

Photo of a 1400 yard trail hacked through non-motorized federal land to the backside of my property; to within 20 yards of my land. Through my property used to be the only way back there. Last year there were 5 or six ATVers in permanent stands back there during rifle season. Each stand had corn piles under them. Permanent stands are illegal there, as is baiting deer. Its one of my rules to not turn folks in, but they might meet a warden if they're there again this year.



----Doesn't look like much damage to me.You'd rather just whine about it rather then turn them in.

I thought I'd take a drive today for photo evidence for sledder. About 1/4 mile north of me on the "improved gravel road (summer only travel) is the state snowmobile crossing. No motorized vehicles, except snomobiles. The ATVers go around it on the right side, past the signs and the gate. Its pretty much like all the other gated roads around here. After the fall hunting seasons it will be obvious, as it will be eroded from the traffic. There are plenty of motorized trails, but the ATVers want it all.



---Looks to me like they need to close the trail down a little better.Even with them going around it once in a while,it looks to me like its still over grown with vegitation.So Where's the damage.

After driving past several old logging roads that are open to ATVs, the snowmobile trail crosses the improved road again. Clear ATV tracks down it.


----Yes,it clearly looks like very little damage has been done.We still haven't determined if its really closed. Arrows indicate an open trail everywhere I've ever ridden.


Another 1/4 mile and a couple of "open" logging roads, we begin to enter the "roadless area". Temporary logging roads here are slightly bermed and sometimes tree tops are added. Here is a recently (this summer) "closed" logging trail. It didn't take them long to go around the left side. I used to have a "remote" bear stand about three miles back in there, but since they closed the road to motorized vehicles, I can't drive my pickup back there, and being somewhat civilized, will not drive my ATV back there. So, now only the illegals get to hunt that far back. The reason you don't see a sign here is that it has been stolen, which is common.


Now we are back out on the improved forest road, which by the way is illegal to use an ATV on. But the guys openly burn around on these roads too, despite them being signed. Like I wrote, they don't care what the rules are. That covey of grouse in the road will be dust in a couple of weeks when Grouse season starts and the road hunters come out in force.


A couple hundred yards past the grouse, the improved road dead-ends and an ATV trail extends for a couple of miles into the bush. This is a routine place for bear "hunters" to camp
Look! They even got an old mattress afire and threw it off to the side. Thank god we got that 1/2 inch of rain on friday.



-----Yep,I always see atv's carrying around a [bleep] queen size tempur pedic on the rear rack.It really comes in handy for fire starter.

Keep in mind that all this illegal ATV use is within a couple of miles of my house, but its the same all over the county.


-----The hell you say.I'm sure glad you're the resident expert on how [bleep] is around the rest of the county.

The ATVs roar constantly past my house every weekend for much of the summer, and the road is closed to ATVs (federal forest road). The snowmobilers do it all winter (main state trail goes past me on the north side of the valley I live in). But I can keep my windows closed during the winter and don't hear them so much.

The city of Grand Marais (only town in the county) of 1000 people allows ATVs anywhere on the streets and the county is poised to allow them on the county roads. The sheriff openly states he won't stop someone on a county road, even though its illegal. And it looks like the State Snowmobile trail could soon be opened to them as well. Yup, that's right. Our county is proud to be becoming an "OHV destination." I'm really thrilled....really.


----Sounds like your sheriff is at least smart.

One of the sweetest ladies around is the secretary of the local ATV club (and editor of the local paper) and will not believe that anyone on an ATV would ever break the law. I guess I better get used to it.

Closing some trails and not others does not work, as the illegals will still use them. I'm afraid that larger and larger areas need to be off limits so enforcement can be effective.

---Ya,that'll solve the problem.You wouldn't want to enforce the laws they already have in place. That might actually solve the problem.

I live in one of the least developed parts of the state, but I have motorheads on machines around me most of the year. Anyway, why would anyone NOT UNDERSTAND THAT SOME OF US JUST WANT TO GET AWAY FROM ALL THAT ONCE IN A WHILE? [/quote]


------You could always move if you can't handle it. Seems like the majority want atv's in the area.

