Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting Leupold B&C reticle?

Exactly. So I zeroed for 300, 400 and let the 100-yard zero "float".

i'd be real curious to see how the BC reticle worked with my .358 Win. Any thoughts? Ideally, I'd end up with a 100, 200, 300, 350, and 400 yard reticle... but that sounds too good to be true!

-jeff

Oftentimes the reticle stadia dots, lines, points etc. won't add up to even hundred or 50 yd. intervals, but if u know the subtension (measurement) of the stadia u can calculate the zeros of each stadia, check at the range, and troubleshoot the system if necessary. Then an interpolative (between stadia) system can be calculated, and your set to go for those particular conditions. Sometimes u may have a rangefinding reticle that u may want to use for downrange zeroing such as the mil-dot. U may also have a custom reticle in a scope that was set up for a different trajectory, or some such scenario. U may also have a trajectory that's somewhat different then the stds. that the companies have designed for the reticle. This is usually what happens to me as i'm shooting VLD bullets out of handgun length barrels. One of my setups is the Leup. VH reticle on a Savage Striker in 243 WSSM shooting VLD's. That probably isn't even gonna come close to 1 of the stds. Leup. setup. Besides that i prefer to use the scope at it's highest power anyway instead of fiddling around with the scope's power ring.

Once my system is established then my range sticker that goes inside my Butler Creek scope cap cover will look something like this--

450-2.4-.8

Range, elevation, and windage reference in that order always. This is just the system that i have established for my rigs, and is one of several that can be chosen.

Jeff- I can't say for sure if the B&C would work with your 358 but I would sure as heck bet on it happening.

I work quite a bit with a couple of Burris with the BP's in it which is basically the same thing as the B&C.

I was out working with my lil 308 with it and found it very easy to set it to 500 yds with the BP.

And I've got a BP on my 338/06 and when I run the 250's @ 2500 I can very easily set the scope to work to 500 yds.

If you have to try getting the 358 set a couple of inches high at 100 and then go to 300 and 400 and see how it goes. You may end up massaging it a bit but I have no doubt you can make it happen to at least a 1/4 mile.

If this isn't making sense give me a call and I'll walk you thru it.

Dober

That makes perfect sense, Mark, thanks!

This will all be happening this winter; it was a wild-ass hair to put a new scope on my .338 so late in the game and I don't have the time/money/inclination to tempt fate by messing with any more of my main horses while crossing the stream!

Right now I have two systems going that are both giving me reliable hits on the 500-yard plate on days that are not windy. My 30-06 with 165-gn Accubonds at 2930 fps is set up with Stoney Point turret and that's been working well and reliably. Then there's the new B&C 2.5x8 on the .338. Expense aside (the SP turrets are cheap) I think I like the reticle better due to the lack of moving parts and possibility of accidentaly leaving the turret dialed to 500 yards and botching a 50-yard shot. In other words, the reticle is simpler. You told me this already some months ago, Mark!

I'm still flailing when there's significant wind or beyond 500 yards or so. Things just get wonky.

-jeff

Jeff-wind always makes things wonky in a hurry. Practice tells me when to drop the hammer and when not to. And shooting in good, bad and the ugly condtitions helps a lot with this as well.

For me I've found that practicing a lot at range in differing conditions keeps me knowing when to and when not to drop the hammer.

The other interesting thing you could try with the 358 is to sight it in at 400 with the proper plex and then come back to one hundred and see how far up you are.

For me the plexes/dotz/ B&C's will always be the tool for me over turrets for my serious hunting. They will always be quicker and for me when the chips are down way mucho the way to go.

I sent in a scope the other day to Leo to have them put on a M1 and it came back and didn't work. Now things like that can happen to anyone but the more moving parts a product has the more I worry.

I am not trying to turn this into a turret bashing and or a "I use turrets and they work for me" kind of thread either.

Keep at it, sounds like you're coming along well.

One of these days take a bud along and a clock. Set targets at 200, 300,400, 500 and take both your guns along (the B&C one and the turret one). Load each gun with 4 rounds and walk around. Have your bud time you and yell when you should hit it. Hit the ground and chamber a round and have at it, all for time.

Then, have him call out the ranges of the gongs he wants you to hit. Try something like this, 500, 300, 400 and then 200. Do it with both rigs and do it for time.

When you're done give me a call and tell me what the times were for both rigs.

IME this is a good drill as in hunting it can and does happen just like that. You can be set for a 200 yard shot and then bingo a 500 yarder comes up and you gonna reaquire the target, get on it and kill it RIGHT now.

If you spend some time with these drills you will come to some very interesting conclusions.

Later

Dober

It would be an interesting exercise.

I THINK, and i don't know this for a fact, but I think that there would not be much difference. It takes me a while to settle into a long shot at this point. The time to adjust the turret (zzzzip) would be part of the same time that I was using to get other things right. I think.

I don't use a bipod, so that's part of it.

In reality, my goal is not to be taking lots of long-range shots at game. If nothing else, I hunt alone, and in the country I hunt long shots are almost always gonna be cross-canyon... so getting to the spot the animal was at could be very, very tricky at best, without a spotter back at the shooting position. Especially on the west side of the mountains, where it's so dense and brushy.

I just want to be a viable 400, maybe 500 yard shooter since my rifles and cartridges are up to the task. I don't want to be the limiting factor. If a bull is standing there broadside at 450 yards and I have time to range him and get settled in... I want to be able to kill him. That's all very unlikely, but it can't hurt to be ready!

Mostly, it's a hoot!

