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mathman -
I understand what you are saying but without hard proof I have a very hard time accepting that the Weatherby is well behaved while the Rem Mag misbehaves badly.
The difference in twist rates (Modern Rugers use a 1:9.5 and I assume my 1982 model also does) may play a role but the Weatherby's are 1:10 so I'm not convinced. Freebore could also play a part but my Rugers tend to have lots of freebore (I often joke the bullets couldn't touch the lands with a stick, and I load to max length allowed by the magazine as a result).
There are no factors at play that could not have cropped up in testing other cartridges, at least none I'm aware of. Still, I don't believe there is anything about the Remington Mag that would cause different behavior than other, similar cartridges. But as I said before, I'm willing to listen.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I understand what you are saying but without hard proof I have a very hard time accepting that the Weatherby is well behaved while the Rem Mag misbehaves badly.
I don't think it's that extreme. I believe a truly touchy one is the 7mm RUM, but I can't point out a reference on that right now. I'll check in later if I've got any gas left in my tank after the football party I'm going to. 
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Campfire 'Bwana
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RaceTire: You may be able to sneak up on 68 RL22 with the 140. I've used that load a good deal in my rifles with no problem.When I hit 3200 with the 140, I stop, so long as everything seems OK. Some rifles give more; I don't worry about it if everything seems OK. I'm not surprised that Spencer barrel gives "bug-eyes" groups!  I'm about to start all over with a new Kreiger 24" 9 twist; we'll see what happens! First bullet I'll try is the 140 Accubond (Jeff......are you out there....listening....see this?........ 
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Mathman:This whole thing is sort of puzzling for sure, but here's the deal. Near as I can tell, if you work up a load in your own rifle, make it reasonable, and use it continuously; and accuracy and velocity are up to what the rifle should give, I don't think you'll have a problem. Over the years that's what I've done and I have frankly never blown a primer or had other indications of problems with the 7 Rem Mag, and wore out more than one barrel in the process.
Regardless of what cartridge gives it, a 160 7mm bullet at 3100 fps is a deadly open country load for a lot of big game here and abroad. And while maybe not quite in the class of a 180-30 at the same vel, it cuts a pretty big swath, and not many feet will seperate the animal hit with either IMO.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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RaceTire: You may be able to sneak up on 68 RL22 with the 140. I've run 70grs of R-22 with 140s @3300plus. No probs. Actually ran 70grs of R-22 with 150s @3250fps. Seemed a wee warm to me. 66grs of R-22 is juuuuuust right with my 160AB's @3080.
War Damn Eagle!
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Campfire Regular
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Any thoughts on Warren Page or Bob Hagel's experiences with the 7mm Magnums ?
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Campfire Tracker
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Having loaded for quite a few 7mm rem mag rifles,including four of my own,I found the cartridge to be just as consistent and predictable as most other cartridges.
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Well, here's the deal. Tomorrow I head to the range with 140g TSXs over H1000, H4831SC, H4350 and Retumbo. I'll be there all day and will have plenty of time to chrono the loads while letting the barrel cool between shots. If I find what I'm looking for I have some MRXs I'll use next.
I also have work-up loads for my .308 Win and .30-06 (both with 165g MRX, having done the preliminary work with TSXs). Tomorrow is a club Hunter sight-in Day and I'll be functioning as a Range Officer. There are usually plenty of periods where there are no other shooters and I have the range to myself, so shooting the loads should be no problem. Regardless, I plan to get there early and get some of the work done before anyone shows up.
Should be an interesting day, Hunter Sight-in Days always are.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Coyote: Post up the chronograph results. I gots to know..... 
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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280: Just checked my notes on my custom 7 mag ( a Len Brownell rifle built in the 70's; think the barrel is a 24" Douglas). 68 -RL22-140 Partition gave 3260.A friend called from NY yesterday. His Dakota with 24" Kreiger 9 twist gave in the high 2900's with 140 TSX and 67 RL22. I told him add more powder and watch the chronograph and other pressure signs; I'm guessing, like you said, he'll max out about 70 grains. Barrels really do vary a great deal, and 7 mags are not unique in this way.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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280: Just checked my notes on my custom 7 mag ( a Len Brownell rifle built in the 70's; think the barrel is a 24" Douglas). 68 -RL22-140 Partition gave 3260.A friend called from NY yesterday. His Dakota with 24" Kreiger 9 twist gave in the high 2900's with 140 TSX and 67 RL22. I told him add more powder and watch the chronograph and other pressure signs; I'm guessing, like you said, he'll max out about 70 grains. Barrels really do vary a great deal, and 7 mags are not unique in this way. Completely agree! My father had 2 custom .280s, though I can't recall the bbl makers...the top end loads were no where near what I can do in my factory remmy's...the tight chambers showed pressure signes early on. Or maybe the bbl was cut tighter...who knows?
War Damn Eagle!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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280: I very strongly suspect it is the barrels/throats,smoothness, dimensions,etc., each varying in the amount of resistance created to the bullets' passage.Have a Kreiger cut with a .285 groove diameter , if you really want to freak-out!
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Here�s the velocity results of today�s testing. Each powder test consisted of one load at each powder charge with 0.5g increments. None of the loads exceed published Weatherby data.
Please keep in mind my Ruger has a long throat � the numbers posted may not be safely achievable in every rifle.