Why "majority", sledder? In reality, it's probably 20 or 30 guys screwing it up for everybody else, legal ATV'er included.

Why do you assume that every ATV rider is automatically good? Because it means more political power for you and yours?

-jeff

...and by the way, I could put together a slide show like that, easily, around the areas I hunt too. ATV tracks going around gates are so common that I hardly notice it anymore.

-jeff

I could make the same kind of pictures of the same ATV abuse here in S.E. Oklahoma, N.W. Ark, S.W. Ark & the area I hunt in Colorado.

Add Idaho to that list...

You mean a slide show of pictures that prove nothing and are most likely being portrayed out of context.Yes I believe you are capable of doing that.

I bet your seeing eye dog drives your ATV Sledder, Cause you aint got the brains too.

I haven't plowed through all of the posts here but I think the gist of opinion has come through. In my case the abuse of off road vehicles users (this started back around 1970 when "hunters" began running around the woods with cut down Volkswagens) resulted in my starting to fly in for my moose hunts in order to get away from these uncaring individuals.
I have no idea how much money this has cost me over the past 30 odd years to get away from these types. Before some one accuses me of it, I'm not rich. Another case of unseen consequences.
Personally I find the indiscriminate use of ATV's in the woods to be as annoying as the use of seadoos that people use to run around lakes disturbing all of the residents and fishermen.
If ATV's were properly muffled, driven at moderate speeds to a point where they could be parked and a hunt on foot could be started then probably a lot of us would not have too much concern about them. My impression is that the majority of the owners do not really want to hunt, they just want to go into the woods to operate their machines.
JMO, flame away.

Telling a guy to move off his property because he's tired of illegal, off-road ATV abuse?

Now that's what I call a well thought out, reasonable position. Keep it up sledder, you're winning converts right and left. Only thing is, they're not the converts you want.

I was trying to figure out why Pumpgun asked for the thread to be locked (seemed pretty tame by campfire standards) and now I know--guys like him who use their machines responsibly have got to be cringing every time they see that you've made another post.

But you go ahead with that disgusting attitude you have. Most everyone here already knows you are one of the low-lifes that behave badly and are ruining it for those of us who respectfully use their ATVs.

I live on a ranch in NM. Idiots on ATVs really destroy the land. They can leave scars that last for years and nothing causes erosion like ATVs. It's illegal to drive off road hunting, but nobody pays attention to that rule. One bowhunter last year was driving down a ridge and stopping every couple of hundred yards to bugle!! I assume his full camo outfit would keep the elk from seeing him perched on the ATV.

I've seen guys do that, only they were howling for wolves.

Here's a newspaper article about another "tree-hugging greenie" for you guys...

Rocky Mountain News (Denver, CO)
September 5, 2007 Wednesday, Final Edition

Longtime hunter shudders at more ATV use

BYLINE: Ed Dentry, Rocky Mountain News

After 58 years as a member of the National Rifle Association, Bill Sustrich has his dander up.

In fact, Sustrich, 80 - hunter, NRA Benefactor Member and a Life Member for more than half a century - is close to inciting other NRA members to mutiny.

The problem, he says, is the gun group's eagerness lately to sell out hunters and wildlife in favor of freewheeling motor access.

In particular, Sustrich is irked with NRA's opposition to preserving 20,000 acres of Bureau of Land Management land above the Arkansas River as Browns Canyon Wilderness.

Long under consideration for wilderness designation, the study area is rugged, rocky and steep, timbered with pinon and cedar. It hosts bears and mule deer year-round, elk in the winter.

With backing from Colorado's congressional delegation, widespread public support and the blessings of all three Chaffee County commissioners, the Browns Canyon Wilderness bill seemed to be on a roll in 2006.