You'd love my big DPMS AR-10, Mark. Super accurate and you can just hose the bullets out and have a good time. With the 6x18 scope I have on it it's really fun at longer ranges.

I do need to work up a heavy bullet load for it. I've been using the 155-gn Nosler J4.

-jeff

Oh yeah there would be a diff. The dot/plex/B&C shooter will kill mucho quicker. If you lived over this way a bit closer we could get together and do some shooting.

Put it this way, in the time it takes you to reclick you could already have lead in the air and the target taken out. I've done this lil exercise enough with enough peeps to know this to be true.

You may well come away a while from now and say, Dang Dober you were right.

Then again maybe not....grins

Dober

You probably are right, and once I see it I'll say it! Trust me. I'm not married to the idea that I know best or anything. Life is one big quest to learn more, and better, and faster, etc.

It's mostly that I know how SLOW I am to get comfortable and settled enough for a long shot! :-/

Hey, listed a half-mil property today! I am, indeed, the King of the FSBO's.

-jeff

Sounds like a good prop, PM me more info if you like when you have time.

And yepper no doubt you're the FYSBO king...grins

Congrats

Dober

IMHO if all you are gonna stretch it to is 500 yards, its much easier to learn the hash marks or whatever you are using at the time, and simply hold off and shoot. Wind starts to get interesting at times, but with the BC reticle types you can have a better shot at it, and lets face it, the wind is less critical up close at 400 or 500, stretch it out to further, then turrets are the only way to go, IMHO. At that point more things come into play as in temps, pressures, altitude and so on...so a more precise correction, IE the 400 yard stadia is not always true.

Jeff

Dober
I drew a South San Rafael Swell tag in Utah. (South of I-70 North of Hanksville)
Now if I can just learn to find the rams. At least I have started to find a few ewes.

Not the greatest picture. But here are a ewes skipping across the cliff faces. See the sheep in the lower portion of the photo.

Way cool country!

Thx for sharing

Dober

Oftentimes the simple plex reticle itself will work well as a ballistic reticle.

1 of my coyote fur hunting rigs is a .17 Mach IV XP-100 HG. It shoots the old 30 gr. Starke at around 3300 mv. I'm using the 4-12X Burris plex reticle that subtends (measures) 2.85 SMOA (shooter's minute of angle) according to the Burris website. When zeroed @ 225 (i think--don't have my notes with me now at work), the lower plex post tip is on at 340. When i run the ballistics program, i can then calculate the rest of the dope, i.e. if the 300 yd. zero is 1.6 MOA according to the ballistics program, then if i divide 1.6 by 2.85 i get 0.6. If the 10 mph windage is say 3.7, then 3.7/2.85 = 1.3. Now the entry for that part of the range sticker is--

300-0.6-1.3

...etc. This system allowed me to kill a dog in exactly those conditions 2 years ago. Having a system developed helps tremendously with LR shooting, IMO, and understanding this sytem allows any multi-stadia reticle to be zeroed for any trajectory really.

Another coyote rig i use some is a .223AI AR shooting the 65 JLK Low Drag @ 3050 mv. I LOVE the Rapid Reticle tree-type reticles. The scope i have on top of that rig is the 3-9X 22 Long Rifle rapid reticle that is "trajectory specific", but when adapted for the trajectory of my load out of this AR it's become 1 of my favorite coyote rigs to intermediate range (500 yds.) now.

That's absolutely true. While I primarily click these days, there's no denying a reticle is much faster in situations like this. Targets at different ranges, no contest.

The biggest advantage I see to big game hunting, is situations where you get into shooting position before you know the range. Your buddy yells the range and you can fire instantly without moving. Clicking, especially if you need to find a number on a dropchart first, just can't compete with that for speed. Having a usable reticle you're familiar with as an option is always a good thing.

Of course that doesn't apply to every situation. I hunt alone quite a bit. Since my binocs are my rangefinder, I already know the distance before I've even unslung the rifle. In this situation, a quick turn of the knob doesn't slow me down much. And depending upon the range, the added precision may be well worth it.

I guess this is one reason (precisely holding for windage is another) I'm not in the camp of "either-or." Either a turret with a regular duplex or a reticle without turrets. I want both. I practice with both so I can make use of whichever I feel is most appropriate when the time comes.

Both! Wow.

At my more moderate "long" ranges the reticle seems to be fine, as does the turret.

I'm gonna have to see some serious personal growth as a shooter before I'd even contemplate stretching beyond 500 yards. Put it this way- shooting at the same place, my steel plates course, with the same rest and rifle and load and so on, I will see a POI that is several FEET from the last time I shot up there at my 700-yard plate... and i can't tell why! I can't read the wind; no grass or wavy plants.

At 500 I still get hits from day to day... pretty much. 400, every time.

-jeff

Is this legal to hunt big game with? What does it weigh?

Welcome to the 'fire, hekin237!

It would be legal in Oregon, with a 5-round magazine or as a single shot. Box-fed semi's can only have a 5-rounder.

It's gotta weigh upwards of 15, 16 lbs with the scope and all. It's heavy. I don't see it as a hunting rifle. And I'm not planning on hunting with it, either.

It's friggin' cool though!

-jeff

Interesting. Did not know they weighed that much! Sure would make the guys in my old school hunting camp freak out if I told them I was going to use that on deer! Would be fun to take something like just for the reaction!! : )

They don't all weigh that much... this is the biggest one they make.

-jeff

As a turrets-or-bust kind of guy, I appreciate threads such as this one.

Very good posts.