Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Ruger - Controlled Round Feed?

Not! My MKII 77 stainles(boat paddle) handled .260 is a pushfeed. I thought Rugers were CRF? At any point in the cycle I can back the bolt and the shell stays where I stopped forward motion. I'm talkin 3/4's of the way closed and then some? Are all rugers like that? What about the new Hawkeyes? help me understand!

CRF will work even when the rifle is upside down. Push feed the cartridge will fall on the ground. Remington, savage and Sako, are generally all push feed. One downside to control feed is when inserting a cartridge in the chamber and then cycling the bolt causes the extractor to eventually break off. Age old arguement which is better. Never ending story.

CD:

Rugers need to be tuned to get the true CRF feature going.

It can and has been done.

That said, CRF v. PF is WAY overblown.

As in all things, the OPERATOR is the key.

Newbhies with Mausers have jammed cases.

Dogzapper has stopped a charge with a PUSH FEED SUCKS 700.

It worked well because HE WORKED IT WELL.

Nuff said.

BMT

Mk1 M77's and early Mk11 were push feed, but the Mk11,s have been CRF for a number of years now..As already mentioned, some CRF rifles need their timing tuned before the CRF function works properly..

or the extractor is already broken off. Did you get a good deal on it?

The M77 Mark IIs are CRF. Pre-mark II M77s are push-feed.

I currently own 3 mark IIs (CRF) in calibers 6.5x55, 7x57, and 280. They are all extremely smooth-feeding. The rim of the case feeds under the extractor when the bolt is pushed forward. The only force necessary when closing the bolt is that force acting against the striker spring during the final chambering of the cartridge. Considerable mechanical advantage is employed at that point, so very little effort is required.

I also currently own 3 pre-mark IIs (push feed) in calibers 7x57, 7mm Rem mag, and 35 Whelen, and have owned many others. These push-feed M77s feed reliably, but not as smoothly as the mark IIs. It takes a little more effort to turn downward the bolt handle on the push feeders because the downward stroke of the bolt handle is when the extractor snaps over the rim of the case. It works, but not as smoothly as the CRF mark IIs.

I consider both the mark II and the pre-mark II Ruger M77s among the best production hunting rifles ever made in America.

Hope this answers your question.
_

How do I know what year the gun was made?

Serial number!!

If it is chambered in 260 then it is not too old.

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/PS-SNH-RI-M77MarkII.html

Ok, Got it. It was born in 1999. That mean's it should or shouldn't be CRF?

If the safety is a sliding button on the tang, above the pistol grip, it is a pre-mark II push feeder. If the safety is up near the right side of the bolt shroud, it is a mark II CRF.

The bolt face on the push feeders completely surrounds the cartridge rim. The bottom half of the bolt face of the CRF rifles is cleared to allow the rounds to feed up under the extractor.

It shouldn't be too hard to tell the differences.
_

Until Ruger started making their own barrels (around 1990, IIRC) their accuracy was really erratic; some good some bad and some impossible to clean.

Basic design and build quality has always been good though, and I agree on that point.

MM

It won't with a M700--try it some time.......I didn't know it until somebody said you could do it 25 years ago. I promptly went home and cycled shells through a half dozen upside down M700's while on my back..........

Casey

Well there you go, I've learned something tonight.

My Ruger 77 Mk II in 280 is a "wanna be" CRF. It's CRF when the bolt has moved the cartridge about a 1/2" or so. That first 1/2" it's just pushing but for some reason, at around the 1/2" mark it "grabs" the cartridge. This doesn't bother me as I have no desire to hunt cape buffalo or man eating bears with my 280. I haven't had any problems with it feeding or extracting/ejecting so I leave it alone.

That is typical of CRF actions, even 98 Mausers: The cartridges does not pop up under the extractor IMMEDIATELY when the bolt moves forward. The round needs to move forward along the taper of the feed rails. In fact, only moving half an inch before the extractor engages is VERY fast for a CRF. Depending on the action and cartridge, sometimes the bolt has to move a couple inches forward before the rim slides up under the extractor.