7mm Rem Mag Federal brass
CCI 250
140g TSX
3228fps = 68.5g H4350, unacceptable accuracy
3246fps = 73.0g H4831SC, good potential
3097fps = 75.0g Retumbo, excellent accuracy (but not the velocity I was looking for)
3303fps = 77.0g H1000, unacceptable accuracy
Note that accuracy refers to any 3-4 consecutive shots since each load was different by 0.5g. A further note: Previous tests indicated I could only get about 74.0g of any powder in the case to the bottom of the neck. The top two Retumbo loads pushed the bullet out a bit overnight. The top H1000 loads did not.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Coyote: Looks like the H4831 load to me; vel is where it should be and accuracy OK(?).
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire Tracker
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So 'Yote Hunter - I've long been using the 160 - 175 grain bullets from my 7mm Rem mags, with good results on critters from coyotes to elk.
Do you think that 140 Barnes TSX pushed to 3200+ fps would be a decent elk & black bear load? Or is the bullet too light for that? I went with the 175 Nosler Partition at about 2900 fps for my elk load some years ago.
Curious... Thanks, Guy
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Do you think that 140 Barnes TSX pushed to 3200+ fps would be a decent elk & black bear load? Or is the bullet too light for that? Two of my hunting partners use the 140gr tsx for elk and moose.They work at least as well as the 175gr partition,if not better.
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Campfire Ranger
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Guy-Im with Stubble on this for sure.
The last elk I took with a 140 out of my 7 Mashburn Super was @ 520 yds. The bull was broadside when I dropped the hammer.
He hit the turf so hard he bounced. The 140 TSX took out both fronts and exited.
I'd say it is plenty enough for elk.
For years I used the 160 and 175 Nozlers, I can see no difference between the lighter TSX's and the heavier Nozlers.
Good luck to ya!
Dober
"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
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Campfire 'Bwana
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That settles that!.........
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire Ranger
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The real differenc between the 7 rem and Weatherby is, I think, the freebore. I've built 3-4 7 Rem Mags with "long throats, that is, long enough that the 160 Nosler Partition was seated with its base even with the base of the neck. It takes a H&H-length magazine box to do this.By the way, ALL my costom barrels have been Douglas 9.5 twist, or Kreiger 9 twist.Loads weresimilar to the 7 Weatherby.
Set up this way, it was very easy to get 3130-3150 with a 160. Friends did the same with their rifles, so we shot thousands of rounds set up this way without a problem.I hunted with a rifle set up this way for about 10 years all across the west, no problem.
Federal emailed me in response to a similar question to say they load the 7 RemMag to 58,000; the WSM to 63,500 psi.
I think this pressure spike issue has nothing to do with the cartridge itself, but to the wide variation of chamber, throat, and barrel styles in the various rifles chambered to it after it came out.I say this because I have recorded chronograph data showing 2 different 7 Rem Mags giving velocities varying over 200 fps from the same ammo, same day, same everything except the barrel.I have found, for example that my Douglas barrels have given higher velocities with the same charges than the Kreigers do; said another way,it takes heavier charges in the Kreiger to hit the same velocity levels.
I have even built a couple of 7 RemMag barrels with "oversize" groove diameter,ie. 285 instead of 284 groove diameter.(I have done the same things with a number of 300 WM's and 270's)This actually worked very well, the barrel not being prone to touchy pressure increases as near as I could tell, and accuracy still excellent. The charges will. however, be a good deal heavier than what the manuals show.
I have generally used the cartridge with 140's at 3250-3300, and 160's at 3050-3100 without any incident.Don't know if this helps, but there it is. Bob, Your experience with long throated 7mm Rem's mirrors mine.....had 2, gave one away so now have one. Both Sakos. I use RL22 with 160 Noslers loaded to base of the neck and get 3150 FPS. The powder charge is over any manual I've seen but is completely compatible with my gun and I've used it for a long time w/o issue. I also have a 7mm Wby. on a Win action and it dupes the load and velocity. I also believe that "back in the day" with the 7mm Rem was introduced, there was a lot of variation in chambers & throats which led to a lot of pressure swings, hence reduced pressure specs. There is nothing intristic to the cartridge itself to cause pressure swings. Most factory stuff is really anemic; I've chronoed Fed. Premium 160 Noslers and they didn't break 2800 at the time I checked them......maybe they've adjusted more recently...........don't know since I've not checked any factory stuff lately. MM
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Campfire 'Bwana
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MM: I recently fired a bunch of 150 Fusion through a Hawkeye 7 Rem Mag, out to 500 yards. Zeroed 3" high at 100 (the way we old guys do it), the stuff was showing about 2 feet of drop at 500. I did not clock the stuff but would guess it to be at or a bit over 3000. The Federal 160 Partition has always clocked in the 2800's, while my handloads through a standard throat rifle were always 3000-3100.
"Long-throating" the 7 rem mag and 300 Win Mag was the work of guys like Bob Hagel, and John Wooters, who saw a benefit with the powders available back in the 80's.I stopped doing it because my original M70 custom 7 mag finally wore its' barrel in the early 90's.By then we had RL22, and other powders that allowed me to hit 3100 or so with a 160, so I called it good, and let 'er go at that.
With stuff like RL25, 7828, RL22,etc, getting 3250 w/140's, or 3100 with 160's is not a problem IME, with standard throats.The cartridge is as effective a moderate recoiling, open country load as it is possible to get, with a flatter trajectory than either the 30/06 or the 270. Even the newer, hotter 7mm's don't shade it by much. I hear that a lot of people are trading them in for newer, trendier creations.If they think they are buying more game-getting ability, they are kidding themselves. Have a great night.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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