But Congress turned a deaf ear after the NRA protested, saying ATVs should be allowed in the area as an aid to elderly and infirm hunters.

Sustrich, who owns Wagon Wheel Guest Ranch along the South Arkansas River, says he doesn't want to hear it.

"My feeling is, they need to be corrected," he said. "I want them to back away from this stupid stand they've taken.

"I'm going to stir up a hornet's nest."

He already has launched a buzz with a letter-writing campaign that has wrought support from senators Ken Salazar, Wayne Allard, conservation groups, area newspapers and dozens of local NRA members.

Sustrich's latest is an open letter rallying NRA's Colorado members to the cause of saving Browns Canyon from engine noise, wildlife disturbance and their own organization.

For a copy, e-mail him at bsustrichamigo.net

"I'm taking this on myself," said Sustrich, a lean octogenarian who wears an NRA ball cap - sometimes against his better judgment - and proudly displays his new knee braces.

"What it boils down to is back in Washington we have a bunch of ivory-tower types. They never go out and get their feet dirty.

"They listened to a couple ATV guys here locally who happened to be NRA members. It was slanted input, period. None of them ever came out and looked at the ground here."

Sustrich says he's fired up because he admires Browns Canyon and he's fed up with ATVs taking over the Earth.

"I'm doing this because I have been on the short end of the stick time and again when I've been out hunting," he said. "I've had these damn 4-wheelers running around me when I'm a mile-and-a-half back from the nearest road.

"They'll drive right up to me, hedge hogging over the damn timbers, and say, 'See anything?' "

Sustrich says what galls him most is the area already is replete with off-road access. Just north of the 20,000-acre wilderness study area, more than 100,000 acres are open to ATVs and dirt bikes.

"The wilderness area we are talking about is just a pimple compared to all the other areas that are open to ATVs and 4-wheelers of all kinds," he said.

"The thing is, they want everything. But if they get this one, it will be over my dead (body).

"I am going to get support on this come hell or high water."

Ya'll know how I feel about it.... I don't mind them on the same roads I drive my truck on to git back in there a ways, but off road I'm not for at all, save game retrieval I could be flexible on....

That being said I just got back from 2 weeks in AK with an older friend. We used ATVs to get back to where we were going, truck could have done the same. Once there we set up camp, it allowed us more comfortable gear than backpacking and as my friend cannot backpack anymore its important to use the ATV to get there. Hunting was all done on foot. Never got on the ATV till his game was down and then it was used to retrieve and back to the truck.

I"ve got no fault against older folks or handicap folks using them, and that being said, they generally have more sense also. Heck we give folks special permits etc... for "handicaps" and I'm all for that. I would hate to see my buddy sitting at home because he can no longer travel or retrieve game. Would not seem fair at all.

Just a pennies worth....

Jeff

Sledder

I can agree with you just a bit on some photos RE current IE at this time, damage, before seasons start etc....

But the point there isn't damage, its closed to ATV traffic!! Tons of land is open, that trail is closed. If I'd done like I've done here in TX(yes TX has public hunting land and a bunch of aholes on ATVS too...) and walked in a couple of hours before daylight on a closed road/trail and then get passed by an ATV right before light... well I"d hope you could understand just a tiny bit about that.

If I choose to hunt on areas not closed, I have no room to complain.

Jeff

Ahhhh....It's threads like this that make me miss Big Stick!

The NRA is a good gun rights organization, but kinda' suspect on hunting. Most of the NRA board and other poobah don't have a clue about western hunting.

Casey

Sometimes I wonder exactly what the NRA board has a clue about... never did have a clue on competitive shooting when we needed support...
But they do have their place!
Just not on an ATV driving past me....

It's a shame that a whole group has to be punished because of a few dumb a's can't obey the rules. I personally think atv's should not be allowed in some areas. I do own a atv but I never ride it where it's not supposed to be. I only use it to get game out, but I do not run over trees or dig ruts in the trails. I do hunt places were you have to walk in period.(no horses,trucks,atvs).