The CRF feature was phased into the 77 after the Mark II started being made. Originally the Mark II just had the safety different than the tang-safety model, but it was still a push-feed.

I have owned a bunch of 77 Mark II CRF's, and all fed CRF-style except my present .204. Apparently the little round is just too small; it pops up ahead of the bolt and the exractor doesn't jump the rim until the round is chambered--just like any push-feed action. Despite this, it has fed rounds perfectly from the magazine ever since I bought it maybe 3 years ago.

The story about how push-feeds (and almost always, for some reason, the Rem. 700 is mentioned) are not able to feed upside-down has been disproven for many years now.

They will also feed when held sideways, and will generally feed cartridges of a much wider array in shape and length than most CRF actions. I once loaded the magazine of a Rem. 700 in .30-06 with a .300 RUM round, a .257 Roberts round, and a.30-40 Krag round. It fed them all--though obviously the .300 RUM would not go into the .30-06 chamber. But it went right up the feed ramp and partway into the chamber with no problem....

The big thing to remember about any of them, CRF or PF, is that if the bolt consistently chambers cartridges and ejects them, IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE.

Back when I first started using bolt-action rifles, in the Medium Dark Ages, appartently nobody knew the difference between CRF and PF, since it was almost never mentioned in magazine articles. Back then the Remington 700 was by far the most popular factory rifle, followed closely by the Ruger 77 tang-safety push-feed. The Winchester Model 70 had been a push-feed for several years. The Weatherby, Sako, etc. were all push-feeds. Yet somehow people went out and shot game, targets, etc., with no real hassle.

Then about 1990 Winchester brought back the CRF system in the Model 70. All of a sudden every article in every magazine was talking about CRF and how essential it was to Western civilization. Then Ruger turned the 77 into a CRF, and other companies such as Kimber brought out CRF actions, and now you apparently can't kill a whitetail or prairie dog without a CRF action--or at least not a charging whitetail or prairie dog.

All of which is one of the reasons I frequently hunt deer and prairie dogs with Ruger No. 1's.

JB

Mr. Mule Deer:
Thanks for the information. You sir, do tend towards enlightening writing.

As to stopping a charge, I�ve only been charged by a porcupine so far. It�s a long story, but I was able to ascertain that swift and proper placement of my cowboy hat to his upper torso was able to allow him to see things our way.

As to the Ruger #1 issue, I�m starting to believe that single shots are the only reliable controlled round feed!

Thanks again for the perspective.
Dwayne

The concept of CRF is largely misunderstood. It was designed for military use and when working properly it keeps the operator from double feeding the rifle. The real difference to me is you have to turn the bolt handle down to get the extrctor to grab the case with a push feed and you don't with the CRF.

I have hunted dangerous game in Africa with both PF and CRF rifles, and hunted with PHs also with both types of rifles. One Zim PH used a LH Remington M700 .458 Mag, and another had an older M70 also a .458 Mag. You can hunt with either variety, but you need to know your rifle and be able to handle events (such as loading while running after a Cape buff, or running the bolt while moving the rifle from one side of an obstruction to another.)

Rifle makers today are figuring how to modify their actions to claim controlled feed as Winchester did with their PF M70, converting it to a "Controlled Round Push Feed". Heck I just read some ad copy for the T/C Icon claiming that capability.

jim

Heck I'll add some more gack. I have at present:

Savage M110 (push feed)
Ruger M77 Mk II (1/2 inch or so CRF)
Winchester 1917 Enfield (CRF and cock on closing)

So I have three very different bolt guns. Heck one has a three position tang safety, one has a three position wing type (or whatever Ruger calls it), and one has a two posistion safety behind the bolt handle. I plan to hunt with all three this year and won't worry about a thing. I also have Remmy pump gun in '06 but that's a push feed (grinning)